General Discussions
General Discussions
To the people that claims x killer has counterplay but can't do it themselves.
This is a double standard a major one. If I were to say as a survivor main billy is op without playing him and not even playing killer in general I would be attacked. But I see people say slinger had counterplay then tell me they arent good st survivor and cant preform it themselves.
That's all I have to say just a double standard I noticed.
Edit: if the dc penalty is removed I think we can close this case. No penalty it's an easy dodge against slinger, and ph, maybe spirit she isnt that bad if she of she doesnt have stridor of course.
Edit: thank you all the killer mains who commented on my post. It really helped show who is the majority of the forums it really helped prove my point!
Comments
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Beef has so many different ways you can cook it, yet meatballs are about the only thing I can make with it. Meatloaf, if I'm feeling risky. Pretty much the height of my cooking skill, for the moment.
Does that mean beef can't be prepared in any other fashion but how I prepare it?
The same principle applies here. A killer or perk combo will have counterplay, but your personal skill may not match that you're facing. I have good luck countering Nurse players, but a Trapper will see me dead in minutes, as I haven't made it a habit to look at the ground all that much.
It just comes down to skill vs skill. Starting out last year, I thought Old Freddy was disgustingly OP. It took awhile for me to figure out effect means of countering him, to the point where I won 7 out of 10 times. Again, just boils down to learning how to face what you aren't good at. Atm, Trapper is the bane of my existence. Doesn't mean he has no counterplay.
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You either made a good point or disproved the existence of steak, either way impressive.
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Every killer has counterplay but survivors don't deem Hiding to be fun so they won't do it.
The games that I lose hardest are the ones where survivors are hiding like crazy especially on killers like PH who has a big TR.
Fun is not considered when balancing a game, nor should it be.
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Beautiful.
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I have never seen that standard applied to survivors. They complain all day that spirit, freddy and billy (previously) are op, but never seen them play them.
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First why do you make a million of the same post a day about the exact same complaint
Secondly he has counterplay it’s called putting things between you and him like cars, fences, walls, pallets, etc while your team does gens because as a 4.4 he doesn’t have much map pressure especially when survivors spam ormond
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Taken from another thread:
"Nah I have seen many skilled killers get 4K without any tunneling. Its bad killers that think they have to sweat trough games and 4K at any cost. They just need to get better instead of relying on boring tactics."
You see this mentality spouted a lot by survivors. Yet you know that none of them can ever back up their words, playing killer at red ranks the way survivors want you to play is always going to end in a loss for you and an escape for them.
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There is no double standard. By playing a certain killer not only do you see their limitations, you will eventually encounter players who have the skill necessary to use their counters, thus experiencing those counters for yourself. By that very same standard, you don't need to be able to counter a certain killer to see other survivors doing it, so even if you lack the skill necessary to use those counters, you can still recognize that they exist and see what they are.
The beef analogy was spot-on (and made me hungry).
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Azame I agree with your views on the game but I think you're going a bit too in-your-face with it to people and it just comes off as condescending now.
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This dude talks down on anyone who disagrees with like they're ######### #########.
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What if, hear me out on this one, the counter to some killers is not looping.
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The funny thing is if I, as a self-admitted player and enjoyer of such killers, point out the lack of counterplay that I, as someone currently benefiting from the belief that there IS counterplay, have observed, then I am in fact not one who plays said aforementioned killers and am, in fact, a "filthy survivor main."
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There are 3 overall forms of counterplay in DBD: looping, stealth and holding W. One of these is fun for the whole family, one of these is fun for a small portion of the family, and one of these is just absolute cancer.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot number 4: Gens. Which, to be honest, shares the title of "cancer."
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yes but do you want to win or have fun. these two things are not mutually exclusive. why are we taking balancing ques from people who aren't going to bother to try something for the sake of "fun"
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do you want to have fun or win. These two things are not mutually exclusive. and if they are to you you need to learn to lose. Why are we taking balancing cues from people who don't want to try something different because "fun".
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You do realise that this is not, in fact, a competitive game and, as such, requires it to appeal to the widest range of players because, as we all know, there is some absulutely laughable crap that both sides can utilise.
Please take your competitive mindset back to the competitive gaming world. This is DBD, where losing is absolutely fun if you had an enjoyable experience because it is low stakes. However, amongst other things, killers with uncounterable chase mechanics are not actually "fun" for anyone but the killer and those rare masochists who call themselves "competitive gamers."
Also, the Devs do in fact take balancing tips from people that want to enjoy the game. This is something that they constantly reiterate in every balancing discussion or announcement.
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I have fun playing competitively, but I guess my fun doesn't count though. Also BHVR was rightfully clowned on for nerfing stuff due to fun it's a terrible excuse that now people use because the devs did. when almost all of us agree they don't know their game why are we taking balance advice from people who don't play the game!
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killers with uncounterable chase mechanics are not actually "fun" for anyone but the killer
When you say stuff like this, you make it sound like you don't think the killer's fun matters. In fact, when you automatically exclude and insult everyone who disagrees with your definition of fun, you make it sound like you only care about your fun.
If you don't play to win, you shouldn't care if you lose.
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You assume I don't know what I am talking about. I do. I main Deathslinger. He is fun for me to play. He is also an absolute unfun pain in the arse to go against and is genuinely quite boring, and I wouldn't mind the Devs making some form of change to make chases more interactive. There isn't a lot of fun in losing to a Deathslinger, because there wasn't much fun in the match. However, I genuinely enjoy the killer and he is quite challenging for me to play.
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Sadly, no. If you cannot enjoy a game outside of a competitive experience, DBD clearly isn't for you.
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WOW way to gatekeep the community entitled much. So because my definition of fun doesn't line up with yours I can't play the game okay I have been saving this for a special occasion ######### you stop telling other people how to enjoy the game. if there were separate lobbies this wouldn't be a problem.
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There is a fourth type of counter as well in the case of ranged killers like Deathslinger and Huntress: using terrain for cover to maximize the chance of a miss when they fire. Also you left out juking to increase rhe chance of a miss as well but that one applies to both melee and ranged attacks and generally is less reliable than the other types. There’s also a fifth subtler type which is understanding zoning to get into more favorable positions when chases are likely to happen in the first place.
Whether you think using terrain or zoning is “fun” is subjective. To me the question of where to run and where to be on the map is more interesting than the question of whether or not you can literally dodge an attack by watching for it to start. Dodging attacks is just reflexes and muscle memory built up over time, it’s not a thought process in the same way that planning loops and deciding when to duck or drop pallets or juke to cover is.
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You've been beating this horse for so long it's become fossilised.
I understand it's annoying to die against a killer not knowing how to counter them, I understand it sucks when your team mates have IQ equal to their ranks, but making posts like doesn't help solve either issue.
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I didn't assume anything. I said what your statement looked like. You may not literally be saying that the killers' fun doesn't matter, but when you say something is "not fun for anyone but the killers" (paraphrasing) and then say the fact that it's not fun is why it needs to change, you are effectively working on the notion that their fun doesn't matter.
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Even Scott says in his videos that Deathslinger has counterplay, he just doesn’t enjoy it. And I seriously doubt you are claiming he isn’t an experienced player. There is a difference between the statements “you can’t dodge his shots” and “there is no counterplay to Deathslinger”. There are things you can do to increase the chances of a miss and those things are counterplays, it’s just not a black and white 100% chance to dodge an attack type of counter.
Also you don’t need to have great reflexes in a chase or understand every tile as a survivor to be able to comment on basic strategic principles. Obviously the more experience you have the subtler your insights can be but I don’t have to be a tweaked up teen literally dodging video game bullets to understand the principle of using cover to maximize the chance of a miss for example.
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No. That is an assumption that you are making, and an annoyingly straw-man one at that. Nowhere did I even imply that the killers fun doesn't matter, only that it matters that EVERYONE is having fun.
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Using cover like that isn't really counterplay to Slinger. That's exactly what he wants you to do, because it wastes time and closes the gap. Against Huntress, it's genuinely effective, but Slingers whole deal is forcing you to choose between eating a harpoon or getting stabbed by one at a slightly later point in time, since he can quickscope you and effectively constantly chase as a Huntress with a tiny, dangerous hatchet permanently fully wound.
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BHVR does take a lot of consideration into fun. Its why most killer nerfs were labeled as needed for "survivor fun"
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As is literally every survivor nerf for "killer fun", of which there have been and will continue to be much more of for obvious reasons.
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Do you think it's fun for killers to have their characters nerfed?
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That argument goes both ways. In fact, it applies more to survivors than killers: After all, they have historically had more broken toys, and arguably continue to have more even to this day.
Edit: You're looking at this from a "main" mindset, aren't you?
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It's a question, not an argument. The argument comes after you answer the question.
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Not quite true. A lot of the changes for survivor over the years have been because of insane gamebreaking abilities. Superfast healing, no window blocks so infinite vaults, Old flashlights. All of these were labeled as balance changes. Killers are the main group to get changed for "fun" not saying that nerfs arent deserved or anything, but wording and intent is important.
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Can you seriously not see what you just wrote? Why the hells do you think those "Game-breaking abilities" were nerfed? Because they were too enjoyable?
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Definitely enjoyable for the people abusing them, that's for sure.
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Grow up, please. Seriously, just grow up.
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You talk a lot about "assumptions", but you assumed my argument based on a question and replied to said assumed argument instead of actually answering a simple yes/no question and letting me reply. Now you insult me because I wouldn't have that.
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The double standard i have more of a problem with is that people want cookie cutter looping for all killers instead of adjusting to each killers individual powers
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That isn't a yes/no question and you know it: the truth about nerfs and changes is invariably complex and boiling it all down to a black and white answer is stupid and, yes, childish. You also deliberately misused the form of the word "argument," also a very immature thing to do. Am I insulting you? Yes. With alarming accuracy.
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You literally told me my way of playing the game is wrong. I think you need a mirror.
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It's easy to feign accuracy when you're making stuff up about other people. Try answering the actual question, you'll be surprised.
If someone else who shares MadLordJack's opinion wants to answer the question, I'm cool with that as well.
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IF he is indeed uncounterable, the kill statistics will show the devs they need to act. If the statistics doen´t show that, then maybe he isnt the unstoppable juggernaut.
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It depends, fun is very subjective. I used to play old Doctor I found him fun even if he was not a very strong Killer when they buffed him and made him stronger it lost all his appeal to me. If they were to revert all his changes it would be a huge nerf and I would enjoy playing Doctor again.
Some people enjoy stomping without any kind of oposition, some people enjoy having tougher challenges, so yes, some may enjoy having nerfs, this obviusly applies to Survivors, some will enjoy a harder challenge, others will want to escape without breaking a sweat.
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Well, that's definitely not the answer I was expecting and also blows my intended argument out of the water. With that said, I'm curious: do you think "fun" should be the main factor when deciding how to change the game?
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I'm not even trying to find out counterplay I'm just saying a double standard actually read it and just because you can make distance sometimes doesnt mean a good slinger wont aim and reel y ok y before you get that opportunity.
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Summed up well but I've given up nobody understands this forum is populated by people who favor the killer side more. I'm not even gonna reply to most of these comments it would be way to many people to argue with.
It still bugs me these same people cant even outplay the killer themself and have the audacity to claim otherwise. Still regardless of that fact they still somehow think they can tell me all about counterplay.
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How are we calling the open minded people saying just try things are being called close minded, some of us even agree with some of the nerfs being propped up by people. why are we trying to lump individuals in to groups when individuals find the collective statement x has no counterplay is both taking the easy road and patronizing to people who disagree with statement who play survivor.
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Fun should always be first before balancing s game otherwise what would the point be to play a game without having fun.
Why would you come back to a game you have no fun in?
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That looks really good you got my mouth watering
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