Change The Hatch
The Hatch punishes Killers for doing their job while rewarding Survivors for NOT doing their job.
Survivors don't work together? They don't complete generators? Don't heal each other? Don't Unhook? Rewarded with Hatch
Killer maxes out literally everything, sacrifices 3 people? Punished with Survivor free Hatch Escape
And please, The Killer closing the Hatch isn't even a death sentence, The Survivor can STILL escape by opening the doors because most of the time the doors are so far apart a survivor can open one before the killer even gets to them.
If the Hatch remains RNG: After 3 survivors are Sacrificed all generators are blocked, doors are revealed to all indefinitely, The Hatch spawns Closed and must be opened to work. The Hatch plays the same sound as a Door when it's being opened for the same radius as a Door. Door Opening perks apply and it takes the same time to open as a door.
If it becomes stationary for all maps: Spawns opened, cannot be closed, both players no longer have collision within 10 meters of The Hatch, The Hatch closes after 1 minute, starting End Game Collapse.
By Collision I mean with each other, not Noclipping through objects
Edit: Tbh you're all making good points. Although I think Keys should not open the hatch ever and The Pig's traps should kill or have some sort of effect when on the head of a survivor when they jump in the hatch. Even if it's like "-1000 points"
Comments
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The hatch mechanic exists to avoid hostage-taking scenarios.
And of course it punishes a killer for doing well and - depending on how well that one survivor performed - sometimes rewards a bad survivor.
We need at least a change to keys.
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Aside from the above points, hatch is very in line with the horror genre. One person usually escapes by some tunnel, door, etc. Having the hatch makes perfect sense. Trust me, the last thing you want is a Blendette hanging out in bushes for 40 minutes because there is no hatch option.
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I see each trial is a movie, sometime everyone has a happy ending, sometime only 1 or 2 survive, sometime a coward character able to out survive the rest. 4k is never matter for me, I aim only not to get depip.
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I had a game as Myers with a Tombstone Piece at The Asylum months ago. I morid my obsession to proc the old Dying Light and by the last survivor they only did one gen. Nea hid so well it took around 30 minutes before I gave up searching and she finally completed a gen or something and escaped by hatch. It didn’t help I had her salty Obsession friend messaging false info on her location the whole time either.
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Hatch is fine, certainly better than before.
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Hatch is explained easily, lorewise. Entity feeds on hope and despair. Hatch is there to keep that shred of hope going.
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Killer's do not need to 4k every game... Devs have said they wanted balance (most games/ average 2k and 2 escape). The killer mindset of must 4k is sort of meh to me...
From killer aspect I enjoy hatch. Hatch is also a way that a killer can use to not be held hostage themselves... forcing end game and the timer. Patrol the doors, either see the survivor kill them, or timer goes out and kills them. (Without hatch a door has to be open in order for the endgame.. That seems worse to me than having hatch, because end game I just want to get on with the next one. personally.)
As it was mentioned above the "horror"/"scary" aspect of it, is nice from the survivor aspect.
It seems pretty balanced to me.
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If you did well until this point, you still win anyway. You get a lot of Points and the Emblems should reward a Pip. 3K with a Hatch Escape is still good enough.
dont know why Killers always want the 4K, they have already won at this point.
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Same reason Survivors want to escape, Bloodpoints and Emblem progress.
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I sit in a mindset of 4k cause then it forces me to play better, but other than that I want bloodpoints and emblem progress with the potential of a double pip that comes with a 4k.
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I just wish that hatch spawned when 2 gens were done like the old days before EGC. Killers shouldn't be punished for doing a fantastic job and survivors shouldn't be rewarded for mass failure.
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You dont need 4K to pip. And well, BPs... Who cares that much about BP? Especially, if you slug a Survivor for several minutes, just to get the 4K, you can better just hook the third guy and try to find the Hatch before the Survivor (Killers have better chances to find the Hatch if no player knows where it is) and go to the next game.
(Dont get me wrong, for me there would be no need for Hatch closing, personally I would have been fine with awarding the Killer with the 4K BPs and Emblems when he got a 3K and Hatch Escape, far easier and would actually really remove slugging for the 4K)
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In games I play as the killer, the last survivor rarely gets the hatch (got 'Denied' trophy yesterday). I think it's absolutely fine the way it is. The killer should have the advantage in this situation. Most killers have a good exit gate patrol tactic with The Trapper having the best security in my opinion.
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The hatch system is the equivalent of if the killer didn't kill a single person all game and the survivors are running out the exit gate the last one will just fall over dead. He completely lost the game but he needs a freebie. Sounds stupid right?
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So everyone has already addressed this nonsense post and explained why hatch is fine, but I just gotta address this one line you had in there where you said:
"And please, The Killer closing the Hatch isn't even a death sentence, The Survivor can STILL escape by opening the doors because most of the time the doors are so far apart a survivor can open one before the killer even gets to them."
This could not be further from the truth and both survivor mains and killer mains know that the doors more often that not, are like 2 feet from each other. My friends and I are shook when the doors actually do what they should do and spawn on opposite sides of the map
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Never said it was required to 4k to pip, I aim for double pip so I can rank up.
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Naw, hatch is in the best position it's ever been since this game released. Last guy still gets a fighting chance to escape when his team is garbage, the killer gets a fighting chance to prevent it, game gets forced to a close without a long standoff or stalemate.
Incidently, this game is all about reversal's of fortune from moment to moment. That's the very basis of perks like NOED or Adrenhiline. It's the basis of addins that make illusionary pallets or let you instantly heal somebody to full. It's what adds tension to the game.
Let's be honest with ourselves - the reason we discuss such things is people don't like feeling cock-blocked. But if you remove these reversals of fortune from the game, it'll get really boring really fast.
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But the devs aren't thinking because balancing around 2k/2escape is wildly impossible and if I get a 2k I ######### depip.
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You can rank up with only 1 pip.
And well, aiming for Double Pips is a first world problem tbh...
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New hatch is way better than the old one.
Old one was an auto win for survivor even if they didn't find it before the killer because the only way the killer could win is if the survivor was stupid enough to jump.
If the killer, swung/downed the survivor it didn't matter they still won, hell even pig traps didn't stop it.
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Survivors objective is to escape
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@Blueberry you can close the hatch, what you described would be impossible to avoid.
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Another killer not satisfy with there kills. The reason why the hatch is there is to end the game quicker.
Let's say the devs listens to this stupid suggestion and remove the hatch. That last survivor is NOT going to do gens and try to escape, that last survivor is going to HIDE for about 30 or 40 minutes and YOU will have to find that last person.
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Someone get the gg doctor
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As a killer main, I agree it punishes killer. Every match I have to waste time slugging to find the last survivor, it may be annoying but I disagree that it needs a change. I get a 4k almost every game, so I know door spawns really well and I’d say 3/4 times they seem to spawn in a distance where I can easily patrol. When they’re across the map from each other, it’s usually on an indoor map like Lery’s, it’s rare. I used to be a survivor main as well, so I may be biased.
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I wasn't being literal. It was to get the point across.
One being possibly avoidable by luck and one not doesn't detract from the point I was making.
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just make it so there's a killer perk to see the hatch aura the exact same as left behind, then no more complaining
hatch is good for both sides imo, doesn't need changing
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Hatch is fine.
You can get Merciless Killer either way.
(I know this because I did it multiple times)
So one survivor getting the hatch doesn't hurt your bloodpoints much and it doesn't hurt your rank much.
It's just a mechanic (Lets say kinda a 2nd Objective to escape faster) that the killer can literally close. If the survivor finds a key? Well you're outta luck. But at least it doesn't hurt you much.
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I have found that the new hatch is a bonus for killers. I have found killers down the last survivor leave them down to bleed, hunt the hatch down, close it and then hook the survivor.
OR
after last survivor is killed and floating up, the killer can still hit the hatch and get points.
If the last survivor cant get struggle points, then why should the killer get hatch closing points while the last survivor is dieing. once the last survivor is hooked, hatch points should be void.
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Only time I hate the hatch is when five gens are left, I do well with mind games and play fair only to a survivor who did nothing taunt at the hatch and say “gg ez.”
Hatch doesn’t need changing it’s good how it is but the only adjustment I’d make is it only spawns if a gen is done :/
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3 kills....what the issue?
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No he doesn't. Both doors on the same side of the map - time to patrol to check if a light is on for the killer less than 5 seconds. No chance to open.
On most maps the doors are so close together that there is not a chance in hell you could get it opened without wakeup if at all. Its bad design , a cheesy crutch solution to enough killers whining about hatch stand offs, thats all.
While hatch standoffs were boring this solution is as cheesy as all solutions this dev team has come up with to cover up very bad game design right from the beginning. Locking most windows and opening up jungle gyms....to cover really bad map design.
Different hitbox sizes allowing for nearly endless pallet looping by experienced survivors - either really bad design or bad coding or both.
Allowing survivors to infinitely jump over the same pallets over and over again - same.
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I actually find the hatch more annoying as survivor than as killer, usually. Yesterday, I watched a survivor pretend twice like he was going for the save only to let the person die on the hook (first time I thought it was an accident, but then it happened a second time...), and then they camped the hatch while I was on the hook. They escaped, too, which really sucked. If he had made the rescues, or not misled me so I made the rescues, then two or three of us probably would've escaped.
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Hatch should be changed, but no removing it, 1 way to fix it is depend on the number of Gen remaining, its easier/harder for the last survivor to escape with the hatch. Something like..
4-5 Gen left: like current gameplay but 1min EGC
3 Gen left: like current gameplay, 2min EGC
2 Gen left: the last searched chest guarantee spawns a Key. 2min EGC
1 Gen left: the next searched chest guarantee spawns a Key. 2min EGC
And key should have time action required to open the hatch, the progress bar reseted if the action is disrupted, like doing Totems.
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Here is the problem, everything you just said is 100% true but so is everything @BaconyToast said.
It gives the survivor who actually busted their butt a chance at escaping. Closing it can give that killer who did nothing all game a chance at getting kills,
BUT
It gives a team that does nothing all game a chance at 1 escaping and punishes a killer who busted their butt all game to lose a kill due to hatch spawn RNG.
So both of you are right. I honestly don't know why hatch happens at 5 gens. The 2 gen requirement made sense as most of the time even if you are on a horrible team YOU can get two gens done.
Basically its just another DBD problem no one can agree on.
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How about a 1v1? Something that proves one side deserves the escape.
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People that complain about the hatch don't seem to understand that it's in their own best interest that it exists. If you kill 3 survivors and there aren't any generators almost done then what is the probability of that last survivor successfully finishing a generator? It's almost zero. At which point in time what is the last survivor realistically going to do? They can't work on gens. All they can do is play super immersive and creep around the map. How fun is it as a killer to run around a map with no indication of where a survivor might be hiding? How fun is it after 20 minutes? The hatch is there for the killer every bit as much as it is for survivors.
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Meh. I don't see anymore problem with the Hatch than I do with NOED. The game has to keep moving. The Hatch is thematically appropriate to the genre, i.e. a last ditch attempt to escape as a sole survivor. Have I lost Survivors to a Hatch escape? Sure. It is just part of the game.
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While accurate that the hatch is good because it intiates the end game, it could have easily been implemented that if a survivor hasn't done anything to progress the game for x amount of time the end game happens. This way no hostage taking and no robbing a killer of a kill when they have 1 survivor left with many objectives left undone.
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Hatch is a free noed for survivors, a way to "win" a match when they have clearly lost. Yet costs no perk slots and is always there
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Holy 1 year old necro Breadz... As for the hatch - killers are just overly obsessed with the idea that 4 Kills is the only way they have won the game. A little known side-effect of that "dirty hatch" from the killer side is that it:
1) Is still at best a 50/50 that you find hatch first while at worst the doors are super far away on both sides and the guy also has a key in which case he leaves and the game is over because he's literally the last person... leading to the other point.
2) It encourages survivors to to not hold the game hostage by stealthing it up and trying their best to waste the killer's time for as long as possible when the game just seems "unwinnable" especially since hatch spawning mechanics is tied to people alive and generators finished. It's also the reason EDC was added to the game.
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I dislike the hatch in it's current state because it punishes a killer's skill by giving survivors a shot at an RNG victories. If it were just that then sure, but immediately following closing the hatch.. it gives survivors ANOTHER chance at an RNG victory. And what is worse, is that these "victories" nearly punish a killer for having too many generators remaining (leaving the opportunities for it to just spawn in someones face).
Proposed alternative:
The hatch spawns closed for one minute when only one survivor remains. The killer can see the survivors aura for 2 seconds every 15 seconds. For every generator remaining uncompleted, the hatch will remain closed for an additional 30 seconds. Once the hatch is open the killer cannot close the hatch. (obviously all numbers are made up and adjustable)
Take the RNG, "woo I guess you got out for being lucky in a largely skill based game" part out of the hatch and I'd be happy to have a 3k at 5 gens remaining.
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Idea if survivor escapes through hatch when the killer gets a 3K and gens are still up killer get points for forcing game end and survivors get the same amount of points as they always do. Otherwise nothing changes. This is just meant to reward killers who would of otherwise won if they found the hatch and closed it or there was never a hatch in the first place.
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I find that most killing powers are useless.
I also find that the key to open the hatch and let out 3 survivors at once is a bit abused ! All is logics in 2020
But I doubt that the devlopers are listening to us...
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The only thing I really hate about Hatch is that it is totally random. You either get screwed or get lucky, no matter if you are killer or survivor. The concept of Hatch does need to be in the game for sure, but the fact it is totally out of the player's control is extremely annoying for both sides. Sure it feels great when you find hatch first, but it feels like crap when you don't get to it first.
And don't even get me started on the door spawns. Playing killer well, putting down the entire team, finding hatch first and closing it aaaaaaand....doors cuck you because they are almost 50s apart from one another.
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The survivor doesn't deserve to get out without some serious mind games at that point in the match. Their entire team is dead and the killer found hatch first, why should they still get a free escape that requires nothing other than "wait for the killer to check this door then leave, open the gate and leave" I'm sorry dude but if your entire team is dead and you lost the hatch game you don't deserve to escape anymore.
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How about a complete hatch rework turning them into an alternate way of traversing the map via a system of tunnels rather than escape?
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Also whispers resolves the problem of which gate the last survivor is at once the hatch is closed.
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Hatch is fine. It prevents the single survivor hostage scenario.
plus it creates a high stakes moment at the endgame with a real time limited cat and mouse kind of play.
I like that element I don’t want to be wandering around looking for kill 4 for 20 mins. I never bother to slug for the 4K these days. If the players have to hatch out you’ve won. If you get to the hatch then there is only one of two places you need to be once it’s closed.
if you want to be benevolent and give someone the hatch you can still win that chase for the bps and carry them to it.
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How is a 1v1 holding the game hostage? There would be a time limit and the amount of generators completed would equate to the amount of pallets. Sounds pretty fair to me and means that survivors cant sit still all game and stealth for their team to die then find hatch. It's not fun for anyone. The only time I've personally ever felt satisfied getting hatch is when the killer had a Mori or was really toxic and doing things like face camping and tunneling when it didn't benefit him at all. Also in no way is it a 50/50 if the hatch spawns near one side. Sure the game isn't competitive but I don't see that as a reason to have a luck based mechanic to take away a kill from you. The next thing I want to say is who said it's about 4k's? You're saying that 3 survivors have to die in order for hatch to open? What about survivors who make it through the exit gate and you're the last survivor? So basically I could care less about the 4 kills rather the fact that a kill was stolen from me like that. I don't mind the result as long as it was fair. Last thing I'm going to say is stop attacking me personally instead of talking about the topic because it just comes off as ignorant and annoying when you hardly know me or have a reason to insult me as if I offended you. If I did offend you then you need to grow up or learn how the internet works.
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