oh no the survivors are using Borrowed Time and I cant tunnel THEYRE SO TOXIC!!!
seriously? to me its laughable when I get the "always using meta perks" argument in post game chat but is it any wonder why these perks are meta?
BT constant campers and tunnelers so we have to keep each other safe
DS still with camps and tunnels watch out for yourself
DH oh no an exhaustion perk that doesnt help that much if youre a good killer
Im just saying that the complaints are annoying but more so its an excuse for them to BM or otherwise act toxic
NOTE: not all killers are saying this and not all killers complain but likewise not all survivors run meta perks. and all that aside most of the "meta" perks cant even be used by survivor if you play fair or am I wrong?
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I would day "If you cry about BT than don't camp" simple but effectiv.
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I agree with you the meta for both sides is influenced by what the other did. Killers cant accept this for some reason and say "crutch."
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More like 10 crutches, there are literally more second chance perks than you can actually equp, I'm surprised you're not asking for more slots, but only for suvivors.
Actual good survivors don't even need perks because the game heavily favors them already. Just got out of a game vs a legacy skinned SWF, the 3,000+ hour claudette talking ######### about how boring the match was.
Yea, you have more than 6x the playtime I do but are some how at the same rank. She had no perks, got more points than me despite 2 kills and nearly maxing most categories. The balance is #########. But it's not like this thread doesn't get posted 300 times a day or anything. Keep defending your OP EZ Mode, GG Survivor Mains.
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"and all that aside most of the "meta" perks cant even be used by survivor if you play fair or am I wrong?" - Ya, you're wrong. Many of the meta perks can be used to force bad plays on the Killer. Someone with DS or BT active can shove themselves in front of the Killer to protect someone without those perks active, denying a hit to the Killer that wasn't trying to tunnel. If it was DS and the Killer suspects as much, they leave them on the ground to avoid the back stab, and the Survivor gets up with Unbreakable and can save their DS for next time. Free real estate.
The issue with meta perks isn't what they do on Survivors that want to play the game to avoid the Killer and get work done. It's what they do on Survivors that want to push every possible use of those perks to bully and punish the Killer as much as possible. This game has a serious issue where low-skill and high-skill playstyles vary so drastically, it's essentially two different games that can't be balanced equally.
I'm not inherently against most meta perks, but I DO feel like SOME of them can be more finely tuned to take the edge off of them or make them less capable of trapping the Killer into bad plays. Likewise, I would love to see some of the NEVER EVER perks get buffed so we see more variety in higher tier builds.
DH is fine though. It's a skill perk. Completely fine with that.
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More than six times your hours brk I got almost 3k myself if you are under 1k I cant see your argument being valid survivors were op the game us more balanced without DS you are a bbn le to get freely tunneled.
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dude you ok?
likeI get the combo of different perks is annoying but like.... calm down? killers have plenty of comback perks too like pop or noed or bloodwarden. not to mention the strong early game perks like ruin and the plethora of tracking perks
Im just saying not to put me in the same ring as all those people when Im running bt plunders we gonna farm forever and botany
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I would argue that I almost never see BT used to counter camping or tunneling. It is ALMOST always used when the Killer has just started to walk away from the hook and another Survivor comes in to unsafely unhook the hooked Survivor. It doesn't counter camping, it simply facilitates unsafe and bad plays. Plays that would get you and the other Survivor killed if you didn't have the perk.
Change it so that it has a time and distance requirement. It could be the exact same conditions for when the Emblem penalty for camping kicks in.
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Well the counter to bt is not tunneling. But what happens when the person with bt bodyblocks you for going to the unhooker hm? Where is the counterplay with that?
DS and bt might be for tunneling but are easily abused. Specially in coordinated teams.
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a thought in agreement with your argument
maybe if some perks were incompatible so they cant both be equipped would that make it better? or will that not help? do you want to complain when people genrush and then complain when they do everything else because they dont wanna genrush
like dude I get it but honestly what do you expect? for the survivor to just let you down them or their friends? no theyre job is to survive in the same way its the killers job to kill. use the resources available but even still people are kinda.... dicks about it which is unfair
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so if the options are... take a hit with BT or let your partner go down you want the survivor to sacrifice their team? thats kinda entitled dontcha think?
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so when a killer is generally nearby but not camping I should still have to wait like 20 seconds to save because.............. why? as for the distance thing I mean..... terror radius required
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lets be civil and not insult each other okay? kinda uncalled for
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Well i mean if bt is supposed to be counter tunneling you shouldnt cry when you get tunneled because of bodyblocking.
Bodyblocking is litterly saying: come on kill me i am here.
Shorter: if you bodyblock with bt you deserve to be tunneled because you make yourself An easy target.
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Yes. The Killer shouldn't be punished because Survivors bum-rushed the hook. Nor should he be punished for walking away from the hook.
The only reason you would be against this change (imo) is if you actively use BT like this. My change counters camping, but it doesn't punish Killers for existing.
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Hit the BT guy and let him run off and mend somewhere, then continue chasing the unhooker? I mean that’s what I do but I run STBFL almost every game so it’s easy stacks for me.
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The only time I really see anyone having issues with BT is the body block which mind you is entirely deserved as that shouldn't be a thing.
Its also again an example of anti tunnel/camp tools being used for something other then anti tunnel/camp making them hated.
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@BillyBigBrainBoi dont feign ignorance we're all friends trying to have a conversation but indirectly calling someone a clown to insult someone is just plain rude
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"maybe if some perks were incompatible so they cant both be equipped would that make it better? or will that not help? do you want to complain when people genrush and then complain when they do everything else because they dont wanna genrush"
-I don't think the incompatibility idea really works in the current state of the game. The way perks currently work, the devs seem to want to allow as much mix and match as possible, which I entirely agree with. Let people make the builds they want to make. In the long run, and for the sake of build variety, it's a better choice to go through and find out what makes a perk over (or under) powered and adjust it accordingly.
"like dude I get it but honestly what do you expect? for the survivor to just let you down them or their friends? no theyre job is to survive in the same way its the killers job to kill. use the resources available but even still people are kinda.... dicks about it which is unfair"
-I totally expect people to play in the best way to give them an advantage and win. I have NO issue with that at all. My issue is that it's not high risk/high reward. With BT and DS as they are now, it's low risk/high reward. I take protection hits for people all the time. I body block and deny hooks by standing under them. I get it. I also play casually and don't do those things when I'm not feeling super cheeky. I would NEVER demand that players intentionally play badly or to a detriment in order to make things "fair". That's not the players job. It's the job of the GAME to make things fair, so when something is broken, I call it for what it is. NoED is garbage. Ebony Moris are garbage. Many perks can be exploited to be FAR more potent than they have any right to be. That's not the players fault, and I won't get on them for that... unless they run NoED. ######### NoED.
As for people being jerks, I hate that too. I don't teabag killers (unless they run NoED), and I use post-game to compliment everyone, or point out bad plays in a civil way. Unless they run NoED. ######### NoED.
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yea same with DS ok with BT as soon as I hooked someone they off the hook I didn't have time to get away from it and the unhooker is always someone who has DS I hooked like 40 to 50 sec ago,survivors use this perk not from being tunnel or camped but to abuse them.
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you are a [insert unknown gender] of honor and quality I salute you (I mean this genuinely cause I know I come off as disrespectful sometimes when I say this stuff)
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The only thing that I complain about BT is rushing unsafe unhooks and body blocking, other than that I know why BT is a good perk because of real campers.
If I wait out the 15 seconds I will be called a tunneler, if I go for the unhooker I will be called a camper, there is no win.
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examples of survivor entitlment
I see you in the right at this point but not if you complain about BT when you go after someone doin something stupid
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BT, DH is fine. Unbreakable and Soul Guard alone fine too.
DS is the problem that glues all second chances together. DS itself is also just 60s of beeing free to do anything you want. BM, teabag, bodyblock, hookrush, lockerjump, last gen "Stop tunneling"
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personal idea (might have heard it somewhere but dont remember) lower the time to 10/20/30 seconds but it doesnt go down while in chase but secondarily it deactivates DS from people if someone else is hooked
legitimately someone tell me if this is good bad decent or trash idea
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Toxic much. Ever consider the claud with 3000+ hours was maybe better instead of heavily favoring her?
And you can't consider every perk that alters normal gameplay "crutch" either. Sometimes it makes this repetitive game more fun.
I don't usually say this because I like to be respectful to killers because I know how hard it is for them but... GG EZ :P
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That could work, there has been a lot of ideas to improve DS and fix its many flaws. I'd welcome any change tbh, most importantly lockerjumping. Its just up to the devs to give it priority for a change. Instead of billys overheat for example.
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Unless I have stbfl in which case if I'm getting body blocked I'll get the free stack.
I have no "real" problems against BT, I use it when I play survivor (console scarred me because there were too many real campers).
I may say it out loud like "freaking BT" but I will not complain at the end game chat.
This is something I really don't get from my fellow killer mains, if you manage to injured the unhooker, why not go for him instead of actually tunneling, and before someone says "for efficiency" I understand but later on you will realize that most likely they have DS.
To the actual thing that I quoted you, I always assume everyone has BT so I always try to go for the unhooker.
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either something like what you suggested or make it infinite but it deactivates if you further the game by for example working on a gen or unhooking a teammate are the 2 suggested fixes I see most commonly, personally I find both would stop tunneling even more effectively than the current one does, while simultaneously removing the hyper aggressive playstyle that sometimes comes with it.
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Only bad killers complain about BT. DS on the other hand....
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If DH is not even that good against good killers, why would you run it?
Because it is good, even against good killers.
When I'm talking killer strats with people, especially new players, I always tell them they have to learn how to play around meta perks like the ones you mentioned.
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OH NO THE KILLER IS USING NOED AND I CAN'T FIND TOTEMS THEYRE SO TOXIC!!!
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Oh no, the survivor is saving their teammate immediately after they're hooked with BT, and while they might take a hit, they're still not able to be punished for what should be an unsafe, bad save because they're using BT!
Wow. That's crazy how a perk meant for one thing can be abused and you're not smart enough to understand it! Let me guess, DS is fine because any time you ever get hit with it for any reason whatsoever it's because you're tunneling? Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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I agree, but on the other hand, i'm criticized as a toxic noob for running meta perks like BBQ. Apparently i'm not allowed to get those good bloodpoints. I once got criticized for running mindbreaker, THe MoST bRoKeN ANnD UnFAiR pERk In ThE gAme BrO!
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Dead hard is the best perk in the game, hands down, and the good survivors know it. I would trade any killer perk in the game for dead hard. I would give ds as basekit if it meant I never saw dead hard again.
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BT: I pretty see that on many occasions, that you are not even 20m away and they unhook their friend. You will definitely go back, when you haven't spot another survivor. But because he had BT, he could do this unsafe unhook and will not get punished for it.
DS: I recently saw a wounded meg, unhooking a survivor just 5m away from me. She got downed obviously, but she had DS. You would never go for such a play without it. Again, no punishment for dumb play. Yes you can just follow the unhooked one, but guess what, meg had BT as well and again no punishment. And even if she had no BT and you down the unhooked survivor, it has a high chance he got DS as well and won't punished for the bad play of the other survivor.
DH: You can just use it to make it to a pallet / window and extend the chase and because this is the most used exhausten perk, you lose out of many seconds in certain games. 3/4 of killers are low pressure and that can cost you the game. It's just broken that you can use all three of them if you want.
Some even use unbreakable as well, so either you pick him up and get DS'ED or you don't pick him up and he uses unbreakable or just wait till someone pick him up.
It's just ridicoulus. The only skill survivor need is in looping and they ######### it up all the time and because of this perks they won't get punished. They have just to press m1 and do easy skill checks once in a while to do their objective.
Maybe everyone should be playing both sides until they talk about nerfing something. I play survivor and i don't use any 2nd chance perks and i am still in red ranks. So you don't need em.
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IMO killer's are not responsible for you wanting to run the meta, your running it because of your lack of skill!
My only problem with DS is the lack of risk the perk has and the fact that the perk can punish killers for playing fair!
My only problem with DH, is the simple fact that it spits in killer's faces and tell us '######### you for playing your cards right and forcing me to make a mistake' when killer's have to capitalize on survivor's mistakes to win a chase. No matter how right killer's play their card the perk gets survivor's out of jail and the way the perk is being used now by gaining distance for safety is literally resetting the killer's potential.
Play a little bit more killer and get a taste of your own medicine and you will see why killer's hate these perks!
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Yeah bt in the case of save the best for last, if the person is not the obsession, can lead to benefiting the killer. If it a normal killer and not someone like wraith, a sleeping survivor vs Freddy, ghostface, who has their power ready to deny it. That and even if the killer doesn't have save the best for last. The hit the survivor took, still forces them to mend. Wasting time mending at the very least if nothing else. While in the case of an Oni, that triggers a safe unhook, which allows them to start creating blood orbs again, which greatly benefits the Oni.
Which yeah, going with the idea survivors are decent [for there are some rather bad survivors out there, I seen a few go down due to not mending]. A normal basement save would go like this. Saver goes down in the basement, unhooks the person. Saver goes first, to take the hit in case the killer comes back or is nearby. Which going with the case the killer is fast or close enough to get back in time. They will most likely see the saver coming out of the basement first and hit them first. Than at that point, the two survivors will stick together or spread out, going to two different parts of the map. Well if they spread out, one could be going to a strong loop and the other heading to a dead zone. The easier target would be going after the one running into a dead zone. {gen placement might play a role in effecting choice as well but going to keep it simple as possible for now.] Which would lead to a hook trade or a slug, depending on who ran into the dead zone. [Unless it's five or four gens, than most killer I see rarely give a care about ds with that many gens left, rather see it as getting it out of the way, to not worry about it later. For ds is a bigger threat, the later it is used in a game, due to possibly denying the pressure or kill ,the killer badly needs to turn things around. ] Now if they stick together, yeah the killer most likely has freedom of choice as to which target he goes off. Which in that case, the best choice would be the unhooker. For unless you are say an Oni that snowball like crazy and just hook half the survivor team recently. Odds are the unhooker would be the safer choice and most logical choice to go after. For you most likely got a hit on them and are injured, have no ds and make them the safe choice to down and hook. That and in the case of certain killers, like ghostface. Well ghostface might want to 99% stalk the unhooked survivor and let them go, so they will waste time healing up and so when ghostface comes across them later, can make all that time spend healing, a waste of time. So there are many logical reasons to go after the saver. Sure ideally a killer would want a hook and a slug, for more pressure, yet going with the idea again of decent survivors. It would be more realistic, you will only get one or the other, not both.
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Imagine calling someone toxic for bringing in a perk. The word has really lost all meaning in the community.
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I mean, I run Bt with WGLF and Unbreakable and thinking about putting DS, although I don't like DS, crossplay forces me to do so but that's gonna be my perk build because I have to
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If my job as killer is to kill, then survivors cannot complain about tunneling or camping. My job is to kill you, not be friends with you.
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Can you stop being entitled for a sec? Survivor in solo q is just as hard as killer. And the op is right: meta perks wouldnt be meta if the other side didnt consistently do something. Ds wouldn't be meta if people wouldnt tunnel, bt would be worthless if people didn't camp. Don't call a side you don't play ez mode when its clear you don't know #########.
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Two things: it also shouldn't go down when slugged, and it should stun for 6 seconds, bc the drop animation takes one second now, so its only a four second stun. With 6, it'll be 5 like it's supposed to be.
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The only real change to BT that I feel would make it less abusable would be it only activates if the survivor your unhooking has been on hook for 10/20 seconds or something like that. It gives the killer a chance to move away so that, if it truly is a anti camping perk then the killer must be camping before it activates. I'm normally ok with it as is.
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It should just deactivate if you ain't gonna be chased after 30 seconds. Because survivor always say it's an anti-tunnel perk, there is no point to still have it after 30 seconds without a killer interaction.
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I had a DS idea that I posted in another thread, but since it came up here and this thread is hot thought I would get some feedback here too.
Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds.
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
- Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
- Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
- Interacting with another object, survivor, or with yourself, will deactivate Decisive Strike (This would include healing yourself or others, mending, doing objectives, sabotage, chests, disarming; sabotaging; or helping another survivor out of a bear trap; Jigsaw boxes, Snapping out of it, Pools of Devotion, and Waking up yourself or others, but would not include, Vaulting, Dropping a pallet, or escaping a bear trap.)
- When another survivor is hooked, Decisive Strike will be deactivated.
- Decisive Strike activates for half as long, 20/25/30 seconds, if activated after the exit gates are powered.
- Decisive Strike's timer will not decrease while in a chase.
Increases the odds of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
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I solo queue rank 8. Killer is harder rank 3. Look in a mirror before you call anyone entitled.
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SMH mindbreaker that's a dirty op perk what else you running let me guess dirty dirty monstrous shrine The only perk more busted and broken then mindloser.
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I'm literally a killer main and I'm rank one on both sides. Don't call me entitled when you think survivor is easy. You're a midrank survivor, so you probably go against bad killers. That doesn't mean that survivor is easy, that means you aren't facing competent people.
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Post like these is the reasons why im glad freddy exists
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Y pressing M1 is hard ok.
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