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Legion is ridiculously underrated
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This may be a bit of a hot take and i am not asking for him to be nerfed i actually like him but i think their is a misconception that he is a weak killer i think i rate him in the same league as Oni as i wouldn't put him at the top of the food chain like nurse but he is comfortably in the upper
1) Legion can get incredible easy first hits and can chain injure multiple survivors at a time and so effectively past the first hit you only need to hit once most of the time and even if they heal the time it buys is not really worth it as the state he can injure a survivor again is so fast.
2) If you want to slow down the game its incredibly easy as their are so many strong slowdown perks that work with him such as Dying Light, Pop and especially Ruin and Thanatophobia.
3) Even if his ability is limited by the fact that you cant really track while using it as you don't get to see scratch marks if your running BBQ witch you are don't lie we all want the BP and you want to get to a gen quickly you can cross most maps with decent pace. Killers like trapper, Ghostface and even some stronger killers like Executioner and depending on the situation Oni.
4) This is quite a minor point but the legion is short.
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facepalm 1 streamer made a video about it and now those threads come up.
Whats next? Nerf-Clown threads if someone makes a 50matches video? Just a reminder: This guys are not like the casual player you met in 99%+ of your games.
Edit: But to come to your points:
1- Every killer can get easy first hits. Its nothing special. Not even worth to mention, if you don't want to be hypocritical.
2- Slowdown Perks work with every killer.
3- Not everybody likes to run BBQ. But nice that something got picked up, even if not everyone is using it. Btw. it is imo stupid to use frenzy as travel abilitie because of the 5.000 years stun after it. Better you hold it ready for the rar situations, you need it.
4- With a big tr. There are even smaller killers in the game. I can just shake my head.
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I would agree that Legion is not THAT weak, but putting him in line with Oni is a little bit too much.
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If this is about otz...your comparing one of the best players around to pub players with 0 sense of a matchmaking system..legions limits are abundantly clear and his lack of chase is his undoing
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Legion is good at getting survivors injured and keeping them injured. The problem is good survivors don't give a damn about being injured. They'll just repair gens anyways.
That's when you realize "darn, my power doesn't actually do anything" because in a chase Legion becomes an ordinary M1 killer which means the chase duration depends entirely on the survivor's you face and the mistakes they make.
If you play against competent loopers and gen-aggressive survivors the injured survivors will just repair gens while you're hoping to mindgame that 1 injured looping survivor you've now been chasing for ages.
Therefore Legion is just a terrible killer by design in my book but that is just my opinion.
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Legion has too many downsides to even be close to oni to triangle head
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I play quite a bit of legion myself and while Legion can be oppressive against teams that are constantly healing themselves there's not much Legion can do against teams that stay injure and do gens. Most maps have enough pallet and safe areas to keep Legion busy long enough despite survivors staying injured.
Personally I really like Blood Echo on Legion, because removing exhaustion perks helps a lot against teams that stay injured and helps cut down chase times.
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This isent about otz I have always had this opinion just never seen it reciprocated Legion is the only killer ive bothered to prestige 3 times because of how fun and strong i genuinely think he is.
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This isent about otz I have always had this opinion just never seen it reciprocated Legion is the only killer ive bothered to prestige 3 times because of how fun and strong i genuinely think he is.
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Ah prestiging up... This fault I have also made 1 time. Could still slap me in the face for that.
The point is just, that you have talk about things, that could be added to every killer and that such a video was part of a discussion before.
I think also, that the Legion is today... Well.. it is complicated...
How would you call something, that is only made "better" because the playstyle of said character got aligned with that of other killers before?
Would we call this really better? I call it boring. Mhm that's a thought question for me.
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The people saying Legion is awful are the same people that say if you win with a killer that the survivors were potatos, and if you lose they were an swf. They're too deep in their own ass to see anything being viable outside 1 hit downs.
His power is injury, and tracking. Knowing where someone is, is just as valuable in a chase.
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Bro. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU CAN INJURE PEOPLE IF YOU CAN'T DOWN THEM.
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As someone who mains Legion and plays them a lot, Legion is not a good Killer. He has a very simple win condition. If the Survivors try to heal, they will lose. If they don't heal, they will win, simply because you cannot down them fast enough to stop gens from popping.
Additionally, Legion is absolutely crippled by cooldown, which is longer than Nurse's. He loses his power on a single miss (very easy on console) and his power is drained whenever he hits an M1. A lot of his add-ons are totally useless and his power is completely useless if people stay injured.
He is a Killer that will stomp lower ranked players that try to heal, but will be routinely decimated by players that can loop moderately well and know that they shouldn't heal.
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As a red-ranked survivor main and a Rank 20 killer, I find the Legion and the Wraith to be fantastic killers. I know this game and every map well enough from survivor POV to be able to decimate any new-ish survivor players.
The Wraith...sorry the Bell Ghost, and the Legion allow me to mess around after finishing a given killer challenge while helping survivors get BPs and help them figure out game mechanics (flashlights especially, even I still aim them way too low because there is no way to learn it by practicing really).
My greatest success thus far has been herding 2 survivors together during one single chase as the Bell Ghost into that same randomly closed off room in the meat plant, by constantly ringing the bell right behind them uncloaked. When they both realized they hit a dead-end (can't remember if it was a doorway or a vault into that empty tiny room with one exit that spawns sometimes at an end of a seemingly corridor) , going quiet, short pause - one bell ring - pause, rotating back and forth to illustrate my Ghostly disappointment, followed by turning my back on them - pause - full cloak, running away and restarting my bell ringing in another far off part of the map. No one died, and both survivors learnt the most valuable lesson regarding chases: the killer can never chase 2 survivors at the same time if the two survivors split up.
The Legion is equally fun, because of their random rapid pallet vault skill, and the "harmless" attacks if his - well, actually I bought the specific female outfit so it would be her or better yet their technically - hook limit has been reached and you intend to let all 4 escape.
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Infinites don't exist anymore. What are you doing?
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True, infinites don't exist, but if Survivors play a loop right, they can easily waste 20-30 seconds by playing around one decent loop. That likely means you will lose a gen (if they work together) by the time you hook that Survivor.
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Honestly rotten fields where survivors use their exhaustion perks to make distance is one of his worst maps because of the lack of scratch marks. I rate that map as hard on him specificly and can agree hes a ######### on that map but i dont think i have a real issue with any other to be honest
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I'm still not convinced you're incapable of gaining any ground on someone who's already wounded. It's basic gameplay.
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If a slowdown Legion gets a early hook or 4 man bleed it can spell death for anyone but a gen jockey SWF. I still think Legion is real bad just because the 2nd hit is the most important hit in any chase. Could use a buff obviously, but I'd prefer an entirely new playstyle that doesn't make me want to lobotomise myself when I VS them.
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I will try to explain my opinion better in this post
Almost every killer will need to hit a M1 without using his power at some point in the match the way i see it is you get the first one free most of the time at least all the killers at 115 infinities don't exist and honestly its usually in the killers hands if they can cut down a chase if your at the same level as the survivor if your struggling to catch them its down to you. This is why people can go on long winstreaks with almost every killer most the issues beyond that are just because the games frustrating to play because of the developers design choices now that that rants over with.
Trapper- Has to hit M1s realistically, you cant get 12 traps a game most of the time i struggle to get 3 but im a really bad trapper
Wraith- LUL
Hillbilly-His Chainsaw will zone mostly for the hit but he still has to get it
Bubba-Billy on a lesser scale he will be less likely to M1 but they still need to without the free hit and can be looped no base map pressure
Mike-Will stalk and can one shot with extended lunge range but will need to chase normally in the game
Doctor-Uses his power to zone and block pallet drops but doesn't get a fast hit for free and his powers not good enough a trade off
Pig-Has to hit M1s all the time crouch and roar can be used to mind-game but not reliable
Clown-Zones with powers ability to hinder
Freddy-same principle as clown but with map pressure (i rate him higher than most do as well but thats not important)
Plague-Like legion has to M1 but not as reliable denies healing similar ect but just not that great
Ghost face-need to M1 but cant set himself up to down survivors in that hit as reliable as legion but he has a time limit, tbh i think hes overrated
Demi-Never played cant comment
Executioner-Better than legion but not by much all his M1s will be because if the hits not a M1 it would be his ranged attack
Oni-Same boat as legion must M1 for blood can be rushed before that and has way better slug potential when the train starts rolling
most killers are in a similar boat at least the 115 ones and i just think if your good at killer you can cutdown the time a chase takes so much faster and i keep seeing people say hes bad and well its just wrong. hes not the best killer but he definitely is in the same boat as Oni and Exe in that seance its in your control with him and hes enables you with his versatility to always have a correct play that can be made not all the killers can do that.
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You certainly can, but it is difficult to cut corners tight. Look at some higher level Killer players, like Otz. Even regular loops would be nightmares to navigate if they didn't mindgame Survivors.
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On the contrary, Legion is overrated. For every person who thinks Legion is bad, it feels like there's two who think he's either totally fine or downright strong when like... his entire power is just injuring Survivors and applying a stall that does less than nothing, and then eating a stun afterwards. He's 100% worthy of the title of "worst Killer" in my eyes.
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Wraith is the worst killer straight up he trades a power for some extra map pressure and a little speed boost and i never see people rating legion highly. It could just be what i call the Hag effect eg when the dbd community just decides somethings weak then changes its mind in a few months with no discernible change to the characters kit.
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After he injures survivors, he becomes an m1 killer w/ no antiloop. He will never be close to or in the same league as Oni who can instadown at any loop. Sure, Legion can have some disgusting builds but his power relies on survivors being bad and grouping up. Against competent survivors who split up, he just takes the L almost every single time.
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He is certainly not as good as Oni. Maybe as good as Oni on console, but Oni sucks on console.
Allow me to rebute your list:
Trapper: His traps can cut off some of the most dangerous loops in the map, forcing the Survivors to run far away to find pallets. He is an area denial, if you can force Survivor's into your area, they will get decimated.
Wraith: Will always get an easy first hit, but will struggle if he commits to a chase afterwards. He likes a more hit and run playstyle. He's pretty easy to loop, since he is tall and very visible and since he is only 115% and his power can't help him in a chase.
Billy: Can end chases with one decent chainsaw. Survivors will often mess up trying to avoid the chainsaw and instead get smacked by an M1. He can get looped, but good Billy's can flick.
Bubba: Definitely can have trouble with loops, chainsaw is unwieldy but is great pressure and can force pallets down early.
Thicc Boi Myers: Tier III allows him to one-shot and vault faster. He can still get looped, but one mistake is the end for those Survivors, since he vaults faster, there is more mindgaming opportunity. But he can still get looped really hard if its just a regular loop with no window.
Doctor: Good Doc's can cut off loops. They can stop you from vaulting and from dropping pallets.
Pig: Yeah, she gets destroyed in loops. She is M1 and the Ambush often doesn't have enough range.
Clown: Gets looped to oblivion. All they have to do is drop the pallet and he HAS to break it else he will never catch them.
Freddy: Huge map pressure and his Snares will allow for easy area denial like Trapper. His pallets also work as great decoys and make Survivors second guess.
Plague: Almost the same boat as Legion, but she gets an INSANE ability with her Corrupt Purge, so she can stop loops very easily if she has that.
GF: Can one-shot Survivors and has great stealth. Basically, if Myers and Wraith had a child, it'd be Ghostie Boi. He still gets mega looped if you aren't in stealth tho.
Demo: Shred can bait out some windows, but he still has to chase through most loops.
Pyramid Head: Easy way around DS, decent ranged attack can stop some loops. He's fairly good at that, no map pressure though.
Oni: Bad outside of Blood Fury. He gets it pretty easily though, and most Survivors won't heal against him so, he gets some easy map pressure and his power can one-shot.
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idk, Legion right now is just a last minute thought because he needed something done to him ASAP because of the exploit.
The devs said they had so many ideas for him and I have yet see anyone bring it back up.
I didn’t forget not one bit.
The blight with his speed seem like old legion.
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Same league as Oni.
I love Legion but they're not in the same postcode as Oni let alone League
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Legion isn't the worst killer in the game but he is easily top 5 weakest. Oni and PH on the other hand are easily top 5 strongest so there is really no comparison between them.
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Bro. I can't even anymore.
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I see people rate Legion highly all the time.
And increased map traversal+Undetectable is still a better power than "hit someone and then look at my hands".
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Minor point but pretty much any pallet loop Freddy can catch with snares Clown can also catch with gas, plus Clown can put gas in front of a survivor during a chase while transitioning between tiles which Freddy can't do. Also Clown's gas always works on survivors while Freddy's snares only work on sleeping survivors. Basically Clown is better during a chase than Freddy, Clown's weakness is that once the chase is over he has no other ability and has to refresh his bottles every other chase or so while Freddy just teleports around the map and never has to refresh his snare pool.
TLDR - Freddy is way better than Clown overall, but Clown does actually have the edge during the chase.
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I think Legion is in that bucket that most killers fall of being "good enough" to win if you outplay the survivors. They've got very good map presence with Frenzy and the Deep Wounds do have some inherent gen slowdown built into them because survivors must Mend or die and any time spent Mending is time not spent on a gen. Obviously once everybody is already injured Legion is a weaker, but then again if the survivors literally never heal then Legion is kind of like Infinite Evil Meyers where they are a 115% basic attack killer that can down all the survivors in one hit. (Meyers does have the slightly increased attack range which is nice but it's not that significant a difference really.) So it wouldn't surprise me if the average kill rates and scores for Legion were comparable to Meyers. Legion's got better tracking in the early game (just injure one survivor and know where everybody else is, maybe get another injury or two in the process as well) and has a little gen slow down. Meyers is slightly better at the midgame where the gameplay is kind of similar between the two in terms of downing people but Meyers does have the capability to more quickly down survivors who still happen to be healthy.
Personally I don't think either Legion or Meyers will ever be "top tier" simply because neither of them can both cross the map quickly AND get downs quickly at loops. (It's one or the other with them, not both.) But I would say if you think one is "good" then you probably think the other is "good" too.
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I disagree. The counter to Clown is to drop pallets early. He either has to break them, or they can loop him since gas doesn't force slow vaults over pallets. Freddy will never run out of Snares, but Clown can run out of bottles.
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I play quite a lot of Legion, and I do well by him. I would not rate him as a top tier killer on the level of Oni. He can be very weak.
But hey! Folks! I read through all these comments and amidst all the talk about M1 killers I saw not a single reference to Legion's other ability: When he hits people in Frenzy, he sees the location of all nearby survivors (even in lockers). I know 'good information' is not as sexy as insta-down chainsaws or cross-map hatchet throws, but that kind of info is EXTREMELY useful to a killer with a devious mindset.
Survivors refusing to heal and just rushing gens? Give the obsession a little love-tap with Dark Devotion. Then use all that sweet, sexy information you've been collecting to quickly down the rest of the team. Slug your way! Into a 4k! Today!
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Legion is what I'll call the "Noob Test"/"Pub stomper" killer because of Feral Frenzy:
legions' power only works if the survivors let it work and don't know how to run away from it properly(Aka in a straight line).
So legion stomps noobs a lot but against good players good luck getting more then 1 person during any given Feral Frenzy.
For as much as I love legion if your smart against legion they are just M1 killers with no power.
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Legion's success is more about the survivors and less about any strengths Legion has. They have abysmal downing capability, which is the goal of the game for a killer. It's great that they can injure people easily and slow them down with deep wound, but they have to actually hook survivors at some point. Legion has an insanely hard time against 4 good players.
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I played Legion on the Game, hit someone with feral frenzy in the first 15 seconds, ran over and slapped someone else, then the third, then the 4th. Somehow within a minute of playing the game I already had all 4 survivors injured. Wasn't long until they ran out of pallets and died. Best case scenario I think.
However on other maps that aren't as small, with two floors. I just found myself struggling to get more than two people injured from a Feral Frenzy. And then there was dealing with loops. And I quickly came to realize he wasn't really that great of a killer. He isn't Oni tier at all I don't think. I mean his slug potential is kind of ridiculous with his insta down and speed to be honest. I don't think Legion is bottom tier like some people want to believe. But I wouldn't ever place him higher than mid.
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Freddy's snares and Clowns gas have identical effects on vaults over pallets, there's no difference between the two. Freddy doesn't run out of snares, that's true, but Clown's gas lasts for 10 seconds which is more than enough time to run a loop around the pallet. And since Clown's gas covers a much wider area than a single Freddy snare he only needs one or two clouds to completely gas a loop. So almost any loop that Freddy can catch a survivor in after the pallet is dropped Clown can also catch them in. God pallets where the loop is so long that you have to break the pallet anyway are the only possible exception since the snares can last longer than the gas in a loop that might take a really long time to run. But in that case you're better off probably just breaking the pallet in the first place. (Not to mention Clown is more likely to keep the survivor from reaching the loop in the first place since he can slow them in advance while they run to it while Freddy usually has to place the snares as he gets there. Plus of course the weakness that Freddy's snares don't work on awake survivors.)
But I do agree that once the chase is done and Clown has to refresh the bottles, that's where he's worse than Freddy. The bottle refresh takes a while.
P.S. I'll probably leave this alone at this point though since it really has nothing to do with the main point of the thread which is Legion. Might be worth a topic on its own though. 🤷♂️
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