Vanity Mirror Rework (Myres)
Its fairly well known that the Vanity Mirror for Myres is one of the most useless addons in the game. It just makes Myres an M1 killer who can see through walls within 16 meters (considering that his terror radius is 32 meters, that 16 meters is fairly useless) and he is slower than every killer except for nurse. My simple suggestion is remove the speed reduction. This way, using addons like the dead rabbit and perks like tinkerer, dark devotion, monitor and abuse, furtive chase etc you could reduce your terror radius and use the vanity mirror with a slight chance of getting a few kills. Its a very rare addon, so why is it this useless? This wont be overpowered, it would be better than just an M1 killer but that sounds fair to me, considering its a very rare addon.
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His TR is 16m in Tier2.
And no, his speed reduction with Vanity Mirror is needed, except that I think it should make him have 4.4m/s movement speed intead. 16m wallhacks is still strong for a killer with a tiny TR and dark outfit.
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My mistake about the terror radius, but I can agree with 4.4m/s. I main spirit and she is manageable with that but the 7% reduction is too much, it takes way too long to catch up.
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I disagree. It's a very heavy speed reduction and puts you at like 2% faster than EW1 but you get half the aura range of scratched mirror + you need to stalk to tier up to EW2.
The only upside is you can still earn bloodlust.
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Well, let me put it this way, I will play Spooky Myers (i.e. Scratch Mirror) over the Vanity Mirror any day. I'm perfectly happy to be even slower but with a better view of things. I've never been able to get any traction with the Vanity Mirror. That middle ground it straddles, i.e. less range on the wall hack but able to get to Tier-2, is tantamount to saying "I do NOTHING really well." So I either play for the ability to go to Tier-3 or stay entirely in Tier-1. I have as many Vanity Mirrors as I do Tombstones, i.e. a TON of them, and unless they get a rework, I don't expect I will ever use them.
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Well, imagine Myers having an 8m TR (with M&A), wallhacks for 16m and moving at 4.6m/s. You're telling me that'd be fine to go against?
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Regarding the fact that he is always visible, has a TR and nothing else to compensate for loops... compared to Wraith's base power... yeah, I think that would be fine.
I mean, think about a Huntress addon "lose all your hatchets but have temporarily 16m Wallhacks". Doesn't sound that great tbh. The surprise thing is the only thing you can rely on. Wallhugging is already enough to waste time of a 4.4 m/s killer that can't use his power. I have seen Puppers run 5(!) laps around the crates in the coal tower upper floor against a Huntress out of hatchets. No pallets, no windows, just a pile of crates, wasting like 20 seconds of the killer. So, a basically powerless Myers with 4.6 m/s would be fine, if 16m wallhack and low TR is his only ability
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What are you talking about? His whole kit needs a rework, everyone knows he is outdated. The only fun build he has is spoopy myers imo but that is it.
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Except Myers has add-ons that combo well with Vanity Mirror. And using loops as an issue with a stealth build makes no sense since it's an alternate version of Scratched. And being vulnerable to aura readings is counterable by perks. So i'd say Vanity is fine with the speed decrease
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Not sure what you mean. At first, "alternate" yes, but in a way of "the same, but everything is massively weaker". The 2% speed increase doesn't really help that much, chasing is still not really the choice, you still need surprise hits. The only thing that is noticably better is his lunge. At the cost of having TR and half the aura reading.
The only combo that works well is I think the dead rabbit, that's it. But with that you still have a TR big enough to prevent grabs
What do you mean with "being vulnerable to aura readings is counterable by perks"? That counts for both mirrors and is a heavier downside for Vanity mirror, because survivors can get away from you before you even "see" them.
Have you even played Vanity Mirror yet? I think the only thing less viable in this game to play is BK Myers
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Bigger Lunge already more than makes up for it.
Mirror Shard and Jewelry Box work with it too. Grabs aren't guarenteed on Scratched tbh, his breathing is loud enough to alert any decent survivor before getting close enough for a grab.
Scratched Mirror isn't vulnerable to auras. Vanity Mirror is, however, builds compliment that add-on very well too. But people always ignore that aspect of it.
Yep, I played with it quite a lot. Myers was my main when he came out for a long while. The add-on really is fun to use even with it's current drawback.
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Don't forget that bigger lunge means "default lunge" in this case. He still is a 107% killer without any chase tool rather than surprise attacks. As I said, a pile of crates is enough to loop the killer for 20 seconds, no pallets or windows needed. And after the hit? Catch up with 107% speed? Chasing is NOT an option for Vanity Mirror, and 16m Aura Reading doesn't make up for that either. Wraith and Pig have 12m aura reading addons while being 115% killers and keeping their powers. Just as comparison
Grabs don't work in most cases because many gens have enough free sight to see Myers coming. Once the gen is progressed like 30-50% the gen is pretty much overlaying the breathing sound.
Ok so being vulnerable to auras is another drawback for vanity mirror. Isn't that an argument against the viability of this addon then?
And which builds do compliment to the Vanity Mirror that don't also work with Scratched Mirror? I dont think that is an argument that makes Vanity Mirror stronger.
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Ironically enough, I just went against a Vanity Mirror as I was reading this post. I felt bad for the poor bastard. God that add-on is useless. I am also a Michael main and I NEVER use it.
Possible proposed buff (this is purely off the top of the head): Vanity Mirror grants Michael Undetectable status for X seconds after stalking a Survivor. Possibly add a small cooldown? Or nah? I think this would help him reposition during some loops without the survivor knowing where he is.
Again, just off the top of the head. But that add-on def needs a little rework.
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I'm not saying you use it be 'viable'. Scratched Mirror is only potentially viable on Indoor Maps. Vanity does have potential to be viable on any map, with the right build to compliment it. Paired with either Mirror Shard or Jewelry Box; along with perks such as Whispers, Tinkerer, Enduring, Brutal Strength, Bamboozle/Fire Up, Nemesis, PWYF, STBFL, Dark Devotion, M&A, I'm All Ears, Surge, Ruin, Corrupt Intervention.
The reason why Pig and Wraith have access to their powers with their Letter and All Seeing add-on is because their powers have audio cues before they can attack. Plus their's is 12m. 16m for a killer that can attack whenever he wants is strong in it's own right.
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I think it is not viable on any open map because a 107% killer without any power rather than low TR + minor aura reading will struggle hard on any medium size map or bigger. It still stands and you did not argue against that: He cannot chase, he needs surprise attacks. So he relies heavily on LOS blockers and map size, while any other than indoor maps has a massive amount of save healing spots. Not to mention "open field" as you simply start running once he approaches you to counter him.
Therefore I also just can say nice list of perks, but I don't see any of them helping Myers to get kills rather than Whispers to make sure you don't waste time stalking in clean areas. The TR perks are in my opinion all trumped by M&A combined with Dead Rabbit. STBFL? This is to get into chase quick again. Chase sucks with Vanity Mirror. All Ears? Aura Reading? Why? Bamboozle/Fire Up? to compensate his weaknesses? Why not strengthen his strength?
And Pig as well as Wraith have a dash after the audio cue, Pig can even simply choose to uncrouch which is in many cases better than dashing to get a free hit. Also GF in comparison is better with his power if we want to extend the list.
Sorry, but I am still not convinced by anything you say, you might need to explain clear situations on how to play it "right" or show a video against not total potatoes to show how this should work.
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There are such things as trees and rocks and wall tiles on outdoor maps that aid in being unnoticed. I did say "potentially viable". So don't be too strict with examples where it doesn't work, since there are many strict examples where it does. (Corn maps like Thompson House and Rotten Fields are great for Vanity since you can heavily pretend you're just a basic Myers, and get them to try and evade you in Corn and they never will be able to.
STBFL so you aren't hurt too much by the hit speed boost midgame onward. I'm All Ears so you don't need to bother using stalk in big tiles that are heavily jukable. TR perks are useful in situations where you're vsing aura perks like OoO, Alert, Dark Sense, Kindred. Meaning you aren't at a heavy disadvantage.
Like I said, Vanity is a gameplay alteration add-on. It allows the players to experience a different approach to a Myers match. Incredibely stealth heavy and bonus bp for your efforts too. When playing as Vanity Myers, you haven't got to play it so it's blantantly obvious you're using it. There are ways to convince survivors to keep breaking los thinking you have infinite
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Still not convinced... The perk descriptions all target chase, which is still the point you have not adressed yet. And as I said before, you give examples to lower the disatvantages rather than focussing on advantages. That is normally a bad approach
Holding W is still the best counter to him, the bigger the map, the better the "outplay". And roughly experienced survivors will notice the difference between 107% and 115%
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You left out the 100% bonus bloodpoints for Brutality hits and 150% bonus bloodpoints for Devious events. That's a potentially decent bonus, especially considering add-on bonuses are included in the endgame scores (unlike BP offerings and BBQ and Chili). (And by the way, that bonus stacks with the Scratched Mirror, so if you really wanted to go crazy on the bonus you could use both and get 200% bonus on Brutality hits and 300% bonus on Devious events).
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This is a commonly held belief, but I'm challenging it. I've been playing Spooky Myers (Scratch Mirror + Boyfriend's Memo) almost constantly and trying it on an ever increasing number of maps. I've found it is not just "potentially" viable, but downright effective on:
Meatplant, Lerys, Swamp, Midwich, and Haddonfield
It can holds its own on all the Cold Wind Farm maps except Rotten Fields by careful use of the center for crossing and the terrain (of which there is plenty) for ambush. I have limited testing in on McMillian but I have found I can win there, just not enough games yet to give a confident answer.
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I phrased it as 'potentially viable' for that very reason.
Also, what's your perk set-up with the Scratched Mirror? Because I never use slowdown perks on it, since they're boring.
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If you want advantages just look at intel perks and TR perks.
Disadvantages are distance related. The perks I mentioned help reduce the issues involved due to them allowing for a nice rotation of add-on into perk vice versa.
They would, except that you can mindgame them into thinking you're using a Tier 3 related add-on such as Judith's Tombstone. The mindgame potential is strong with it
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Well I do use slowdown Perks. For Spooky Myers it is necessary; he is too slow himself. But they don't slow the game down THAT much, merely offset his weakness. I run:
Hex: Ruin
Hex: Thrill of the Hunt
Play With Your Food
Sloppy Butcher
*I may trade out Sloppy Butcher for Hex: Undying later (or Thrill of the Hunt). The current build slows down the Generators a bit if I keep constant pressure on them (which the Wall Hack allows me to do). Thrill of the Hunt ensures, usually within the first 15 seconds, someone touches a Totem and I get a notification of where I can find the survivors. This saves a lot of time and lets me reach them before the first Generator pops. I'm actually pretty good at grabbing them off Generators and Totems in that first minute.
The key to Spooky Myers is NEVER letting the Gen pressure up even for a minute. Always be chasing them and use your ability to see them all to make sure you chase them into each other. This in turns means you are pushing even more off the generators. No Red Stain and no Terror Radius means you have them paranoid. By heavy pressure they always feel you are right there (even when you are not).
If you can get anyone into the Basement, well Spooky Myers is a total nightmare. You can camp that basement from a long way off and see every attempt to rescue. You can be seen leaving and then time your return to come down the stairs and grab them as they try to unhook and put them up by their friends. The Meat Plant has a HORRIBLE basement which is way out of the way. Fortunately the rest of the map is very Spooky Myers friendly. The Swamp has excellent basements. Lerys is a coin toss. The basement spawning in the big medical theater area is awesome. Spawning off the office is terrible. Cold Wind Farms never has the basement in the center but you can always reach it by cutting the center. I like to chase or ambush my people in the center whenever possible for that basement. Also if you pull the map with the three story house, the hook at the top is even harder to rescue people from than a basement. And nine times out of ten the basement is in the same building.
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I wanted to talk about Haddonfield and Spooky Myers in its own post. I used to hate Haddonfield; for every other Myers build it is really a pain. The terrain is long and awkward, it is hard to track and prevent the generators, and it is largely Survivor friendly. Everything reverses when you play Spooky Myers. You can sweep every generator simply by a short strip of street and always know when and where you need to put pressure. The basement is ALWAYS in the Myers house which is in the center of the action. You can get a 3-Gen lock very easily.
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Still no comment about "needs surprise, can't chase". "ADvantage on TR perks" is a weakness imo, compared to Scratched Mirror. You need to pick these perks to add something Scratched Mirror already has. And mindgame potential is minor because, as I said, there is a massive difference between 107% and 115% to notice, besides that also the fact that you can see by Myers left hand if he runs a Mori addon or not.
I think we can stop this discussion.
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Myers TR is 16m in EWII, but I think that had already been mentioned by others.
I also think Vanity Mirror is quite weak in comparison to Scratched Mirror. Why?
1) - 7% MS through all tiers. This makes EWI to a nightmare with 97% MS (down from 105%), and in EWII with 107% (down from 115%).
2) No Undetectable Status. You need to mindgame/hide the red light. You are not immune against OoO.
3) It requires specific perks to work properly (M&A, Tinkerer etc) and give you more sneak potential.
My solution:
1)Reduces movement speed during EWII to 4.4ms (110%). EWI is still 105%.
2) Reduces TR by 8m. Does not stack.
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