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DS is needed
In an average game of survivor you are most likely going to have a killer that will stay near or close by to a hook and will come for those two survivors, if the killer spots the injured survivor he will go for the injured survivor, without ds this can be frustrating especially if you are solo queue and you get unhooked right in front of the killer.
But lets say in other circumstances the killer is nice and goes for the rescuer instead, then the survivor will go get healed or work on gens in the mean time. Most of the time ds will run out in this time, but if the killer finds you again in this time you can still ds them.
I dont think ds needs any nerfs or buffs, the only understandable one would be to end ds when you work on a gen.
As a killer you can play around this, ds is meta and should be predictable.
---In conclusion I do think ds is stupid and its just another breeding perk for toxicity and unfun playstyles but it is needed in the environment of dbd in its current state sadly.----
Comments
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As a survivor that doesn't use DS, i can confirm this. From my experience, for every 10 games without an obsession, at least 7 of those will have a killer that literally stops what he's doing (if not at the complete opposite end of the map), just to put the injured person back on the hook.
I can understand complaints about DS for balance issues, but it's undeniable that it makes the game better for survivors (even the ones that don't have it).
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The arguments I see is that people are fine with ds, just not the "40s-60s invulnerability". Obviously you can just eat the D's or slug, but that's not without consequences.
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Yes, it's needed. Mostly because some killers decide to play in such a way that it makes the perk necessary for survivors to be able to remain in a match for more than 30 seconds.
When I play as killer I either just pick them up and eat the DS ( depending on the number of gens remaining) or I just leave them.
The type of people that I am referring to are the ones that decide to focus on one survivor for the whole game because apparently they looked at them wrong or whatever.
I've had some killers do that to me because they didn't like being looped for days.
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I stopped using ds probably a month after began playing the game. Most of the time it just wound up being a wasted perk slot because I usually would outlast the period when it was active. A lot of times I would mess up the skill check because I’d forget that I was even using it. And then sometimes it wouldn’t even activate after the first hook, it’d wait until after the second, which would totally mess with me.
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Just for perspective, I do this as killer. I run back to the unhook to catch the unhooker, but instead the unhooked survivor literally runs into me or is self-caring at hook. Sometimes I let them go, but it happens in 75% of matches, they just play bad and get caught. I don't want to let hem go every time.
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That's great and all, the concept of DS to prevent you from going directly back on the hook is fine (except for EGC, all second chances should be disabled once the fifth gen is done, you've lasted until the endgame, now can you escape without extra second chances?) but chasing someone else, hooking them, kicking a gen, patrolling, getting into a chase AGAIN and then eating a DS happens far too frequently and if it's a close game, can cost you the game. If it's not a particularly close game and you eat more than one, it can STILL cost you the game. Even killers with thousands of hours don't keep mental timers on all the people that have been recently unhooked, and you slugging has massive risks of its own.
If the killer chases you off the hook it should just stay active permanently until they pick you up or leave you alone for 30 seconds or so. If you run from the hook to a gen in front of the killer, it should deactivate after repairing for like 3 seconds. The game designer very clearly stated the intent of the perk was to counter both tunneling from the killer and being farmed by your teammates. If those things aren't happening and you're in the clear, great. No need for DS. If they do happen, DS could be infinitely MORE powerful at preventing tunneling.
But most survivors when presented with this option wouldn't take it, because it doesn't give them the same chance to wield power over the killer, it doesn't give them a chance to have a free extra hook state while they make intentionally terrible plays just to be annoying.
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people are fine with the anti tunnel but they want it solidified as an anti tunnel perk for defensive plays not offensive
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My argument with DS is when people deliberately get your attention because they have DS. Ive said this in numerous threads and I'll say it again.
I chase+down+hook survivor A
I leave.
Chase survivor B
Someone saves survivor A.
Down+hook survivor B.
Before I even get to leave, Survivor A rescues B right in my face.
I assume Survivor B has BT+DS so I go after A.
Survivor A jumps into a locker -.-
I wasn't tunneling and I still got punished for it. There should be a rule where if the killer hooks someone else your DS shuts off. Or make it so locker grabs don't trigger it. For this reason I do not run DS on any of my survivors. I feel if I needed it to escape I shouldn't have escaped. If the killer face camps me, I know to stay on the hook so everyone else can finish gens.
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It's in every one of my loadouts. Mostly for the fact to have an obsession during a match. When there is NO obsession in a match, everyone gets tunneled to death right away. At least with creating one obsession changes the way a killer plays during the match.
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Thank you for saying that DS is dumb and unfun and it don't really protect you big time unless you use it on necessary time like endgame which is helpful not on the first hook but yea DS is boring annoying.
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It don't make it better because people count on DS skill than they own skill because they know they can fail without DS but me without DS i win most of the time because I have skill of not counting DS which I don't use because it also not fun and I don't use it because people use it I like to use different perks because it feel fresh.
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The issue with the whole "DS should deactivate when someone else is hooked argument" is that there's a lot of easy ways around that.
Situation 1: I'm hook and I have DS. Partner farms me in front of a Bubba with a revved up chainsaw and both of us go down. Killer hooks other person first and that deactivates MY DS through no fault of my own.
Situation 2: I get farmed in front of the killer by an injured survivor and I get slugged. The killer catches up to the other person pretty quickly, knocks them down and hooks them. My DS would be deactivated and I've only really been off the hook for maybe 20 seconds. Again through no fault of my own, I don't get to use my perk even though I was still tunneled.
Situation 3: Killer downs someone while a 3rd partner pulls me off a hook. The killer decides to tunnel me, slug me, go hook the other person they slugged to deactivate my DS and then comes back to me.
That condition just doesn't work because there's so many way to cheese around it
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this why I feel there should always be obsession in the match even if there no obsession perks in play because it make the killer think before tunnel a survivor.
I do feel ds needs something like if the survivor healed or does a gen then he/she not being tunnel ds shouldn't work ,as killer who plays both sides I hate head on more then DS.
here a video I find it';s funny I had survivors with builds like this
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As a survivor main as an unhooker, I use baby sitter to see what the killer is gonna do after an unhook, to see whether I have the chance to heal them or not, a large minority of the time the killer will run back and since I can see them with baby sitter I run towards them so they can chase me instead of tunneling, and 7/10 the killer will ignore me and go after the unhooked surviver.
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I wouldn't say it's needed, but it is very nice to have especially in solo queue. In a 4 man SWF tho, it's really not needed. If someones being tunneled all the gens should be being done in the mean time.
It can be and should be adjusted to make it anti tunnel without it being used as a saving/aggro tool.
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I think that my version of ds would be the best version. 30 second timer, goes down twice as fast on any objective, pauses while slugged or in chase, and goes away in a locker or when you start to heal yourself or get healed.
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I think DS is a ridiculous perk. There has been so many times where I go and hook one or two other people, then down the DS person, get stunned, and now everyone escapes off of the hook. If you don't like the killer tunneling don't let him. Wait until the killer actually leaves instead of doing it in their face. If the killers camping it doesn't matter, no one was probably going to get the unhook anyway without them going down, then the killer will just camp them. All it does is reward the survivors mistakes. The timer at the very least needs to be brought down a lot, or reworked to be based of different criteria, like if the Kier chases someone else for ten seconds after the unhooking, DS deactivates. That would make it actually anti tunneling.
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DS is needed, but how it works is not. It should 100% deactivates if the person fully heals or something like that.
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DS is needed to prevent actual tunneling (getting tunnel vision on one survivor). It should not, however, be used the way it currently is: extremely aggressively. It should not, either, protect the survivor from being farmed the way it currently does: by heavily punishing the killer.
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In my opinion if your teamate is stupid enough to unhook you in front of the killer the survivor should get punish for that bad play but the way the game is right now its the killer who get punish because he capitalise on the survivor bad play
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I've played without ds for months and never felt like I "needed" it.
Most killers will play around ds even if im not using it
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Is DS needed? Yes.
Should it stay as it is? No.
Some nerfs should be done, like disabling it when you perform any actions, or its ability to combine with UB.
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DS is fine as it is.
It's a huge deterrent against cheesy tunneling strats which are used in almost every game I've seen without an obsession.
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Not work for me, as Killer, I would just pick up and eat DS on purpose so I dont have to worry about it late game. If one doesnt have DS, I just put them on 2nd hook. But I will give them a 3rd chance if they down too quickly later.
As survivor, if I dont have DS, killer just keep downing me until I get to 3rd hook.
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Killers tunnel because they need to get someone out of the game because there's likely only one or two gens left. Also, DS was made to be an anti tunneling perk, meaning if you were to be taken straight off the hook than downed you should be able to DS. But if the killer gets in chase with rescuer, downs them easily bc they were exposed or injured, hooks them, finds you and downs you, then gets DS'd because he was "tunnelling" that's not fair bc he just went through a 20 second chase with your rescuer and hooked them. Meaning he's not tunnelling you. So if you think DS doesn't need a nerf you need to sober the hell up and stop being so survivor sided.
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Let me guess, are you the guy that waits for the killer to get another hook after you get unhooked then you jump in a locker, DS him for tunnelling you, tbag and leave? Because DS is so abusable it's not even funny Mr. Survivor Main
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Funny, since I don't even use DS, calling me straight up a survivor main is making you look ridiculous by the way.
You want people to take you seriously, you don't jump into those conclusions like that.
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So im a killer main and i agree DS is a good well made perk but i just dont like when pepole use it as 60sec invincibility
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I play both sides and yeah--DS is actually really needed. I don't use it, but I constantly see matches where people get the ######### tunneled out of them. I've had matches where I've actually blocked doorways/paths because the killer was chasing someone fresh off hook and refused to hit me because they didn't want to go into cooldown on their hit and so they just got stuck on me until they had to give in & do it.
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Tea... I've made the same argument to people on the forums here. DS HAS counterplay. It's in a good spot where it is, no matter how mad some people are about not being able to get free re-hooks.
I don't like anyone's idea for it lasting only 30s unless you get into a chase with the killer within those 30 seconds, either, because that's also easily cheesable by ending the chase but still following. I just don't see it working out well.
Wanting it to deactivate in lockers is stupid, too, because at this point it's the only counterplay to getting instantly mori'd off first hook LMAO
Anyways, as a survivor main, I rarely see people use DS aggressively in games. 95% of the time it's used as an anti-tunneling perk. And y'all, it wasn't originally created as an anti-tunneling perk- it activated upon pickup for the obsession and once you wiggled to a certain percentage of the wiggle bar for the non obsessions. There's not really an argument to be had there because by the way the original perk worked, using DS aggressively is also fair game.
Me personally? I didn't run DS until crossplay was implemented. It either saves your butt or is a complete waste of a perk slot and I DON'T LIKE that it's on me as a survivor to waste a perk slot on something to prevent a killer from tunneling me out of the game ASAP. I would 100% prefer to run a fun perk instead of DS but if I get multiple tunnelers in a row, DS is going on.
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You said DS didn't need a nerf. If you don't think you're insane then you need to be put in a mental institution.
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I feel like it's less of a "DS is required" issue and more of a "there shouldn't be a neon flag telling the killer there is no DS in the match" kind of issue. I never run DS and generally don't have many issues with tunnelers unless there is no obsession in the match. I've been running Blood Pact though and have honestly been getting more value out of that than I would have DS.
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He still has to chase the other survivor. If he downs them that quickly, you're screwed anyway because he's simply better than either your teammates, or you.
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Way to go buddy, keep it up. 🤦
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I don't think DS is necessary, but it is nice to have, and it's in a good spot. I dont run it too often with Survivor, but when I do, I always get value out of it. (Not sure why, but Killers like Tunneling the good 'ole P3 Steve thaf hit 'em with the Head On stun.)
Whenever I do play killer though, I honestly will just delete people from the game as quickly as possible if they don't have DS. I don't face camp or proxy or anything, but I'm not going to let you get the unhook in my face scott free. If I come back to hook because I can't find anyone (It's a hard life when you're 50+ on a killer and still don't have Tier 1 BBQ) and you run right back into me, you can go back up on the hook.
Sorry @ all the Megs who've done this, but it's okay- you'll go home soon.
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Damn this thread makes me happy. As other have said we all know ######### tunneling killers exist and ds should be used for that but it's being used as an aggressive tactic then a anti tunnel perk. I'd say as other have ds deactivates on full heal or repairing a generator but the timer should pause in chase . For EGC I think it shouldn't activate of its anti tunnel and your in endgame.....that's not how tunneling works unless the killer is REALLY #########.
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Yeah its so true there is like 100 killers that either 1. Takes advantage of DS(by using it against them) or 2. Playing so toxic to the point where its not fun anymore. Because like If you don't have the right things the killer can kill you before anything is done.
Like the leigion with the deep cut when they hit you and your in like a 50 meter range they can see you and you need to get healed to remove the deep cut. And if they have tricks up there sleeves its so much harder to live longer then 2 minutes without being downed once.
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DS is definitely not needed. Before it was even reworked survivors did just fine without it so I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that it's required to be used. It reminds of old ruin alot actually. Players have deluded themselves into thinking they need these perks to win when they don't so almost everyone in the playerbase runs them. Of course ruin got reworked though.
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DS as an anti-tunnel perk is totally fine. The problem is when people use it offensively to go for unsafe hooks or do a gen in my face then hop in a locker as soon as i come running, forcing me to choose between DS and the gen. Also it stacking with unbreakable. DS and UB should not stack.
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Nah. I have never used DS outside of getting Adept Laurie.
I run non-meta perks (except Spine Chill) and do fine. I don't even usually run Exhaustion perks which, granted, means I'm making the game harder on myself but its too easy when you go full tryhard.
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That's cool and all but what if everyone just ran a better perk, Like borrowed time? You know, the best perk next to self care and deliverance, All I'm saying is that unless you have been literally fed to the killer Dc isn't too helpful, it'll buy you some time but if you were being tunneled you still will be except you got a 5 second stun in, unless it's end game it won't do much.
Like I don't understand what makes everyone think its meta, Yeah it has its uses but it isn't much, You'd be much better off running an exhaustion perk rather than one that NEEDS you to be downed and picked up within 40-60 seconds of being Saved, Boom sprint burst, boom dead hard, you know?
I just want you guys to think about it, I'm not saying don't use it but definitely don't call it meta, It's bad enough as it is, but then again it was pretty broken before it's rework.
To conclude, Dc is a poor perk and will only redeem you once from a mess up.
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this post became really sad now that ds is bugged and only stuns the killer for 3 seconds the day after its initial posting
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Personally I think a shorter timer would be good if it was paused when being chased and stopped ticking if you got downed so killers wouldn't down you and then slug you for 60 seconds, because how is that fun for either sides. Also if you are being chased straight off hook but make it to a pallet fast you get punished for looping the killer well if you go down after 60 seconds so you have to force ending it early which is just dumb imo. This way it would fix the 60 seconds invunrability and the issues of being punished for being a good looper on someone who insta tunnels you
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Wouldn't change too much, it would just make survivors 99% and ruin we'll make it
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"An average game".
I haven't run DS (outside of a freshly prestiged survivor and that's all they had, but soon switched off) since 2017...everyone told me I'd get relentlessly tunneled. Still hasn't happened. Almost 4 years later. I think the true question and solution here is "What do I think tunneling is, and what is tunneling actually? Those two things are usually very different.
Fancy that.
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