Why was Ruin nerfed?
I don't know why I randomly started thinking about this but... I mostly play survivor and while it was annoying I don't understand what was so bad about it that it had to be nerfed? And what are your thoughts on said nerf?
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The ruin was nerfed because "it was used a lot". I think it's ridiculous.
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It was a rework not a nerf.Its a decent perk now but not as strong as pop rn.It has its uses but its no longer the best.
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It was nerfed because new players couldn't hit Greats and had trouble going against it. I do agree it was tough because when I started, I could barely hit them, and it just led to the other survivors sending messages telling me to quit and uninstall the game. I do like it's current effect, but the old one was better in operation. It actually slowed down gen progress, rather than the current one that needs them to be off the gen to regress it. It seems most perks that get changed these days share this pattern of catering to newer players.
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They should do the same with ds.I dont have any problem with the pek being used for real"anti tunnel" but if If I pull someone of the gen and they ds me its kinda bs.
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because it was overused, without even acknowledging the reason why it was so used in the first place...
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It was nerfd because like 95% of players couldnt reliably hit great skill checks for an entire gen.
Killers would get info from players missing skill checks then it would regress everytime you missed a great skill check.
Old ruin was by far the best anti gen rush perk there was.
There was no such thing as gen rushing because even if you brought in a tool box or a BNP, most of the time you werent going to hit all great skill checks all gen.
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The problem was the value you got with old ruin.You just put it in and it worked.I have over 550 hours and still cant hit greats lol.For pop yoi have to find,hit,down and hook a survivor and then walk to the gen and kick it.Ruin just worked.
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Doesn't this question get asked like every month? Still?
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Two reasons according to the devs:
- 80%+ of high rank killers used it
- It was too punishing for newbie survivors
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Good players would just do a gen normaly.They dont have a problem hittinf greates.
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It created rifts in team play. If the guy you were working with kept hitting only good skillchecks, the gen would still stop progress. Then you'd be forced to leave them and do your own gen because they're being a hinderance.
It was also incredibly easy to exploit. Paired with Huntresses lullaby and Unnerving Prescence, skillchecks were almost impossible leading to situations where the game was being taken hostage.
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Idk why dont they nerf ds then.Im sure 99% of puruple and below survivors have it.Almost every game 3 or 4 ds.
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Yeah but very few players could do a whole gen and hit all greats.
Mastering skill checks just comes with playing the game more.
Some players pick it up easily and some players struggle with them. Its an easy mechanic to master.
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Now the problem is barley anyone can hit greats cuz they dont need to.When they are seconds away from a completing a heal or a gen they just hit good skill check or miss lol.For me its tricky becouse ever since Silent Hill came my skillchecks were sometimes"laggy" even tho I have quite beffy pc.
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I rarely remember having games being held hostage over ruin, but i do remember going into games and not even touching gens.
My team would just straight attack totems right off the rip.
I wouldnt say the game was held hostage but games were definitely longer and you couldn't just spawn in and hold m1 on a gen and 4 minutes later all 5 gens are done.
Old ruin games would last like 20 minutes plus almost always because you would spend the first 5 minutes of a match searching for ruin and saving team mates because it just wasnt efficient to do a gen unless you knew you could hit greats every time.
Even then normally had a potato team mate who would miss them even if you hit them and then it would still regress every time.
Old ruin was fun, strong, and probably a little to OP against new players.
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People used to boast about making people quit with Doctor. It absolutely could take games hostage.
Killers used to also DC if Ruin got destroyed instantly like babies. They all used it and everyone got used to searching for totems first which led to hexes being weak as hell because people remembered their spawns looking for Ruin.
And again, you had instant hatred for someone who couldn't hit skillchecks when working together. Gen tapping was a sad workaround for dealing with it. It wasn't healthy for a team based game.
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I think the change allowed them to take a look at other factors of gen speed. Without it we most likely wouldn't have received toolbox nerfs, great skill check nerfs, and efficiency on gen nerfs. It also follows a trend with certain perks that are powerful requiring some input on behalf of the killer to make them work instead of them being passive.
Yeah there are passive perks but things like Whispers, Brutal Strength etc required the killer to be doing something. Ruin didn't. Say what you want about it but Ruin was an insidious perk that was never fitting in with other passive perks because you could afk and it still works.
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Since everybody is answering with their biases.
Ruin was reworked because it was used practically every killer match. The devs didn't want a perk that every single killed ran every single game. They also didn't want a perk that was so strong but passive, meaning the killers didn't have to work for the pressure it created. The perk itself only punished new survivors but did nothing to the survivors it was supposed to stop, the experienced survivors who knew how to get gens done because they knew how to hit the ruin skillchecks.
They changed the perk so that killers had to actually do something to get the perk to work (pushing survivors off of generators) and a perk that was consistent along all players.
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1) Bad killers carried by old ruin.
2) Corrupt, Pop, Ruin disgusting forever boosted Freddy's and Spirit's.
3) Overused, REALLY overused.
When was no ruin in the match, i knew that i'm going against a good killer.
Good killers never used old ruin.
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You may be right, actually. I can have a gen nearly finished, then go back to it for what doesn't even seem like a minute later and it's regressed completely.
Edit: And, you're not dealing with the ruin skill checks so people aren't going out of their way to look for it now. At least I don't, anyway.
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This question probably does get asked every month... Still... I definitely didn't think I was the first to ask.. but I kinda wanted to have my own discussion about it. I mean, if that's okay?💁♀️
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They nerfed ruin because the devs cater to new players. Instead of telling them to learn how to hit great skill checks, they lowered the bar. Then the gen rush got worse after they nerfed ruin. Literally a week after they nerfed ruin they nerfed tool boxes. That screams damage control. They forgot(or never realized) why ruin was used in 95% of matches. It's because survivors actually control the flow of the match. When they nerfed it and saw how fast gens were flying they nerfed tool boxes in a desperate attempt to keep the killers from "playing something else". The logic they gave to nerf ruin was also ridiculous. If we follow that same logic DS should have been reworked, but since survivors are the majority they won't ever hit them with the nerf hammer like they do to killers.
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Lmao okay. Not even close.
Can you pop a gen with ruin active? No.
And the most important one. Difficult skill checks? No.
I don't even care to cleanse the new ruin if some killer have it 1/10 games.
Only against good legion's, and Oni's.
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Yeah, uh, not really on console. Hitting "Great" skill-checks consistently is more about guesswork than actual timing especially when your TV is about 3m away and isn't overly large to begin with.
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Well, I guess effortless Slowdown (just equip a Perk) combined with Synergy with other Slowdown Perks. New Ruin is still a good Perk, but you have to be a good Killer to use it. And for me, new Ruin is more annoying to go against, because if I need to go for an Unhook, I am quite sure that my Gen is back to 0 when I return.
But I can totally understand that less experienced Survivors would have a hard time against Ruin AND PGTW. You struggle to do a Gen and then the Killer comes around and kicks 25% of it away. At least PGTW has some form of effort.
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Ruin was nerfed because it was it was not a good design. It was extremely oppressive at low ranks and all but useless at high ranks.
This game has a major shift around rank 6 or so. From rank 20 until rank 10, killers are very strong. There are exceptions to any of this, but most survivors still struggle with skill checks and the concept of looping. If old ruin was in play, it was almost a guaranteed 4k. No perk should guarantee so much dominance.
At rank 10 to 6, that changes some and balances out. But at higher ranks, Ruin was pure crap. Survivors at those ranks could hit the difficult checks 90% of the time. They would meme around if they missed one.
New Ruin is much more balanced. I was hesitant at first but grew to understand its purpose and value. It's simple, prioritize pushing survivors off of gens and it severely punishes them. The longer it lasts into the match, the more punishment it dishes out.
It is also why they changed emblems to not longer punish the killer for losing gens quickly.
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Because of low rank survivors, that is why everything in this game gets nerfed low rank players are always the problem. They refused to learn to hit skill checks.
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That's a lot of if's for me and the entire problem with the perk. I ran it three times in a row, got lerys, the game, and Hawkins. All three times it was gone in under a minute, all three were depips.
It's useless in the early game and rarely sees endgame, making it a complete trash perk.
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New players its wasaant such ability to always do great skill check everyone starts using and it was boring to go against and dont take any skill
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i feel like with the new killer hex perks that just came out that survivors might do totems again before gens just like old ruin.
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It’s not an an anti tunnel perk though, never has been. That’s something the community has come up with.
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Because it was unfun for newer survivors, the problem with that is that killer didnt get any compensation for such a massive nerf. also was used a lot but because of that reason devs needed to ask themselves why? why do killers use that perk so much? seems they didnt realize why. Sometiems i just wish if devs, at least some of them actually play against good 4 man and see why ruin didnt need to get nerfed but then you go to their streams or just see their accounts and they are devotion 1 or 2 and then you realize some stuff but it is what it is.
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They just forgot to increase the gen time to 120 seconds (for months now). But hey, new skins and new killers yaaay!
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first of all: Ruin didnt get "nerfed", it got reworked.
the reason for that rework was, that Ruin was a very inconsistent perk overall that was harshly punishing bad and inexperienced players for being inexperienced while not at all affecting high level survivors.
the new version is a lot more consistent and rewards the killer for pressuring survivors off of gens.
not only is it not any weaker than the previous version, but due to its now existing consistency its actually become a lot better in my opinion.
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It 100% got nerfed. It went from an incredibly useful early game slowdown to a worthless "late game" perk. I still can't say late game without cracking up laughing.
The dev's in their infinite wisdom are the ones that magnified this toxicity. The gen rush, tunnel you into the ground meta started after ruin.
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Because it was overused and required little player interaction to use. Unsurprisingly many people think that Ruin was vital to balancing the game, because it made their games at mid ranks easier, but in fact it did nothing to help killers at the highest level of play and was too RNG based to allow BHVR to make balance changes based on their stats. I wouldn't call the Ruin change a straight up nerf, because now it's much better at the highest level of play. I'd rather BHVR be able to make actual balance changes than just keep Ruin around forever.
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Ruin was nerfed because it had too much synergy with other gen slowdown perks, was too swingy, and often rewarded the killer for absolutely nothing. If a lot of skill checks appeared, it was extremely strong. If there weren't many skill checks, then it didn't do all that much. The re-work made it stronger , but requires you to push survivors off gens for it to work.
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It was nice being forced to 'git gud' but was just annoying and a massive f*ck you new players.
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that how it is but how the game is new player wont stay.
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Ruin back in the day was easily the most overrated perk in existance.
it wasnt nearly as usefull as many like to say, in fact it eigther blew up 10 seconds into the trial or the survivors just powered through it without much of a problem.
the only people old Ruin actually affected were inexperienced people, players you, at high level gameplay, would have beaten anyway.
besides that the entirety of Ruin was RNG based, from the totem spawn to the slillcheck mechanic. it was highly inconsistent - and it could also be avoided rather easily by gentapping.
At least in high level gameplay what you are looking for in your perk builds is consistency. old Ruin did not deliver in that aspect, which is why quite a few players dropped it from their builds and could still do fine, in fact i feel like i did a lot better after i dropped the perk. new Ruin is consistent, which makes it a lot more worth running than the old version. its effects no longer are bound to an easily avoidable RNG based mechanic and it can actively reward the killer for applying good pressure.
i wont deny that old Ruin was a great earlygame slow down - considering that it worked - while new Ruin isnt, but dont forget the Devs are working on a mechanic that is supposed to slow down earlygame. the data that allowed such a mechanic to exist was gained due to te Ruin rework by the way.
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Here's the important part. These are not in any particular order. But you only ever hear people quote #1. I promise #1 is not the only reason we changed Ruin; it's just one piece in the puzzle.
We took a close look at the perk to identify what makes it so frustrating to play against. Three key issues were identified:
- Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better.
- The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer.
- Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.
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Because survivor mains cried that they couldn't be bothered looking for totems.
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They would much rather just barrel yo the gen and gen rush.
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Couldn't most of those reasons be applied to other perks as well?
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I'd also like to point out that on the Switch due to it's unbelievably poor frame rate, that it was basically impossible to hit great skill checks even if you could do so on PC or PS4 without much issue. At least it was unbelievably poor at the start of the games life on Switch.
Personally while I recognize that Old Ruin was probably the strongest slow down perk period, and was just made even better with pop, I do like new ruin. It's extremely Underrated just because the old one was so strong. But as long as it's up, besides like one or two gens at the start you'll notice the survivors progress dwindle if you can apply pressure and keep them off the gens. If it hasn't been cleansed of course. And that's not that rare on certain maps like Lery's, The game, Hawkins, some of the Yamoaka maps etc. Basically anything that's newer or has been reworked. It can last a while even in red ranks. Slowing the game down tremendously even more so than the original ruin was in the long run.
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By that logic when are we seeing DS and unbreakable nerf
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The new ruin can still be destroyed in 10 seconds. No one can hit greats 100% of the time. Streamers like monto used it all the time, so it did work fine at higher levels. The dev's are worse than Congress when it comes to delivering what they promised and have it work properly, so you'll forgive me if I'm not holding my breath for the early game mechanic.
That's so not what everyone quotes. What everyone quotes is how those notes talked only of survivor fun, and of course the whole "it's an incredible late game perk", which insulted the intelligence of anyone that's played this game for more than 50 hours.
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That's the risk of all hex totems, but lets compare it to other hex totems:
Third Seal requires hits to do something
Devour Hope requires unhooks a distance from the killer and requires you to hit survivors to work
Huntress' Lullaby requires hooks to build tokens
Noed requires the end game and hits on survivors to be useful
Haunted Ground requires you to chase down survivors and hit them
Retribution requires the loss of a hex (and thus a perk) to have an effect to ease locating survivors
Thrill Of the Hunt is only useful to defend another totem or to use as a diversion
New Ruin means you have to push survivors off Gens for it to do something.
While old ruin would provide its benefit without any actions or sacrifices from the killer. You could stand AFK and the totem could still have a significant impact on the game, since it continued to do its job without the killer needing to do anything.
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"Gotta slow the game down...just a lil bit!" Yeah Monto did use it all the time, he also said that he thought it was a good change. Said it would seperate the potato killers and the good killers from each other, and he said that old ruin was a pretty brain dead perk. Not a knock against you, I just felt like mentioning Monto's reaction to Ruin being changed.
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I'll say it: I actually like current Ruin a lot better than the old one as a Killer.
Now, if only Hex totem spawns weren't such garbage, I might run Hexes more.
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