Otz Got 50 wins in a row with Hag and Legion.
So Otzdarva got 50 wins in a row with the only conditions for winning be that he kills 3 people. The last person escaping through hatch doesn't matter. For consistency he isn't using any add-ons.
I know Otz has a ridiculous number of hours in the game. But if the guy can get 50 wins in a row with Legion of all people, against all sorts of survivors. SWF, Strong Items, the full array of Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, Dead Hard, etc.
Maybe...just maybe killers are stronger than a lot of killer mains lead you to believe. I've heard the excuses of well those survivors were just potatoes, but Otz did like 100 games. I think just maybe...people need to stop blaming the game's balance so much when they lose the occasional game as killer. Because clearly at high levels, a killer can wreck if the person playing the killer is good. I think the biggest issue isn't really that the killer is just that much weaker than survivors. It's that the killer takes a lot more time to git gud than survivor.
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I've made it to Rank 1 playing nothing but Agitation, Iron Grasp, Mad Grit, and Surge. This is just anecdotal, but I have a feeling it has less to do with the strength of Killers and more to do with there being a decent amount of not good players out there.
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Well the question is how many games does one have to do before it isn't anecdotal? 100 games is a pretty decent sample size I'd say. But he plans on attempting it with all of the killers. We don't really have a way to determine something like this group of survivors are the best in the world, same for killer. We don't have a real way to say this is the best killer in the world. But I think it at least paints a pretty good picture that killers are not as weak as some killer mains try to make you believe.
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I still do think that at least Legion is not viable at the highest level of play, though that's just my opinion. I could imagine Otz getting a bit lucky with his teams and matches, simply because matchmaking is somewhat screwed at the moment. But I do agree that killers are now in a much better spot than they ever used to be, and that some people exaggerate heavily on how bad killers have it and on how defenseless killers are against fast gens.
I do think one reason as for why so many people still feel like gens go to fast is simply because killer mistakes are more punishing, especially early on, so a few mistakes may let survivors do gens real fast and lose you the game. And so people feel like gens go too fast, even though not making those few mistakes or getting outplayed a few times could have made the entire match progress and end much differently. Another reason is the lack on feedback when it comes to map pressure, as it's very hard to tell if you applied good map pressure and what you could have done better to maybe prevent the one or other gen to pop.
I'm not going to say that the game is perfectly balanced. I still do think that at the highest level of play, survivors do still have a greater chance of winning than killers do, but that of course depends on what killer and what map. But I agree that the game is in a pretty good spot balance wise at the moment, and that there certainly are a fair amount of maps that are now pretty well balanced with the gen times in mind, like Coal Tower, Wrecker's Yard, Badham maps or Dead Dawg Saloon, and there's a fair amount of really good killers that have a chance to deal with the fast gens in this game now as well.
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WimaTV got 383 escapes in a row.
Escapes/4Ks are just flexing rights. If you really want to prove something about one side, you should come up against the best of one side, so a really good killer and a really good survivor team.
I know for a fact that if Otz versed a really good survivor squad, he would not get a 4k. That's not because he's bad, otz is one of the best killers out there, he's just heavily limited by the games design.
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Killer is just more punishing to play I guess.
But let's not forget that No0b3 got 50+ escapes in a row with survivor.
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obligatory "the game is balanced because streamer 'proved' it" thread.
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I saw Noob3 getting his 50 escapes in a row, it was fun to watch. Though he did have a friend who was literally killing himself if it meant that Noob3 could escape. It was pretty entertaining though for sure. And yeah I think the biggest thing really is killer is harder to play at a higher level. Funnily enough at lower levels it's basically a cake walk. It just gets harder and harder as survivors level up.
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Hard agree: I'd say a good 99% of people who play this game parrot what others say. Even the people that tell others to think for themselves are parroting some other idea.
That said, this game is horribly balanced: Killers are underpowered against SWF but overpowered against soloQ.
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Probably more than 50.
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Good for Otz. Its not impossible to get even 100 wins and even 100+ 4Ks in a row with a mediocre killer. Check out Fungoose for example, he was at 117 4Ks with Plague, not even addons.
Maybe...just maybe killers are stronger than a lot of killer mains lead you to believe.
In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability. It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from the inability of people to recognize their lack of ability.
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So 50 with Legion with no add-ons, and 50 with Hag no add-ons. That's a 100. If he does all 20 killers, That's 1000, but I know a bunch of the killer mains won't be satisfied. With realizing that it's really just them that are playing poorly and they need to level up. When I do lose I tend to look at myself and try to figure out what I did wrong, while others try to blame the game and perks etc.
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It's not about this being matches coming from a streamer, but that it's 50 games in a row which is a fairly big sample size. If all you take from this post is only the typical "a streamer said or did so, so it has to be true", then you missed the point of this thread.
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I saw his first match, and I felt bad for the survivors when I saw he was running sloppy butcher and corrupt. Seeing a fellow Hag run Sloppy Butcher makes me sad, because it can be so painful as a survivor trying to do stealthy things against Hag. I don't agree with slow down perks in general, so in addition to Sloppy, I was a little disappointed to see Otz running Corrupt. He's a good enough killer that he doesn't need it.
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I'd hope someone that plays DBD for a living would be able to do that. Be odd if he didn't win most games. 😂
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This is the sort of thing you need to track thousands of games of between many, many people both Killer and Survivor. That sample size is just a drop in the bucket between the data that could be collected by, say, BHVR.
I've already had to explain this far too many times to people on the MTG Arena forums whenever they wanted to claim the shuffler was "rigged."
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noob3 did the same thing. Was that any explicatory about how the game worked? hell no, because he started from green ranks, bringing keys and old instas and with his friend literally sacrificing himself to let noob3 live.
same goes for this streak. Hag is known to be good, so I'm not that impressed, but we all know that killers win only because survivors make mistakes. Against the top cut survivors, you won't get a single hook. Which is why the streak (and whatever streak) is invalid (also rng, swf percentage, maps, gameplay., should be considered)
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Someone whos job it is to play DBD is great at the game? NOOOOOO. Is he really?
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Given the fact that OTZ is A PAID PROFESSIONAL its like comparing an average person's income to that of bill gates(The founder and CEO of MICROSOFT).
The comparison is delusional to even bring up and your only doing so to be able to speak ill of the other side.
Heck watch League of Legends pros play the objectively worst characters vs casuals and you will see the exact same thing.
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You mean someone who is one of the best and most knowledgable killers, who plays the game for a living, managed to get at least 3 kills every game? Especially now with all the boosted console players?
Wow. I'm so shocked, this revelation has now revealed and opened my eyes to how balanced a killer like Legion is. I can't believe I didn't realize Legion was secretly S tier this whole time.
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The mental gymnastics in this thread is gold-winning, for sure.
Y'all should be in the Olympics.
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Yet he just lost on the 20 streak for oni on a killer sided map.
I love watching him but there are also videos like the noob3 escapes, ussylis escapes, I believe ayrun has one as well not sure.
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Ain't nothin' mentally gymnastic about sample sizes. That's just statistics 101.
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"the killer takes a lot more time to git gud than survivor."
There you are absolutely right.
I wanted to also remember people with this comment that hey, legion is not a bad killer.
For example my favourite killers are doctor and legion. I'm not saying this because I just love legion, but because the fact that a killer is "strong" or "weak", doesn't mean that is "strong" or "weak" in your hands also.
For example, Otz. He is a really really good trapper. If I play trapper, I completely fail at my games.
For example me, If I play spirit, which is considered to be "strong", I completely fail. Because I'm a really bad spirit.
But, I play legion and doctor and I always have better performances, because I love them, I love the gameplay, I love their powers, so that influences a lot in games.
Never get discouraged about what's "strong" or "weak".
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Exactly. If you play well as either side, you will do well. People should stop blaming the devs for their failures and instead use simple logic...
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Legion is underrated on its own, sure, they dont have the most thrilling gameplay, but they possibly have the best non-RNG dependant stall in the game. I have shredded SWF teams with ruin surveillance endurance and spirit fury.
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So then use statistical methods to determine just how big of a sample size is needed before just talking about low sample sizes?
For the record: 50 games probably isn't quite enough, but "thousands and thousands" is just speculative posturing.
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You need a massive amount of games in order for it to be even a little reasonable. Thousands upon thousands is not an unreasonable request if the notion is understanding the balance of the game, considering how many players play the game.
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I think the game is pretty balanced as things stand. The only things I would change are :
- DS should deactivate if the Survivor works on an objective.
- Survivors should get a few things as basekit- Self Care should be one of them, opening up a slot for newer/weaker players to try out other perks without having to worry about healing. I mean it takes long enough to heal so Killers shouldn't be opposed to it, and they can run Botany to make it faster and not hinder their teammates. They should redesign the maps "glass bead" to also be base kit without a map so they can somewhat communicate with their teammates about important objectives. And a weaker version of Kindred that only reveals a Killer if they're literally face camping 1 yard from the hook.
- Matchmaking needs to be reworked once again. Maybe BeHavior needs to just hire outside help to get this taken care of. I think this is the biggest issue plaguing this game today.
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Impressive, but there is a reason that killers play nurse / spirit against a pro-squad and not legion, because he has no chance.
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Legion is considered the worst killer in the game by most dbd players for a good reason. He has no tool for downing survivors and relies on making good mind games and spreading survivors away from strong tiles. Consistently winning with Legion is a feat of skill and possibly the most challenging killer to attempt a challenge like this with.
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The shuffler is rigged, how else do I draw more copies of a specific cards than lands twice in a row? Stop trying to pretend WotC isn't a corrupt company willing to use every strategy at their disposal to make more money from mtga.
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Either way, killers have all the tools they need to succeed. How else would it be possible to win 100 games in a row as killer? It's not like you're facing the worst survivors dbd has to offer EVERY SINGLE GAME. Wow killers really will go to the furthest lengths in order to victimize themselves and tell a sob story.
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"With all the boosted console players."
Haha, FYI he got those win streaks BEFORE crossplay, just with you boosted PC players as survivors.
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Probably about 100,000 people play the game a day. Steam says about 40k, and I'm doubling and adding some to account for consoles.
To have a 95% confidence on a population of 100k, you need about 400 games.
Like I said, that's a far cry short of a massive amount of games.
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400 is not gonna cut it. You definitely need something in the thousands.
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This is just a comical reply. I get the point that you are trying to make here. We all aren't as good as we think we are and shouldn't base our decisions on another better players performance. But that is 150+ consecutive players (50 games * 3 kills min) that all died to Legion at high ranks. Those players didn't know who they were playing against. They were just average players (well if they were getting matched against rank 1 killer hopefully better than average). Sure, some of them might be goofing around or playing sub-optimally to finish challenges. But the vast majority were legitimately trying their best to escape. The point the OP is making is that if a player (any player) can play 50 consecutive games with Legion at rank 1 with no add ons and get at least 3 kills in each of those games then it isn't possible for the game to be as unbalanced against killers as many people on the forums would have you believe. Which is a legitimate point.
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I can't be going against that many good Survivors if I am able to win frequently in high ranks with a pure meme build.
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wima tv got like 350+ its not a flex i cant actually remember the last time i got an L its not that killers are op its just most survivors just suck ass
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Also, you forgot your "/s."
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Conclusion: The average Survivor is terrible at the game.
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Hm. I basicly said the same with different words.
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Just shows you how bad people are in solo queue usually and how overblown the "second chances" arguments are. The percentage of lobbies where it's an actual super strong SWF running meta effectively would be like much less than 1% probably.
Do you know how hard it would be for me to escape 50 games in a row solo without a key as a survivor? Yet there have been people who achieved like 250+ wins using mid to low tier killers.
Killer is legitimately easy-mode just farming bots for insane bloodpoint gains compared to surv, and now with crossplay the queue times are really good on PC.
Solo surv just continues to become less and less appealing, it seems. I'm glad I enjoy playing both sides.
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I mean common its otz
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Otz is a good player, but Zubat showed you can literally go rank 20-1 with 0 perks
Some Killers are obviously weaker than others, but its ultimately down to the player how the games go
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no, it's the opposite, the survivor players are just mostly bad. Otz gets dominated by sweat squads whenever he gets them.
This game is extremely survivor biased. It's quite disheartening to see players actually not understanding this, since it's an objective fact. No one that plays this game at a high level will tell you differently. There's a reason why the DBD tournament was just a joke.
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It stops being anecdotal when 100+ people each manage a 50+ win streak.
If ONE player can accomplish that, it's anecdotal. If MANY can accomplish it, then the killer is stronger than people think.
Call us again when you find 100 videos of these 50 win streaks.
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Not like it's really needed lol
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That doesn't disprove the viability of killers at all. Winning at high ranks with a meme build proves killer viability, whether or not you think survivors could be playing a little better in your games.
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I've seen enough people say something similar to that without sarcasm and then post, like, one screencap as evidence that I would disagree.
I can only speak anecdotally, so I know that my experiences definitely don't say much in the grand scheme of things. Sure, there are games where I have to definitely work for it, and there are games where I get rekt, but I definitely also have my share of games where I am genuinely questioning if some of them are even purple rank, let alone red rank.
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"Otz did this, Scott did that, tru3 the other"
Go do it yourself.
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