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The 2nd game in BOTB tourney shows how unbalanced DBD is at top-level play
First of all, I'm gonna ignore the games that were played by otz and ayrun, because the survivors there were clearly not good enough for tournament play. However, the first 2 games, the second in particular, show how unbalanced this game is.
In this game, the end result is a 2k/2 escape. The thing is, the killer was Volga playing as nurse. So immediately we already have a very good player playing the best killer in the game and they can't even manage a 4k against these survivors. Also, the survivors even 3 genned themselves and still managed to get 2 escapes.
The nurse also had to camp and tunnel to even get their 2 kills and managed to get lucky with a 3-gen.
This is why tournaments can NEVER be killer vs survivor and have to be teams of killers and survivors, like in hexy's tournament
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Are we now seriously applying a Tournament game to the standard DBD game?
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The truth of the matter is that no matter how good a killer is, if the survivors spread out properly and focus gens there isn't much the killer can do. '''THAT SAID''' very few people outside of tourneys play this way as its incredibly dull for both sides. You do get SWF sweat squads that play this way on occasion but they make up maybe 2% of actual survivors. And I mean proper sweat squads. Let teammates die to focus gens sweat squads. No game should ever balance around the top 5% of players.
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Dead By Daylight is not a competitive E-Sport. Stop treating it like one.
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Did you read the title? It says 'AT TOP LEVEL PLAY'
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It says 'AT TOP LEVEL PLAY' in the title
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Top Level play is 1% of all games played on DBD. Around something like that.
If you are talking about tournaments - tournaments can be a fun thing, but should not be taken seriously since DBD is a party game.
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Well if there are tournaments with a $15.000 prize pool being made then I am going to treat it like one
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Well, unfortuantely they are taken seriously and it's not my choice to make that decison as a $15.000 prize pool tourney exists. And your point about it being 1% is irrelavant. Am I not allowed to talk about the 1%?
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That's not the point. The game wasn't created to be an E-sport, and it is to randomly generated to be one.
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You can. But ignoring the other 99% of the game does not make sense at all.
Of course you can pick that one game that proves your point, but again - does not really make sense.
Balancing around the Top 1% would not work. Or would you also be fine to balance around the Top 1% Killers? Because balancing around Top 1% Survivors but Rank 10 Killers (yes, I have seen this on this forum) is not really a good idea.
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I don't care what the game was created to be. If people are treating it like an e-sport, and there is sufficient funding for high level tournaments, then I'm going to pay attention to that side of the game. A lot of games weren't made to be e-sports, but than become e-sports because people enjoyed them enough.
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CS:GO, LOL, DOTA. None of these were created to be an esport, and on the flipside most games created to be esports tend to fail as esports as well as games.
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I'm not ignoring the 99% of games, just pointing out how the 1% is unbalanced for tournament play. And yes, there is interest in this game becoming an e-sport, otherwise there wouldn't be $15.000 raised for a prize pool. I don't have a solution for the balance, I'm just pointing out how the game isn't balanced
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This game needs an absolutely signifcant overhaul at a base level to be even remotely e-sports viable. DbD as an esport is laughable.
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The game isn’t balanced because this one match ended in 2 kills/2 escapes which is pretty much the balance the devs said they would aim for? And that is already the cherry picked game out of the tournament, other matches should be ignored because you say so?
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"This is top level play"
"but we ignore the games where the killer dominated, because in that case, the survivors were just bad"
Seriously?
The tournament actually showed that the game is much more ballenced then most think. I dont have a score but it is probably not far away from 50/50 KD throught the whole tournament.
Oh and your 2nd game reverence. I played against that team who drawed against the Nurse and let me tell you they are freakin insanly good. This was supposed to be a hard fight and in the end the survivors got a bit lucky and could escape with 2 people.
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I ignored the other games because the survivors weren't playing at top level. My point does not include survivors who aren't playing at the top level
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I completely agree. And yet there are $15.000 tournaments being played as we speak
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So you are saying Nurse should always get a 4k? 2 kills 2 escapes IS balanced.
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Pointless tournaments, Rng would decide, not skill.
DbD is not even meant to be a tournament/e-sports viable game, this is kind of a mess.
And yeaah... this is not a good choice to make examples of balance, you can do way better than picking the most rare kind of games, no one will ever experience this, or will rarely do so.
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while i dont think dbd can ever be a good tourmaent due to the rng nature of the game i take issue how people are dismissing the 1% and saying we cant balance the game around the 1% in fact you can alot of games are balanced around the top players and the 1% because the top players shows more of the balancing issue then anyone else.
take overwatch for example and the introduction to Brigg she literially changed the meta to the the infamous GOAT meta ( 3 tanks and 3 support) before they had to nerf her and introduced the 222 system to try and balance the game so DPS can be used. Also at the current moment they are in the process of balancing Moria as she is heading to the same way as brig was. If it wasnt for the top players players who know how to fully utlise their powers we would never see any balance changes as mid or lower level players wouldnt showcase the balancing issue that those characters cause.
That is how in my opipion balancing should be done balance the top so it trickles down to the bottom then you get a even playing field not balance it around mid level play that goes for any pvp game regardless of competitve or not if it has a ranking system/ mmr, i strongly believe you balance the top end so it trickles down to the bottom to create a fair field for both sides
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Who are you to judge they were not playing top level? Maybe the Nurse in the 2nd game played trash too? Silly argument.
Also: Maybe the killer in those games with the 4Ks were just really good and showed that it is possible to destroy even the best when playing really well?
And finally, what is your point about the 2nd game? That if a strong killer is facing a strong team, it can be a close game?
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Calm down there.
Nurse nerf was argued to be done because god nurse does exist a nurse that you can literally do nothing against cause she will always be right yadayada. How many % of nurse do you think were god nurses at that point? :>
It would be a first, in the history of dbd, survivors are being balanced around top play too.
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Well, I think it's quite obvious in the games otzdarva and ayrun played that the survivors were not playing optimally. When I have time, I'll go through the VOD and point out all the mistakes
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yes but those arent official are they?
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I am saying that the game is not balanced because the only way a killer can stand a chance at a top level is if the play nurse and camp/tunnel and get a 3 gen along with 3 gen slowdown/stall perks. I think there should be more killers viable
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I don’t see a link to the tournament results anywhere, what specifically were the game by game results for all the games? Specifically in order to actually look at averages:
- What were the individual scores each match
- How many survivors escaped each match
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viable killers are normally Spirit, Nurse, PH, Freddy, Doctor, Oni, Huntress and Hillbilly but yeah the current meta for killers in red ranks and top plays are gen slowdown perks even then its not enough
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Do that. Meanwhile;
What is your point about the 2nd game? That if a strong killer is facing a strong team, it can be a close game?
You refuse to answer the question why you open this thread in the first place. You dont have an answer?
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Pretty much and with some games that mainly balance around high level play, but then make exceptions i.e. Riot games buffing Irelia who was over performing at high level play but not seen much in low level play, it causes malcontent among a large amount if the player base. Which is why I'm so surprised people are so apprehensive to balancing in that way here.
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well, if you are talking at competitive level play, then you can knock out doctor,oni,huntress and hillbilly from that list
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huntress, oni and hillbilly i would agree personally i think doc would do very well in competitve as he shuts down loops, able to passively stop survivors on gens once they hit madness 3 and is able to find survivors the fastest espeically if you combine it with whispers the only issue with him would be mobility around the map so he would be more map indepedent but wouldnt be a bad choice for comp
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At 1% anything can happen. It can please you or annoy you. You never know 100%.
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The survivors are at "TOP LEVEL PLAY" so the games you skidded off with It's and Ayrun were also "TOP LEVEL PLAY" smh
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The game will never be balanced, for either side. You don’t need a monetized tournament to show that.
There are instances within the game that are either on one side or the other. Maps being one of them.
Also, imagine thinking some of these people are at “top level”... 🙄
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Counter strike has always been a competitive game, as well as LOL, and DOTA what are you on about? Dead by Daylight is not a competitive E-Sport game, and it never will be. An equal playing field is required for both sides, not luck, or RNG.
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actually the saloon nurse game showed how tunneling is sometimes necessary to handle certain games: taking out fast the Zarina, eating the ds was essential to get 2k and multiple hooks
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why wouldn't you? Tournaments are literally just playing the game and the results speak for themselves. There are few problems though to say its perfect representation. one is that there are some rules that slightly distorted real game from tournament game. For example, Survivors are only allowed to have 1 unique item, only yellow items and your only allowed 2 of same perks on each team for survivor. Also your not allowed to same killer for all games. I feel like killer players will reserve Spirit for the best teams because they know survivors can not pick more than 2 iron wills. I heard Oni got picked and all 4 survivors escaped. Overrated killer. Also notice how there is no billy like some people believe. I wonder if anyone will dare pick clown or some other trash killer and try to pull an upset in like finals or semifinals, that would be super hilarious. then again, DBD is more fun to play than watch so I'd never ever watch it. just skimmed through it.
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but we ignore the games where the killer dominated, because in that case, the survivors were just bad
To be fair, I think it’s right to ignore them, those survivors should be nowhere near a tournament like this, there was one seemingly good survivor against Ayrun (the Dwight) - the feng was a complete bot and never looked behind her, and their killer seemed like he was basically trolling.
not even gonna get into the squad that faced otz, they’d lose most of their games in matchmaking lol
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They've always been competitive yes, however dbd is also competitive, hell even fall guys is competitive. Being competitive does not equal esports, those games were not designed to be esports they were designed to be enjoyable games and the esports came later. That's what I'm on about.
When did I claim Dead by daylight was an esport or I even wanted it to be?
Also luck and Rng should be minimal in esports yes however it still exists, take the current season of League of legends for example, its rng which dragon type will affect the map, which can benefit or hinder some team compositions.
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So you're complaining because the killer didn't get a 4k.
Which the killer shouldn't get because the game is balanced around 2k/2 escape........ which was the outcome of this game.
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I would be 100% in favor of balancing around the top 1% of Killers and Survivors.
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Wasn't there a bunch of restrictions on perks and add ons, items, survivors, maps and killers?
I understand no ultra rares, keys and moris since those change the game drastically but I don't think this tournament in any way could prove if the game is balanced or not since those games don't really represent actual games with those many restrictions.
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The restrictions make the game more balanced, removing perks like OoO. And even so, games are unbalanced
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Dowsey doing a good job but he really needs to stop saying "Best to the best", 'Top, highest level gameplay"
This tournament is a boosted ######### show.
Scummy plays and builds.
Camping and tunneling at it's finest.
EDIT: I don't care about the 15k.
I am a viewer, and this tournament is garbage atm.
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So a perfect tie means that the game is unbalanced? I don't understand, is your idea of balance a 4k? So why even play survivor?
Your argument is literally the reason why this forum and reddit are a ######### joke
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I’m only going to discuss the 2k/2e portion of your post.
What you don’t seem to realize is that is exactly what the devs are aiming for. Volga had to tunnel and camp to do it? I take it when the new MMR came out you were one of the many people it didn’t work for.
It worked for me pretty consistently after a couple of games for a few days before it broke. I’ve also seen games where it worked and that is exactly how it goes. Otzdarva posted two matches on YouTube where the new MMR functioned for him. One was a Legion match and it went exactly like that.
For a killer to win they generally need to be able to kill a survivor with two or three generators left. The majority of those games didn’t have a kill until no gens were left, but several people were on death hook. In the games I played and the games I watched where it seemed to be working fine -going off how everyone played, not their ranks- that was the status quo.
So, your argument that it wasn’t balanced doesn’t really mean anything because you picked the match that is a perfect example of what the developers define as balance. Hell, the game looked just like a working new MMR game.
If you didn’t like that then you should bring it up as an argument against the new MMR that’s coming back.
It’s high stress and any small mistake can turn the game into a loss or a win.
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I have gotten a few invitations to torments and always decline
whoever thinks this game is suited for competitive play obviously doesn't understand how unbalanced the game is in its current state. The only reason you don't notice it often is because it's uncommon to see survivors playing the game to their best using the best perks and play style. It's to the point where you have to completely rely on the survivors messing up to win/ get more than 1 or 2 kills.
is this game fun and playable against mediocre survivors who are not taking the game as seriously as a E Sports event, absolutely in fact its the only reason being killer is bearable in high ranks. Does this mean dbd is in a good balance state hell no, the devs can add new mechanics such as something to slow the beginning of a game that is NOT a perk and the game would immediately become more balanced for high level play. However they take forever to do anything that big so i doubt this game will be balanced in this year or the next.
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Well, I really don't need to watch tournaments to know one truth about dbd:
The lower the skill of all players, the higher the chances for the killer to "win".
The higher the skill, the higher the chances for survivors to escape.
As simple as that.
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Even the meta killers can't beat a very good swf doing and using everything to win. the only one who has a chance is nurse and maybe spirit everyone else can be looped or have enough time wasted in a chase that they end up losing to gen rushing. but then we get nerf this killer and that one because i can't last more than 40 seconds in a chase which tbh is how it should be, you should rarely if at all win a 1v1 against the killer because that much time wasted with no benefit spells game over for the killer.
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