I know everyone is sick of these, but it has to be said: Why DS and NOED are both so disliked

Yes hello the 10 billionth thread on this, but a common thing I notice is that people who argue never really say WHY it's an issue other than 'OP'. To keep it simple I'll just list why DS is bad for killer and vice versa for survivor for NOED.

DS: The anti tunnel part works beautifully, the issue is the 59 second DS? What's 59 second DS? It's when a killer (like me) doesn't tunnel people and finds another injured person dong a gen and I down them... and get DSed after about 40 seconds of walking away. The issue here is that I chose not to tunnel the person off the hook, the reason DS was intended for, but still got struck by someone who still had their timer going. The problem is that the perk gives a minute of immunity, even if I did not tunnel you. Is DS OP? No. But when someone can still get it off, even if they were not tunneled or grabbed off a gen fully healthy and can still use it is the issue. Also DS + Unbreakable is a ridiculous combo, but it's why that's meta

For NOED: the surprise is the damn issue. NOED itself has the glaring issue of surprise.You don't expect a killer to have it, but playing around it is always an issue because the game doesn't tel you about it. I don;t see complaints about haunted grounds since it tells you that you are exposed. NOED gives no warning, which is why it feels so cheap. Also. running it can give the perception that if a killer did terribly all game they can be given sacrifices with just one perk because it can reward bad play as well. I know the argument of 'just do totems' but BHVR is now doing a much better job of hiding hexes, and if you're a solo player like me you have no idea if they are all cleansed or not, earning even if I break 3 there is still a chance my team mates hugged gens all game, like they should to win, but didn't do totems. Again, not calling it OP because I suffered through the non Hex totem version of NOED which was just beyond OP

These are not my sole opinions, nor will I say how to fix the perks because that derails the point f the topic: the reasons why I and many other people I've discussed this with dislike these perks. Not because they're OP, it's that one is being used in a way it wasn't meant to (I gen grab with Myers and still get DSed for not tunneling) and if a killer does bad all game suddenly, without warning, they get to get easy hooks.

I hope this post can help bridge the gap to both sides as to why these two are vilified and if I missed something or an issue YOU have with the perks, lemme know!