Decisive Strike should not be strong as it is now
I'm not here to say "remove DS, op perk", I'm here to serve an alternative so the skill still be in the game.
Let's try to maintain the discussion neutral and healthy.
So in what I want to discuss is:
The window of time after getting unhooked and being able to use Decisive Strike is absurdly huge for such a fasted paced game(from rank 1-5 at least), survivors will mostly try to do generators as fast as possible, in that way a game can be over before 6 minutes if played well in SWF with communication.
Since a killer most of the time need to do 2 hits, chases can take 30-50 seconds to be done if the killer isn't able to surprise the survivors and also lose around 10 seconds putting the survivor on the hook, while a generator needs 80 seconds to be done. In the end a killer must get the survivor on the hook and try to prevent the next generator as fast as possible after the chase, and depending on the map they can't prevent it in time and the generator will be done even if they do know what generator the survivors are working on.
It shows that the killer must be very efficient with their timing, they can't afford to lose anymore seconds with bad chases otherwise a lot of generators will be done, Decisive Strike breaks any killer timings even if they are efficient and know how to do chases right(except Nurse because she's the Nurse, and Spirit), it will prevent rehooking survivors for 60 seconds forcing the killer to slug them over long periods, and even if the killer slugs the survivor, they will get back up from help or just use Unbreakable while others rush generators.
My solution:
Decrease Decisive Strike time to 6/12/15 seconds and the time will only start counting during the next dying state after being unhooked.
It will be able to be countered by killers without messing up their timings and it will be enough time for the survivor's team to arrive and not forcing the killer to slug the survivor who may be with Unbreakable for over 20 seconds, which maintain the game running for every player, even the killer.
Comments
-
No, decisive strike has been nerfed countless times, it's already a shadow of its former self.
Your suggestion would make it garbage tier and survivors would get no use out of it in game.
Surivovrs have to deal with perks like NOED, DS is not that bad.
Post edited by Avarice10 on3 -
Just because you get downed by NOED there shouldn't a skill that prevents being put on the hook in general, cleasing totems is part of the game and a direct counter of NOED, if you do not include that in your gameplay, you should be punished by it.
1 -
That's your subjective opinion. To which I disagree. It's the killers job to put survivors on the hook, it's the survivors job to not be put on the hook, flashlight saves, exhaustion perks, all work to keep the survivor off the hook. DS only activates after you've been unhooked, if the Killer tunnels or forgot the person they downed was on the hook recently they made a poor play. Besides, DS won't counter mori's it's not as strong as you think and just like NOED is countered by doing totems, DS is countered by Moris or waiting 60 seconds or even chasing the person who rescued the survivor from the hook.
0 -
It just needs decreasing to 30 seconds and pause during a chase. If you're not being chased 30 seconds after being unhooked, you're not being tunnelled. Having it deactivate when a survivor jumps in a locker wouldn't be a bad idea, either. The only problems with current DS are the ways survivors abuse it (jumping in lockers, running directly into the killer with it active, taking Unbreakable alongside it so the killer can't do anything about it) and the fact that a killer can hook several other survivors and still get hit by it.
Oh and as this topic has turned into "But what about NOED?" - DO BONES. 80 seconds worth of totem cleansing isn't too much to ask.
4 -
Dude, no one likes to play with Mori or against it, even most killers hate using it since it destroys your scorel.
When I play using Mori I feel like a douchebag and when I play against it, it feels wrong having it in the game, just like Decisive Strike.
Even so, Mori is an offering, Decisive Strike is a perk, they are not the same.
0 -
30 seconds with pause during a chase is a pretty good idea, it's counterable by the killer but still a good tunneler preventer and most people wouldn't risk it getting close to the killer afraid of getting sluged and losing all the Decisive Strike time.
About Unbreakable, the survivor will still get up since it takes around 25-27 seconds to recover, so sluging would still not work against it, maybe they would have to also rework Unbreakable, they could make it recover instantly on the first down, but it would need some testing to see if would still be a good skill.
0 -
DS is in the game for a reason and it is the way it is for a reason. Because it it not fun getting tunneled of the hook every god damn time. If your going to play using a ######### play style than you should get punished for choosing to do so. High risk, high reward.
0 -
DS is abused by locker hoppers, cleansing totems and doing gens in front of the killer. The killer has two choices at best take the stun or ignore them. It's design needs adjusting.
2 -
You've missed one massive problem with your idea. Currently DS is the only countered survivors have against a killer who tunnels with a mori. Being able to jump into a locker to force the grab is extremely good and if they wait it out them that's 1 minute where your team can do gens and escape.
0 -
Mori is a douchebag offering, no one likes to play with it unless the killer is toxic, and no survivor likes to play against it, that shouldn't have been created it to begin with. But now they can't remove it because they will lose the "cool death animations" and would need to rework all the quests on the Compendium that need to be killed by killers own hands. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done, but by the looks of it, they will not do it, just like fixing the bug of getting stuck on a rock.
The problem with Decisive Strike is that it is powerful to the point of "meta play which who doens't uses it is a noob", and no skill in the game should be like that.
0 -
If you see survivors wasting a ds this way then they aren't very good survivors and even a mediocre killer should be able to punish them.
0 -
I wouldn't want to see it get nerfed into extinction, because sometimes it is needed. But we're lying to ourselves if we pretend like survivors don't use it to purposely get caught to stun the killer to waste their time without trading anything in return, or using them in snowball builds with other second chance perks. That's where the perk really becomes a problem. Individually ds and other second chance perks are strong, but together they just free uno reverse cards given out willy nilly. Where's we're seeing them moving killer perks over the last several years to where _they're kinda just alright_ and they need to be combined together to get any good use out of them.
Wouldn't change it too dramatically, I'd rather see they adjust some numbers rather than fully outright reworking it again. Which could run the risk that it becomes even more powerful or quite the opposite where its so bad that picking it up would be a detriment.
Number changes
- Reduce the timer, nothing much. 5-8 seconds would be generous enough. 10+ would be pretty dangerous.
Full update or 'rework', one or a combination of them.
- Only one person at a time can use it, last person unhooked preferbly. there are a ton of situations where survivors play like rambo because they have 1 minute of invincibility and they can pair it with other perks. Purposely bum rushing hooks or downs, because they know that one, two or hell three of them can stun the killer.
- It causes survivors to have to mend. Survivor doesn't get tunneled, but killer doesn't completely lose momentum in off situations where multiple people get downed too fast.
- Can no longer be forced on by hopping inside of lockers. Or have the stun duration reduced if they try and do this.
- Getting healed or completing a generator deactivates the perk, obviously they're not getting camped or tunneled if they're able to heal up or take another extra hit already, especially with more hardened/bt like perks getting into the game.
I've heard other more game changing suggestions. Like some people suggesting that doing certain things will disable the perk or give you a status affect. But I don't know about which of those to pick from.
1 -
Mori is a douchebag offering which shouldn't have been created to begin with, no killer who wants to make the game fun uses it, only toxic ones. And probably the dev team won't remove Mori because they "will lose all the cool death animations" and have to rework the compendium quest that needs survivors to be killed by killers own hands. They should remove Mori? Yes. The will? Probably not, just like the bug of getting stuck in a rock.
I see no problem with the concept of Decisive Strike though, but it needs huge rework because it makes the efforts of the killer's chase go to waste with no way to play against it without having to use Mori.
0 -
No way to play against it except a mori? You do know you can slug right? Or just dont tunnel someone who just got unhooked?
1 -
Did you read the discussion about it being paired with Unbreakable or did you just scroll down to comment as fast as you could? Either way, even if you slug, the survivor will just use Unbreakable during the time, the killer is put in a forced situtation in which the survivor is intouchable, pair it with other players "running the meta" and most of the killers(characters) is in a unwinnable situtation that will get the gens done and the killer will have only one survivor dead at max with no skill dependance on the survivors's side.
0 -
Killers will moonwalk the 30 seconds and tunnel you through it's short time.
1 -
yes The only problems with current DS are the ways survivors abuse it they abuse it a lot they know it why most don't want it changed.
perk don't just punish tunneler because it not a anti tunnel perk it punish killer who just doing good at the match and with killers having to hook each survivor 3 times making 12 hook in all that punishment not good and abused.
3 -
The reason why I mentioned NOED, is because we get it, Killers don't like DS, and survivors don't like NOED, but both are in the game. There are things survivors and killers don't like but are in the game, I don't see NOED being removed from the game or being nerfed any further, so you shouldn't expected it of DS. Just got to deal with it. DS does have counter play, just got to play smart.
0 -
How has it been nerfed again? I thought the last change made it more usable for multiple survivors running it simultaneously and removed the pick up and drop counterplay?
1 -
just because it recieved tons of nerfs doesnt mean its not op, previous ds was just broken
but i agree that this rework would make it trash, it just should deactivate when you are fully healed by other survivor, when touching a gen or entering a locker
0 -
The original DS wasn't an obsession perk so it was usable by all players, and it would activate whenever the killer picked up the survivor, the survivor could choose not to use the perk and save it for later, it was great and became one of the meta perks.
0 -
Have you actually played this game or did you just get butthurt because someone ds'd you so you came to the forums to ######### as fast as you could? There are plenty of ways to counter ds. You just obviously dont know how. If they have unbreakable then oh well. Eat the stun or leave them. Its your fault if you lose them, not theirs for running a combo they like. Also if your only getting one kill its not because of ds. Its because you dont know how to pressure survivors and how to chase well, or the survivors were actually just better than you.
1 -
Then just present proof of how to pressure all gens against SWF "meta perks" survivors, while the killer is either Clown, Trapper and Wraith.
You gotta prove your point.
0 -
I could see how killers think ds is oppressive, the thing that makes me agree that it could be reworked is that I reap some of the benefit of the perk (I.e. killers slugging me and going after teammates so I get healed) despite not even running the perk myself. But I do think it’s necessary to avoid tunneling for ds to be strong
0 -
Lmfao if you know that those killers have problems pressuring gens and your upset that your losing than the problem is definitely you. And just like any killer you get downs, kick gens, and make hooks. If you cant make a hook because of ds you slug. If they have unbreakable oh well.
0 -
A good survivor will buy 40 seconds to his team alone during the chase, which is 50% of a generator, that with three survivors doing others generators will make 3 gens by 80% by the arrival of the killer and since the killer isn't omnipresent, they will still do 2 gens while one of the survivors which were doing gen will get chased.
And since the Struggle Phase of the hook still takes 60 seconds to take place, they will have enough time to work at their own pace.
Again, you added nothing to the discussion except your opinion, the rest is just trying to offend me, which I don't care.
0 -
If you dont care then why are you commenting on everything i say? Seems to me you care very much. If you are having these kinds of problems every game than the survivors are just better than you. Dont let a survivor get 40 seconds into a chase. If you do they are either better than you (take out the weak links first) or you just aren't good at chasing (practice more) but dont blame your losses on a perk and whine about nerfs and reworks because you dont want to try. Learn to mindgame, slug more often, spread the pressure instead of going after one survivor and play a killer that actually scares survivors.
0 -
Wraith and Trapper have good map pressure, Trappers typically pick their side of the map and trap it up, they usually go for 3 gen set ups, this gives them strong snowball potential, but they only really shine late game. Wraith has the fastest movement speed and can sneak up on survivors and ambush them, the only survivors that are going to beat a wraith are ones who know how to loop effectively to waste his time.
The clown may not have map pressure but he shuts down loops easily and can end chases quickly, so as long as he is able to catch survivors he'll be putting the pressure on them.
1 -
Because it's interesting seeing you triggered with no reasoning behind it.
What I'm saying is, even if both the survivors and the killer is at top peak mechanical skill and game knowledge, the one who will be on top will always be the survivors, the survivors will only end in bad situation if they just stop with their consistency.
Decisive Strike is a inconsistency preventer, it makes a mistake into a play which no skill is needed and still prevent the killer from acting, that's why people with DS will run agressive towards the killer trying to make themself grabbed and stun the killer to buy time, which is already something survivors have.
It is a good tunneler preventor, but in general is a killer preventor.
0 -
I agree with most of you said, just about Wraith I disagree, because of his time getting out of invisibility, and because of it he's still a M1 killer in general.
0 -
Triggered? XD im not the one that started the thread. But it is tiring seeing both sides whine about the state of the game when they could just be working on getting better. If you know a survivor is trying to DS you and you dont want to eat the stun why are you still picking them up? And the scenario you are describing were both sides are equal in skill is incredibly rare unless your up against rank 1 SWF which is also not very common. Its why the devs don't balance around it.
0 -
So it's more about giving chances for when 4 randoms match up against a good killer and can still play against it?
0 -
That's why most Wraiths run NOED/Devour Hope, they also get a boost when they exit their cloak so they typically will gain the ground they lost de-cloaking quickly, especially with good add ons. Wraith is an add on dependent killer though.
1
