SWF is stupidly OP and here is why!
I PLAY SWF TOO and I can understand that you only want to play with your Friend's or not want to go Solo queue
4 vs 1 with Voice comm's.
Even if you run 3 Slowdown Perk's and do play good they'll manage to beat the Killer which shouldn't be or almost not quiet that often.
Even if you do this above and do a 3 Gen Tactic they able to beat you.
But hey Dev's are too scared to nerf SWF? No wonder why Survivor threat Killer's like their Pet's lmao
So frustration is out, if you want to write something you are welcome.
Comments
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This post leaks bias.
there’s no way to punish the swat swf without punishing all the casuals who are just playing to have fun with their friends.
instead of just flat out nerfing it entirely
Rework/nerf OOO
buff weaker killers
buff solo surv so people dont feel compelled to only play swf so they dont get screwed over by terrible teammates
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I think it should be changed only when there is a group of 4 SWFs, so it doesn't affect solo mode
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It doesn't matter if it is SWAT squad or not. You have multiple advantages if you're using comm's, even if you're casual. That's a fact. The game is "balanced" to have 2k and 2 escapes, without the survivors knowing what each other are doing all the time
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There actually is a way: make SWF its own mode. Then you could apply rules like only one of each perk can be used in a game(no duplicates) in those lobbies.
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That's true. Huge difference between two buds hanging out and a four man ttv SWF with builds.
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A meaningless phrase; buff weaker killers. Buff solo. How?
You want Clown going 120% walk speed? Does he kick gens harderer? How will they not completely break the game? Lots of people can't deal with those "weak" killers.
They could easily buff all killers by adding a fatigue mechanic to running survivors. Do you want that?
Solo gets psychic powers to see the killer position and free bond and deja vu for everyone? Why have anything shrouded in mystery? Might as well have a waypoint marker for the hatch at the end too.
Face it. Swf ruins the feel and dread of going against the unknown. It's safety in a game where you're supposed to be getting hunted down. But it's also the main draw of the game as well. What a paradox.
Auras in general need a nerf, not just OoO.
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The game is not balanced around solos, killers win so much against them that if killers lose they assume it must be because an swf was in the game.
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"killers win so much against them that if killers lose they assume it must be because an swf was in the game"
This is me.
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Lmao entitled killer main saying swf is not how dbd is meant to be played. Sadly for you, killers don't make the rules on what survivors can and can't do. Of course weak killers can receive buffs and not break the game, that's why they're called weak bud. Auras have been in the game since the beginning. Get over your little agenda against them. Is a totem counter, kindred basekit, and seeing loadouts of other survivors in trial psychic powers? That's what swf have available to them so if you want balance you're going to have to deal with having these neat features available to solo survivors. Maybe for your sake there can be an option to turn these off and play regular blind solo. Of course other survivors will be able to see you did this and be able to dodge you.
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Or maybe penalizing people for playing with friends ever is a bad idea because it would kill the playerbase and not even fix the solo swf "gap". 2 or 3 swf is still stronger than 4 solos right?
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I think if, while in lobby (or maybe added to in-game HUD), making it so Survivors could see perk icons (not neccessarily the cooldown timer, just icons) of teammates would greatly buff solo queue players. A totem counter would be great too, especially now that Hex:Undying is an upcoming thing. Comms, while there's no real way around it, are the main thing that kills the horror aspect of this game though.
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First of all, forget the idea to nerf SWF. This will never happen and also should not be the case for obvious reasons.
In my opinion, solo players need a small buff. I suggest a nerfed version of kindred, which lasts for 10 seconds. This will help solo players to make a decission.
Said that, every solo survivor who is not super confortable yet should run kindred for his own safty.
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How do you know the game isn’t balanced around SWF? Because of the same thing that has been said since the beginning of the game?
I legit wanna know where you are getting this information.
Information sharing isn’t that strong when you can figure it out without comms. An experienced survivor WILL know totem spawn locations for instance.
Im not denying that it is a convenience but I do not agree that it is as overpowered as you claim it is.
The main reason solo sucks is because you have a lot of unreliable players who care more about self caring in the corner than working on gens or saving. Because if the majority of them did the right thing we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
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Tell us something we don't know yet.
Touch survivors while looking at SWF and you're gonna hurt the solo ones so bad they're gonna even quit and swat teams will become the most common.
Devs know that if they do such a move, they're gonna get a lot of hate, it's quite simply not worth it, all they have to do is make it so the survivors have more mandatory objectives and not everything is just M1 a gen.
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lol "Maining" a side. You insult me with such a pitiful argument in return.
Every killer is perfectly functional at a base level. They can equip every perk, and all have the same base rule of 2 hits = down. The variable here is how fast they get those two hits. With such a system in place, any small changes can have drastic consequences. That's why it's not simple.
There's also player behavior and creating a unique identity for said killer so that they don't overlap with other identities. Survivors are already just perk skins. Do we want the same for the only interesting mechanic in the game; which is killer powers?
Auras give away too much information with little in investment. They're too powerful. For both sides.
Totem counter is only a Noed counter. Literally no one cares about any other lasting effect totems could have. There's 3 totems left AND ONE COULD BE DEVOUR HOPE! Yeah no, your gate bm counter can go ######### itself.
Kindred gives away too much information to be free. Killer position, and all your teammates locations? That's two free gens when you see the third going for the rescue.
Seeing others loadouts?....I'm fine with this. Why would I object?
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That's just a survivor nerf...how would that be received better?
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Or maybe making SWF changes will help the game to be more balanced.
If you want to play SWF you are supposed to have voice communication. Not changing SWF because there are people who play solo SWF is a very bad excuse.
2 SWF is fine.
3 SWF idk, that can be bad or good.
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Every killer is not functional at base level...powers are everything, instadowns and mobility completely outclass a small speed buff and reduced visibility by giving up your ability to attack.
Killer powers being the only interesting mechanic in game? Definitely not words of bias.
Aura perks are all considered useless by good players except of course OoO. I'd take their word over yours.
What's wrong with giving solos the tools to stop noed and that other new hex perk? Swf already have it, this just closes the gap and allows noed to have a consistent metric of balance. Wouldn't you love to see noed buffed?
Fine the kindred can be temporary, but again swf already have this info...
Yes why would you object to something that buffs only solos?
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There's not even an in game comms system...how in the hell does that indicate you're not allowed to play swf without comms? Maybe people enjoy not having to talk while playing but also want to squad up with people they know are half decent at the game. What's with this community and trying to enforce their personal imaginary rules?
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Man, there is no such thing as playing this game casually. Human nature means we want to win, and we will take any advatange we can in order to do so.
The people that claim to play this game casually still play to the best of their ability. This isnt like an RPG where you can play the game just for content, it's a pvp with very little content on both sides, winning is the only objective.
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Information sharing IS definitely strong bc you get Information without sacrificing a Perks lot and in the worst case it is for the WHOLE Team. They don't even need to have a Perk equipped for that. It is basically a 5th Perk.
Imagine or not but I play this game really often to even know without other's saying that SWF is OP(3-4 man squad) They give your position away, say other what you are doing right know (if he is camping or not) and all that WITHOUT to have a Perk equipped.
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Ok..
So according to your logic, A coordinated group of 4 SWF with voice chat should not be changed because there are also people who like to play solo SWF. What's with this community and trying to enforce their personal imaginary rules? :/
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That's exactly my logic, does it not make sense to you? You may need to check your bias and temporarily overcome it in order for it to make sense. Nice attempt at mocking me with that last sentence I guess, but it doesn't make any sense.
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Buffing killer in general has to be buffs that help advanced killer defeat advanced survivor. So it has to be a buff that wont hurt unexperienced players.
For example the Clown: Make him a 120% MMS killer would make him better on the top but also on the botton of the skill ladder. For the top it might be okay, but for the bottom not, they already struggle against the current version of clown.
This means it has to be something which does not affect base stats, but rather has to do something with skill. In our example the cCown, it should be something with his bottle throws. A unexperienced killer wont benefit from that because he is not that good yet (and wont hurt unexperienced survivors) but a good killer will benefit from it against good survivors.
To round this up just a few examples what i mean:
- When you directly hit a survivor with a bottle from 20 Meters, the survivor is exposed for 30 seconds.
- Survivors who are intoxicated suffer from a repair and healing penaltiy for 20 seconds.
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The fact that very few players using only 2 or 3 especific killers with especific builds can do something against a coordinated team, and even then struggle, says otherwise. Everyone knows that SWF have a huge advantage, it doesn't matter if there are SWF who are not that good, those who are at least decent can destroy the vast majority of players, just by using a mechanic that was not designed in the game. It's basically cheating.
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There's a term, M1 killer meaning powerless. Only real difference is base speed which is to account for their power use. Otherwise all 115% speed killers are perfectly capable of never using their powers.
Although, is there anything else in the game that so drastically changes a match than killer powers? It's bare frickin bones. You have gens and totems, and chase walls with an occasional wooden board to throw down. Strategy drastically changes between Plague and Myers. That's a fact.
Survivors are just skins. There's no difference between an Ace with every perk, and a Jeff with every perk gameplay-wise. No bias. FACTS.
Auras are useless. Hmm, I wonder what friend groups of people who survive together would say such a thing but still benefit from it?
Solo is solo. You go solo when you could not go solo, you get everything that comes with going with it. Whats so hard to understand that doing something that has an innate disadvantage to begin with will continue to have innate disadvantages and that you need to play differently? Be more aware? Make decisions that may not pay off?
If we're to believe the game is perfectly balanced at 2k, 2 escapes, then we also need to believe that you can't always win with 4ks and cant always escape with all survivors.
So where does the line get drawn? It feels like whining at times. Perfectly balance also means everything has a clear strategy to counter it but unclear by whether or not it'llget done. Noed isn't just do bones before it goes off. It can be "I seen these unlit bones light up and now I'll break them". Or "he has Noed and hooking the last guy, time to make my great escape". Both of which I've done without a crutch.
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You mean how wouldn't it be? Survivors are tired of the same objective over and over again, it's not a nerf at all, it's giving more diversity to survivor gameplay and ideally it means the killers will have a bit more time to breathe.
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That's all well and good for the Clown, but his main drawback is reloading the bottles. Getting a lucky hit from 20 meters away does what it already did? Alerts the survivor and allows them time to run away. And with add-ons it's just exposed and slow 100% of the time. That's still low on the skill ladder. Killers need to be looked at as a whole, add-ons included.
And what about the other killers like Pig or Trapper who already benefit from a powerful ability but have terrible RNG rolls at times that make it almost pointless? Where's the long range skill shots for them?
Yeah a gen debuff is a nice addition to his power. But it could also easily be a general killer debuff. Any injured survivor has a generator speed debuff. There, killer now has an advantage tied to their only goal. Would make healing a priority, also further distracting survivors.
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Or instead of swf being cheating, killers like making excuses for their losses. Which is more likely?
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The first one. As i said, SWF use mechanics outside of the game to have advantages
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115% killers are not capable of winning against good survivors without their powers. Killer powers are balance, and their power levels are vastly different atm. This illusion of m1 killers being playable is indicative of the absence of appreciation for the dbd competitive environment.
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How Killers think SWF with comms is most of the time:
"Okay where's the killer now?"
"90 degrees north. Converge on the gens for exactly 30 seconds. I'll let you know when he's headed my way!"
How SWF with comms actually is most of the time:
"I stunned the killer! Ha take that."
"Man this killer is stupid. Oh #########--i'm dead. I'm dead."
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See that works make too much sense and it’s been stated they don’t want to do that. Maybe because these swat swfs would have to go against a killer that’s prepared for the bs, and without that guarantee to bully the killer they’ll lose interest. All logic points to the fact that swf is so ridiculously game breaking that it needs its own mode with higher rewards. But the que times will likely be ridiculous because swfs are a dime a dozen and killers who want to actually deal with them are not so common. Which should point out just how imbalanced they are but hey nobody asked for logic.
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I doubt the devs are competent enough to implement a fun new objective. Whatever the case, more time on objectives means more viability for camping and if the objective doesn't get hate the increase in camping certainly will.
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And yet in the official discord the devs encourage use of these mechanics...the devs are cheating too?
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Its not about my examples, i only wanted to talk about the direction of how to buff a killer. In our Clowncase buff bottles so good hits are more rewarding. This is important so the ballance between [unexperienced killer vs unexperienced survivors] and [experienced killer vs experienced survivors] wont be interrupted.
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If that were the case then they could perfectly rework the hook timers among other things, there's no need to throw shade to the devs about it.
Regardless, this game will never fully achieve balanced since it's an assymetrical, so we can only hope for the best.
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That's not how it works...assymetricals don't all have secret rules that stop them from being balanced. The real problem is the community forming factions and neither ever feels satisfied, they will claim it isn't balanced when it actually is and when the devs try to cater to one side people on the other side and middle will be the ones calling imbalance. True balance can be achieved in asymmetricals, but it's unlikely that's how the community will recognize it.
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Im a killer and you just have to handle SWF differently. When its clear they're communicating, start with mind games that make them give each other bad information. Leave a chase to head towards a gen you know the others are working on, then double back. The chased guy relaxes and says "he's coming for you", both giving you a good opportunity to surprise the runner AND making the gen team scatter needlessly, often causing them to miss a skill check in their panic. You can also count on them to be more altruistic. You can almost walk away from a hook, count to 10, and walk back and catch them unhooking every time. Use their comms and comroderie against them. I get 2ks against swat at minimum with these tactics. I also run discordance and tinkerer usually so that I can constantly disrupt gen rushing.
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Being asymmetrical already means not balanced, it's going more for one side (the killer) than the other, it's supposed to be that way, the rest of what you mention is more reliant on the people than on what the game is in reality.
Whether you choose sides or not, or follow whatever rules are made up, it's entirely up to you, objectivity is needed for these things and catering one side over the other is not an acceptable idea.
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Assymetrical doesn't mean not balanced, it means disproportionate team sizes. One team is given few but strong members, the other is given many weak members. What about this implies inherent imbalance?
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All of these arguments about balancing both sides to each other are asinine. It’s about balancing the game to its core concept, that of a 1v4 game where the one is as strong as the four. And it sort of already is, up until swf is a thing. Swf breaks this game there’s no way around it.
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You are one person against four or viceversa, you cannot have a truly balanced experience, I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.
Truly equal balance would mean having all the options for both sides, and have the same amount of members, this is something you cannot achieve in an assymetrical game because it's not supposed to be like that.
This genre is one of the hardest simply because true balance does not exist and it's not meant to feel fair for the side with the most players, they're supposed to feel threatened simply by the other guy who's got everything else.
Regardless of what you change or do, the game remains the same, it should favor the person who's against the most, otherwise they would always lose with no chances to do anything about it.
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They also said that the game is balanced for 2k and 2 escapes, but you disregard that for...? Also, voice comm's make a ######### ton of aura reading perks obsolete, so you have more perks if you are in SWF.
Honest question, do you really think that SWF it's not broken? Or you just arguing for the sake of argument? I gave you reasons why I think it's broken, why do you think it's not broken?
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And yet they CAN give especific informations. Even if some players don't do it, those who do have a major advantage
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No you've got it wrong, killers are not supposed to be threatening to good survivors nor will they ever be. What's up with kilker mains and thinking killers need to be op?
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Actually they can't...it takes too long to relay and process the information before it becomes irrelevant.
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I'm not even a killer main and you're resorting to that word, you've got no arguments? 🤷♀️
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Swf is not broken because the info you get from comms isn't much better than the info you get from having map awareness.
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This is laughable incorrect. So so wrong.
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