Demogorgon's Shred should apply Deep Wound
I don't think there is much reason to play Demogorgon while Pyramid Head exists since PH's ranged attack is just Shred that can hit through walls. Demogorgon is also a slightly below average killer imo. Otz also thinks he is a C tier killer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNwZmT3ei5M&t=3324s). I think he deserves some buff. Adding Deep Wound to Demogorgon's Shred would actually be really good because of Demogorgon's portals. He can Shred someone then use his portals to find another target. This way he can waste the time of multiple survivors. This change wouldn't make him stronger in chases but would help him buy more time so he can set up portals and doesn't get gen rushed.
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I think if a player kneels during a shread, Demo should sail past them. 😊
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No.
Not saying demogorgon doesn't need a buff, but I wouldn't support THIS buff.
Demogorgon isn't a hit and run Killer. So while this would certainly enable a different playstyle, it would not enhance his existing playstyle.
A more productive buff would be to make rat tail and rat liver basekit since those make his chase work and his portals almost twice as good, and then have deep wounds be one of the new addons effects
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I think the buff demo needs his portal buff and not his chase potential.
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Another big difference between pyramid heads ranged attack and demos shred is that pyramid heads attack actually has a significant travel time. Shred is almost instantaneous. In my opinion though adding deep wounds won't accomplish anything really. I'd rather not have another character reliant on such a bad mechanic. It could help him a little bit with game delay, but it's honestly not that hard to land and could end up being a bit too much.
I think instead they should get rid of the global teleport sound and make rat liver base kit. They also need to rework his add-ons to be more in line with plague and doctor. Almost all of his add-ons only have to do with portals and are practically useless. Also wouldn't mind if they nerfed the sound of his big interdimensional feet so that he can actually utilize undetectable or at least give it a smaller sound radius. I think they could also give him a similar add on to the one that Billy has that allows him to chainsaw straight through pallets and keep going (I was originally thinking it could be base-kit but it would probably be too powerful and would be better suited as an add-on). Another buff would be to allow him to teleport anywhere to any portal without without having to put one down first, kind of like Hag and her mint rag.
I think any kind of combination of those buffs would help Demo a lot.
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This is a buff to his portals. I mentioned the synergy with portals and deep wound in my thread.
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Deep wound is already an atrocious status effect that shouldn't be in the game. We don't need something else applying deep wound. Demo is also not a below-average killer, he's seriously underrated by most people on this forum because unlike most killers he actually requires some setup and practice to be good. He doesn't need any changes.
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I don't think the solution to buffing weaker killers is to give them deep wounds on their ability.
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I hear people looking for that buff a lot, but I don't like it. I don't think killers should be able to zone survivors to gain distance, but Demo could do just that if you made those part of his base kit. He'd still be easily loopable in some situations, like on very round loops, but in other loops, like shack or normal jungle gyms, he'd be extremely hard to counter. Because of how strong those add-ons are, I'd be more in favor of bumping their rarity quite a lot instead and also buffing some of his other add-ons to make them more useful.
When I get downed quickly as survivor, I want to feel like I got outplayed, or that either me or my teammates made a mistake that led to me going down fast. When I'm playing killer, I want to feel like I downed a survivor quickly because I made a good play. I don't want to feel like the chase is going to end quickly no matter what they do. There needs to be ample room for both sides to make a good play to influence the outcome of a chase. Being able to zone puts the outcome of the chase squarely in the killer's court. If you're not on the right tile, you need the killer to mess up or you're going down fast. That's just not a fun feeling.
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I disagree. Buffing his chase is not good enough. I mentioned in my thread that Pyramid Head's ranged attack is just Shred that can hit through walls. After making the changes you suggested, the same thing is still true: Pyramid Head's ranged attack is just a Shred that can hit through walls. Pyramid Head will always be picked over Demogorgon unless Shred is buffed to insanely op levels. This leaves only the option of buffing things other than Shred.
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No it's not. While they are comparable, Pyramid Heads is not a straight upgrade.
Pros for PH:
- Goes through walls
- Can move at 110% while held
Pros for Demogorgon:
- Can be charged twice as fast (usable after only 0.5 seconds instead of 1 second)
- Longer range (11 meters vs 8)
- Unreactable
- Shorter missed cooldown
- Faster catchup both on-hit and on-miss due to it being a mobility tool
- Breaks pallets
Of those benefits for Demogorgon, the unreactable part is the most important. While yes they can obviously make a play from when he starts charging, but once demo's power is charged the Survivor cannot react to him actually preforming the shred.
This means his power is a threat even if you aren't actually at a window or pallet yet, whereas Pyramid Heads attack is useless if the Survivor isn't in an animation due to how slow and telegraphed it is.
Demogorgon's shred being a movement ability rather than a ranged attack also matters, since if you attack a Survivor at range it covers the distance in addition to hitting them so you can get the 2nd hit faster. Pyramid Head however is very susceptible to a Survivor just holding W by comparison.
None of this is to say Demogorgons power is a straight upgrade and PH's advantages don't matter. Just that to say PH's power is a straight upgrade severely underestimates the importance of the details of shred and the importance of a power being reactable vs unreactable.
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While I am by no means opposed to buffing my boi demo, I don't see this doing much to help him. I think it would be a better idea if they made rat liver base kit, slightly buffed his portals, and redid his addons.
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I think we should take deathslingers deepwound (which makes no sense) and add it to demo. A monster shredding you with his claws vs some old man with a gimp leg shooting you with a rusty toothpick.
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I am curious how much Pyramid Head and Demogorgon you have actually played because many of the pros you mentioned for Demogorgon aren't actually advantages Pyramid Head doesn't have. I'll post reasons why when I get home in a few hours. I am on my phone right now. Anyway, when I say Punishment of the Damned is just Shred but better, what I mean is Punishment of the Damned can do what Shred can 60% of the time but the 40% advantage that Shred has is so severely outclassed by being able to hit through walls that it is almost never worth having Shred over Punishment of the Damned. I would gladly take Punishment of the Damned over Shred on Demogorgon any day.
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Pros for Demogorgon:
- Can be charged twice as fast (usable after only 0.5 seconds instead of 1 second)
- Longer range (11 meters vs 8)
- Unreactable
- Shorter missed cooldown
- Faster catchup both on-hit and on-miss due to it being a mobility tool
- Breaks pallets
- Demogorgon must charge for 0.65-1 second to be able to Shred, according to the Wiki. Charging longer results in higher Shred range. From experience, Demogorgon almost always has to charge for nearly max duration to hit a survivor, so the advantage here is negligible. The Shred range at 0.65 seconds is truly pitiful.
- Pyramid Head can run Burning Painting + Wax Doll to increase the range to 10.5 m. These 2 addons are literally staple on PH. I also believe that with these 2 addons PH's effective range is actually higher than Demogorgon. It is nearly impossible to hit a survivor at 11 m with Shred because at that point it is reactable and if they get hit, it's a massive mistake on the survivors side whereas PH can still get hits at 10.5 m due to being able to hit over windows and pallets due to guaranteed hits when survivors are in a locked animation.
- I am not entirely sure about this one because I find it extremely difficult to hit survivors in the open. Most of my Shred hits come when they are in a spot where they cannot turn or can only turn in 1 direction, similar to Pyramid Head. I will admit that at the short to medium range, this can guarantee you hits in some situation by holding the Shred and forcing survivors to run unoptimally.
- Point 4 and 5: only by 0.5 seconds. Imo, missing with PH and Demogorgon are similarly punishing overall. Missing with Demogorgon can be more punishing because it lunges you really far into the direction you aim, so if you miss at close or mid range, that extra distance you lunged creates significant distance for the survivor. Also there are some situations for PH, like in Midwich, where the survivor is trapped in a corner and literally cannot run even if you miss. This lets you just keep using Punishment of the Damned until you eventually hit. Demogorgon does have faster catch up on Shred hit but PH on average will get a much faster hit in a loop, so PH wins overall.
- Point 4
- Demogorgon being able to break pallets is not that much of a advantage because PH usually doesn't care about pallets. It is even advantageous to leave the pallet up because it gives you a guaranteed hit when the survivor vaults due to the locked animation and sound notification. Think of Nurse. If Nurse somehow had an ability to break dropped pallets, it would make absolutely no difference in how strong she was.
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I like your ideas, also the aura read (when you charge the shred) should work on all portal whether it’s active or not in my opinion.
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I think that Demo has the problem of being perfectly average. In chase he is basically a generic M1 killer that can cut certain loops short, or catch a survivor in the open quicker with his shred, and his portals are nice, but they take a similar amount of time to set up as trapper or hags traps, without nearly as much payoff.
I agree that in practices hands he can definitely take down a strong team, but most of the killer cast does it better.
I don’t think he needs any serious changes, but I do think that some very minor buffs would be nice if no other reason than to make him more popular and get more people to see the potential.
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