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Second chance perks and their effects on game speed.
This is something I have noticed but never could quiet figure out why until I began to look not at how they speed the game up but PREVENT THE GAME FROM BEING SLOWED DOWN.
I think anyone who has played the killer role vs every survivor with DS and/Or unbreakable has noticed that those games go by faster then normal and its simply because your natural slow down gets prevented by DS/Unbreakable even without either activating.
Its almost always faster to recover when downed compared to the hook in most cases and it doesn't alert the killer to help the killer chase someone(Killer's chases slow down the game) but it can also make survivors go less far out of their ways to get their teammates up because their teammate can move to then while downed(usually after they have reached their recovery cap).
How much above is next to impossible to calculate how much of the game's slowdown gets prevented
Also now lets look at if DS activates:
The killer is stunned for 5 seconds.
The survivor gets generally speaking a 30 second on average extra chase.
so 35 seconds of the killer's time wasted because of 1 DS.
If all 3 survivors are theoretically working as efficiently as possible that's 35 charges on 3 gens or 43.75% per gen so one DS costed the killer 43.75 X 3 = 131.25% generator progression.
If all 4 DS activate that's 525% generator progression done aka all 5 generators needed to win being done.
"Locker Tech" Can force the killer to give up pressure(By leaving the survivor in the locker letting them get away for free) or will force the above DS penalty
Unbreakable is effectively impossible to calculate but it also prevents the killer's natural slow down.
Edit: I'll give a rough idea of unbreakable effect as 3 people can still be working on generators as the slugged survivor picks themselves up making it so there is no 2nd survivor being slowed down to pick the slugged survivor up.
TLDR: 2nd Chance perks prevent the game's natural slow down and are one of if not the main culprit of the game's current speed issues.
Comments
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And still Killers are doing well despite those second chance Perks. Well, obviously not the Killers on this forum, but in general, Killers are not in a bad spot.
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Even people like OTZ struggles against 4 DS/Unbreakables in a game.
This thread was also here to point that that there are legitimate issues with 2nd chance perks in DbD from a design perspective due to their abilities to both prevent survivors from losing and speed up the game by preventing the killer's natural slow down.
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it has been better then previous years but nowhere near as balanced or fun it can be there's always room for improvements. Killers maybe doing well but has it been fun? majority of the time nope it is not, you got the 4k but you didnt have fun you normally get stressed out due to the 2nd chances and the speed of the game can be stupidly to fast so it sours the 4k a bit. Plus you may get the 4k but the emblem system decides to say that game was a one pip or even black pip.
Killers are not in as far of a bad spot as some people claim but there are nowhere near at a good spot. Majority of us want the game to be more balanced where we can do chases and mindgame you more instead of having one chase costing us 2 gens potentially 3 gens and us needing 11 more hooks or 8 more to be safeish.
Vast majority of us are not asking for easy 4ks we just want the game to give us time and it to be more balanced to be a actual threat in the game and not a minor inconvience
but these 2nd chance perks are needing to be looked at while on its own they arent that bothersome bar DS it when you combine them it is causing a issue for example UB and DS it just a lose lose situation for a killer which is not fair at all i hope they desync them like they did to ruin so it can free up the meta for more creative builds.
The killers want to enjoy the game aswell the survivors it is a 5 player game but while it has been a bit better it is still very stressful for killers at the current moment.
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Similar to how exhaustion perks were given their status effect that made you unable to use them, it would be nice for the huge game-changing perks (like UB and DS) to have a similar cooldown. Although in their case, simply disabling the other perk(s) for the remainder of the trial would be healthy for the game imo. You should still be able to run UB DS, but you shouldn't be able to use both in the same match.
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That would be interesting and would make the game alot healthier and balance.
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I mean,i hate some second chance perks like unbreakable too but let's be honest.
The amount of matches you get against a sweaty team with super optimal Loadout and gameplay is soooo rare that decent killers still get their kills in most of their matches.
Perks can only carry the player to a certain degree.I've seen a LOT of survivors with really strong loadouts still failling because they made one mistake after another.
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I know but it doesn't stop the fact that these perks make it incredibly difficult for the developers to balance out gen times as if they balance them around these perks those who aren't running these perks get their games ruined due to the generator progress for them being slowed too much.
However if they don't balance around these perks it gives those who have them a significant generator progress advantage over the killer.
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While the games main issue is map design, second chance perks are the second biggest issue imo. They are extremely unhealthy for the game for a multitude of reasons and almost all of them run counter intuitive to the devs design philosophy on perks that they've stated numerous times.
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There are more important things the devs are supposed to do as opposed to just changing gens time.
-Buffing certain killer
-More Map balance (size,amount,strength and distance between each looop)
-Adding something for the early game (Is confirmed to be added soon)
-Balancing SWF and solo queue
And if you look at the last kill statistics you will see that killers are performing really well.Even before all those map changes.
Killers are,except a few,in a really good spot now.
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Those kill rate statistics are a nearly a year old at this point and are no longer representative of the game as win rates do naturally go up and down over time based off of how much people have experienced these games.
Also if the devs took those into consideration then The Nurse would have been buffed a long time due to having an overall lower kill rate then THE CLOWN.
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It's to be expected because of how hard and different the nurse is from all the other killers.I'm just stating that killers currently do just fine.
To gather more info if it's really really necessary to do something about that we have to wait for the improved MMR system to come back.
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There's nothing impressive, or even desirable, about slaughtering potato survivors. Unfortunately, the Devs deliberately flooded all ranks with people that have no idea what they are doing, likely to appease people with "look, kills!" and not realising that most people don't find that fun.
It gets even worse when meta builds almost literally carry them to the exit gates.
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Where and when did they confirm that they would do something about the early game?
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I think it was in their 4th anniversary stream
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I actually disagree.
When/If I notice there is an obsession In that match, I tend to slug someone (WHEN I find it convenient to do so) thus slowing down the game because I have now created pressure and forced at least one person off of a generator.
The problem with your theory is the problem I have with most of the “DS/Unbreakable” complaints. You present it in a scenario where they ALWAYS use it. This is not true if you know how to play around it.
Earlier I had a Squad that took me to Haddonfield, and 3 of them had DS/UB. I knew they were together because they immediately unhooked. So without further notice I went ahead and acted as if I left the next time and noticed it was the guy who had just gotten unhooked. Downed him and went for the recently unhooked they had BT. In the meantime a 3rd survivor was around to try to pick them up because they didn’t have enough time to use UB, so I stopped them, by injuring them, then picked up the survivor with UB and chased and downed the 3rd survivor.
That is how when people tell you “Apply Pressure” that is what it means. Needless to say I got all 4. But ended up giving one of them the hatch. I know this is only one of many scenarios, but let’s stop acting like certain perk combos actually proc when if you play it right you can prevent them from pro cc’ing at all.
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You know the apply pressure thing is proven to be wrong right?
Even OTZ and Tr3 both mock the "Just Pressure" arguement because it can literally be impossible to do so without the survivors messing up depending on how the map spawns/having these perks.
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Proven to be wrong? So when you go for someone else at a gen after you hooked someone, what do you think that is called?
I honestly don’t care if it’s Otz, Tru3, The President, Keanu Reeves (well maybe then)... no serious no disrespect to those guys but just whomever.. mocking the very thing you are always doing as killer. Everything you do to prevent survivors from outpacing you and as a result getting them off gens is called pressure.
But let’s reel it back to why that was even brought up. You just said how sometimes it is impossible because of perks/map set ups, yet you do not take into account the skill of a survivor... you assume that survivors stun the killer with DS when (at best) many of them are only able to bait it, but without the killer actually biting.
You aren’t always going to be able to work around DS and sometimes that won’t matter because that survivor might be able to loop you the equivalent of them being able to DS stun you because in actuality they are very good at the game. Doesn’t mean everyone and their mother have the same skill.
As a killer however, you can slug and force the same pressure you normally would without DS even being in play.
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Ultimately this is just a derailment of the thread so lets get things straight:
The point of this thread is to show that the game's gen speed is directly affected by the abundance of 2nd chance perks regardless of how its played and its overall effects on the game's generator speed balancing.
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yes they did at that time but we don't know when it happen.
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sorry you feel it’s a derailment of the thread. I just don’t agree that one specific scenario means you will always encounter that with said perks. It’s just not accurate.
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About a year old and yet, it was BEFORE several maps received significant changes. Those 100% braindead loops on multiple maps are mainly gone now, so you actually have to be decent at chases instead of being bad but knowing that running to a certain vault can guarantee getting the killer off your back (or prolonging the chase undeservedly for your skill level compared to the killer's)
Also, your second paragraph- You're referring to the kill/pick rate for ANY AND ALL ranks- Nurse is considered to be the number one killer requiring a high amount of skill to be good with. So of course the average over ALL ranks will be quite low for her- if you don't main Nurse and play her for several games in a row, you will be lucky to get more than one or two kills with her. She's much less straight forward than your aforementioned Clown (someone who would naturally farm lower ranks as less skilled survivors won't be picking on the weaknesses he has, AND not be as difficult to secure kills with even at other ranks due to the fact that he is much easier to understand at first than Nurse).
As for UB and DS, I think devs know they can't change those perks until they have a better answer for camping and tunneling. I dare say half the player base would quit if they didn't their own fight back mechanic for the way that some killers play the game. Like others have said, killers are doing just fine even with those perks being prevalent. Also, killers have their own perks to slow down the game (corrupt and pop, anyone?) so it's not like they're completely perkless/helpless.
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If that "30 second extra chase" isnt being used better than thats a you problem tbh. Unless youre tunneling, a person with DS is probably going down around objectives or other slugged/hooked teammates so its not really like a waste. You could choose to wait it out or do whatever you want tbh. Sounds pretty pessimistic to act like having a down or two isnt good enough pressure
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It may be rare for YOU because the location you live in has more casual players. For other people this is not rare.
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Wow.
Let me tell you, streamers are not perfect god masters of the game and even they can sometimes lose. Form your own opinion, maybe?
Besides, teams like you described happen only once in a blue moon. Yes, once in a blue moon - and I get that it can be frustrating and very difficult to beat those kind of teams - but it's still possible. And the killer is not supposed to get a 4K every single game.
And you can't predict the outcome of the match with mathematics. There are way too many variables to take into consideration. And if you play smartly, survivors might not get to use both DS and unbreakable even once during the match, so yeah...
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Killers are doing fine even with those perk, they will struggle VERY RARELY once they go against a really sweaty swf (Most of them are still trash).
Killers stomp over soloQ, those killers whining on forums will probably come cry after losing one match (not getting a 4k is a loss for them) after having a long streak of 4ks against randoms.
If any needs a buff, it's soloQ (if possible while giving a debuff to swf to balance it out)
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