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SWF isn’t as OP as everyone says it is (from a Killer main)
Before I get absolutely roasted, let me explain. There are very few SWFs that I despise going against, and I’m talking about survivor depip squads(which are so far and few between that I almost never see them.) This is why I hate when killers say “bUt ThErE wAs nOtHiNg i CouLd dO” against a SWF, because 95% of the time that’s just wrong. Most SWFs in this game are people trying to have fun with their friends, because we ALL know how the solo queue experience is. I can confidently say that 9/10 of the SWFs I go against are people memeing with their friends and they bring stupid perks like no mither, sabo/breakout, pebbles, etc. They aren’t really trying to sweat, and if you go with it as the Killer, you’re going to have a lot more fun too. Also, I guarantee any person who complains about SWFs when they play Killer has at some point played Survivor with their friends. Stop being a hypocrite and stop getting upset at people for wanting to play a game that THEY bought with THEIR money with their friends. And, like I already said, this does not apply to 4 man survivor depip squads, but how many of us go against those players every day?
Comments
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I started playing SWF with my friends only recently and have been having a blast. That said, I still believe that reasonably competent players who are SWF are still a problem from a balance standpoint.
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Whenever I see 'From A Killer Main' in a title, I get the image of Elmer Fudd in a bunny costume.
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I see them often enough to get irritated.
But yes, not nearly every SWF is the toxic bully squad type. However I think when people do complain about SWF it's because of those matches. I hate when they use OoO with coms. That's also toxic IMO.
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Tbh swf really isn’t that bad 99% of the time it’s just 2-4 friends playing together I rarely get depip squads
I feel people go to calling out the other side when things don’t go their way too often instead of admitting their faults and getting better
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The amount of effort it takes to do well as a killer against a SWF is the complete opposite of the amount of effort it takes to do well as survivor in SWF.
Saying 95% of the SWF groups playing this game are not playing to win sounds unsupported. Just because they don't win, doesn't mean they don't want to win. I don't think anyone plays this game hoping to lose. Well except maybe Clown mains.
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I completely agree! I’ve gone against 4 OoO’s with a Midwich offering a handful of times, but at the end of the day I could DC if I really didn’t want to play that match. It doesn’t particularly frustrate me, but it does make the game unnecessarily more difficult.
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i agree to some extent, but i wouldnt say most swfs use meme builds, because smol pp build is still a thing and i see most swfs use it, maps also play a big part on whether or not it is "unfair"
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SWF increases the efficiency of the survivors in the SWF group. They can coordinate perks, and they can trust one another to do certain actions, such as complete a generator and then save the one on a hook, they know that the other person isn't going to just abandon them, and they can make game defining decisions based on that.
It artificially inflates player skill, and it increases the chances of winning regardless of the goal of the SWF. There's a reason why there's such a disparity between solo players and SWF players. This is the reason. SWF increases efficiency. It doesn't matter the skill level of the survivors, they are better because they utilize SWF.
The reason why SWF is not going to be changed is because it is so widely used and because it effects the survivor experience so drastically in this game. People will tell you that SWF doesn't matter yet in the same breath say that limiting SWF would kill the game.
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There a huge advantage in terms of information.
You can kill a survivor, hit a gen and have it regress all the way because others dont know about it. In SWF they tell their friends and someone finishes that gen shortly after.
You can co-ordinate which gens to do, which ones to repair first, which gens to double up on.
You can relay totem information which is huge against any totem builds
You can co-ordinate who goes for the rescue leaving others on generators
and so on and so on
Sure theres a lot of average teams out there but there’s also a lot of good teams. I see so many survivors with 3,000 - 6,000 hours on the game. Likey the reason they keep coming back is due to being able to play with their friends but when its 4 good runners and they have full map information it does unbalance the game.
With 4 survivors on comms the survivors control the map.
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Every weekend I go against depip squads. White wards and purple toolboxes with red add ons.
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You're correct for the most part, most swf would rather troll than genrush but it doesn't change the fact that when they decide to seperate and do the gens unless you're a S/A tier killer you're out of luck, there simply isn't enough time for killers with no map pressure to stop it in time , I don't care how good you are at juggling gens and chases , if they aren't bots two-three gens should pop just over a minute into the game
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Water isn't as wet as everybody thinks.
Saying that SWF isn't OP, when it literally enables legal cheating via using voice communication in a game designed around not having voice communication is the dumbest thing I heard in last week.
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Bad killers like to blame their losses on swf. SWF is fine for the most part, and you can't stop people from having fun with friends. The best the devs can do, is balance the game around swf and buff killers. Most swf like to just have fun with their friends, however I have to agree that 4 man optimal swf is ridiculous for the amount of free information it gives.
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people act like every SWF = tournament squad which is 100% wrong
even in hexy's tournament, only like 3-4 teams are really good
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You might be a killer main.
However, what rank are you as killer? What is your player level? And how many hours do you have in the game?
Because playing killer at rank 15 is different to playing killer at rank 1, against survivors with thousands of hours in the game.
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Not everyone who is good at the game is entering these tourneys , while I'll agree most squads aren't that great as a overall unit there are plenty who are good enough to win it all who don't even enter because they either don't know about it until it's already happening or they dont have the time to enter due to work or kid related activities
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I love the (from a Killer main) as if that makes your opinion any more valid, it doesn't 😂
I agree though that SWF isn't as strong as people make it out to be. I'd say it's equivalent to killer getting 5 perks instead of 4
Powerful but not unbeatable.
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You really blame someone for quitting a match they’ll probably get 0-1 hits?
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You realize the 'I just wanna play with my friends' argument is stupid, right? Nobody cares that people want to play with their friends. What is cared about, however, is how powerful comms are. A simple 'killer over here' and 'gen over there almost complete' can turn a match around, no matter how 'meme builds' are being used. You don't NEED to sweat, that's the problem.
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The thing is - this game just does not feel balanced around coordinated groups.
If it had been, from the get go, that could have worked.
However, it's a lose/lose situation as is - if they buff killers, then solo survivors suffer. If they don't, then killers are going to have less fun and burn out.
I'd rather see a more elegant solution, such as matching premades against more skilled killers by default or giving killers an extra 15% BP for every survivor grouped together.
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I play both equally and as a killer sfw make the game unbalanced for all the previous mentioned reasons. Their ability to have more map eyes as well as coordination makes all the difference and against the killer. Only a small percent matters if the sfw is skilled. I usually am matched against red rank sfw and judging by their gameplay, usually a 4 group. They make the game unfun and pop 3 gens sometimes 4 under 2 mins. I can usually get some hooks or at least one sacrifice but doesn't matter when they are telling each other whats important and making use of the comms. Makes it a completely different experience for the killer if the lobby was like a two group and two solos. Rank doesn't even matter in matches when it comes to sfw because i have dominated many purple and red rank lobbies. This matchmaking is absurd and having sfw makes it unbalanced. Im all for playing with friends but most of the time they just troll me to save the one friend and its irritating.
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Pretty sure hes just saying that hes a killer main but has a different view than most who claim swf is op/cheating.
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Coms doesn't make players better loopers and yet you still think the average swf is going to beat a good killer without sweating. What I'd "the killer is chasing me" gonna do for a team that has 2 current slugs. Not much thats 2 off gens and 1 having to go save. My point here is comes can only go so far.
Also the play with friends argument makes sense because i have interacted with killers on and off the forums who hate on swf and the players who play in it. That's not everyone but it still has validity.
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They can be, no doubt. However they usually tend to be rather predictable, and sometimes that can be taken advantage of.
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As someone who plays with friends frequently I have to say sometimes it is really helpful (killer is chasing me, its wraith. Im on the shack gen and you are leading the killer to me. Etc...) but most of the time its more like my friends talking about their work day and making it so I can't hear the TR until the killer is right on top of me.
So for serious or more than casual gamers yes, it is a lot of info being shared. How useful that info is depends on the team. If I have no map sense then unless I see your aura I may as well have no positional info at all. Killers against my SWF usually 3k or 4k.
Of course we would probably do better if we didn't really care about each other's day at work or how cute this cosmetic is on kate
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Playing in SWF gets you free benefits from a 5TH perk that gives you 100 percent info at all times, aka discord. thankfully lots of people are not that sweaty or good so most of the time you can still deal with them. its only the esports sweat squads that make the experience very un fun. it feels like your hopeless against them.
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SWF was put in a month after the game came out (after being planned from the beginning and only being delayed due to technical issues)... do you really think the devs thought "wow... NONE of these people will be communicating outside of this game... huh? Discord? XBox and PS4 party chat??? I've never heard of that... what do you MEAN these survivors are TALKING TO EACH OTHER WHILE PLAYING!?!?!?!"
It's not like they don't have their own discord server with voice channels for SWF communications. Calling voice comms "legal cheating" is just great exaggeration. I highly doubt that the reason they don't have voice communication in their game is for much reason other than that they just never bothered to put it in when they didn't have to. Even without native voice chat, they have pre-game lobby chat for survivors to have a bit of coordination beforehand- you can literally voice chat with randoms with ease if you were so inclined because you can just exchange discord usernames in the pre-game lobby and make a quick chat for that game if you wish to, or jump in the same discord voice channel. Most people just don't want to. When I solo queue I'm not interested in having voice comms with randoms and I actually appreciate that this is one of the few games that voice chat with random teammates doesn't feel somewhat forced/required.
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Indeed. However, good game balance focuses on what is considered problematically strong/weak, not simply what the average player is capable of. :P
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its OP ONLY when 4 people play and using discord. 4 man with 1 man using object of obsession + remove all infomation perk ( Kindred, Bound, Aftercare)
Rarely found 4 man. But, Surely OP
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I can tell you that I didn't use voice comm until 2020, and even when i use it, I barely share any info, because I think it's cheating. So here's some "hypocrite" for ya.
I think and probably always will, advantage that voice comms give you is huge, depending on players, of course.
However, I don't care is it huge or small, point is, that it gives advantage and is cheating.
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Ah, I never said beat. I said 'turn a match around.' Simply knowing where a killer is and what they're doing is a powerful tool. Just letting your team know what gens to hit and when can go a long way, quickly.
Are there times when it won't be as effective? Sure. Doesn't change the times when it is. And I do agree that they only go so far, but then, that's why second chance perks are so prominent. Make up for mistakes.
Compare two average matches between a group of solos, and a SWF. Usually, the SWF will fare better, simply because of free communications.
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i mean its very much OP, doesnt need a huge discussion tbh the communication is the huge factor that makes it so strong. you can easily do swf with people who arent good loopers and still get all the gens done. i never use to do swf and always played solo at rank 1, i refuse to do that now though because im tired of having a team that wont touch gens and just crouch and hide doing selfcare all game... kinda ridiculous tbh so i chill with some mates that arent very good just due to the fact they will do gens, kinda silly when you have to find a group so they will do the only objective in the game lol
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See the problem is that as survivor you do not even need to be good at looping, most killers will struggle simply by pressuring the objective. Killers will have to sweat their ass off in order to win, yet simply holding m1 is more often than not enough to win.
Also your argument ignores everything, hey what good is coms when we are all on the hook eh? Yeah maybe think about how it is when the game starts and survivors do have the advantage and the killer has 0 pressure.
Pls do tell me the scenarios where comms do not make a diffrence, there is none. As soon as one survivor is in chase or spotted the killer, everybody knows it. Hex totems can be telegraphed and what the killer is doing... when you end up getting slugged, that is due to failure and making mistakes not because comms have no impact.
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Ok so let's say I start a chase with a survivor and they tell him hey I'm in a chase. Then I end that chase quickly then the next then the next. Sure you can know what the killer is doing but what good is that as long as the killer is outplaying you.
A good swf with coms is the exception because that's scary. Other than that the average swf with coms shouldnt make an killer have to sweat hard if they are good.
None of the information matters if the survivors cant do nothing with it. Sure coms are strong but communication doesnt matter if the killer is winning. If coms was a problem as much as you are making it no killer should be winning.
Start game all coms can do is tell you where the killer is. Running corrupt helps negate the early game gens which I'd a band aid fix but it does mitigate the strength of coms start game significantly. Just enough time to get pressure and render those filthy swf com users.
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Azame's argument is all based on the fact that the survivors will be terrible and the killer is good. Disregarding the good survivors vs good killer situation. What good are comms when the survivors are winning/on even ground with the killer?
Like, what good is a med kit if all the killers are infected by the plague? Well, med kits are actually very good, just not in that situation.
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i stopped reading after you basically said swf isn't op because not everyone plays it meta
Its OP for what it allows not by how people commonly use it, sure not a lot of people play meta perks, gen rushing, cooperate saves and gens, and are amazing players but when they do its not beatable.
That is the point of the argument of swf being OP and the game being survivor sided. if a swf uses at least 3/4 things mentioned your not winning unless they are bad players. The only killer who can actually reliably beat it is nurse and even then if the players are really good against her she will struggle, as for spirit good survivors will play around pallets/vaults and can waste a lot of the spirits time by winning the 50/50's or at least make the chases last the usually 40ish seconds and the spirit losses because of gen rush.
lastly regarding OP, if it can be used to make you unbeatable regardless of implementation then its OP unless it comes at a costly requirement (ex mettle of man) or heavy limitation(ex adrenaline) which swf doesn't.
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this was the old version of billy, see how long these survivors do last in chases? :> Also most of the roster does not have the mobility billy has, yet he struggles, not because these survivors are good in any way.
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There are a few things to point out besides just the fact of it being Solo/SWF:
1) How many people are there in that SWF. 2-man is not that big of a difference from Solo but 4-man has a whole new level of coordination. Any need for information perks simply vanishes so they can bring a ton of 2nd chance perks instead.
2) Just how good those players actually are. Even a 4-man of rank 20 players with 10 hours won't be hard to deal with but an SWF of 1K+ hours players will be extremely difficult to deal with for any killer player.
The thing is SWF won't turn bad players into good ones because they play together with comms but it will turn already good players into an almost unstoppable force.
I'd say that any 4-man with comms with players that have at least 500 hours can easily be OP if they try at least a little bit.
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Tell that to me after I'm using Insidious and Third Seal but have both perks be rendered worthless because players are "cheating" around intended game mechanics.
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Kind_Lemon
An advocate of place-able totems, a priming-pallet interaction, and the removal of Exposed from tier 1 Devour Hope.
Also supports changes to how many survivors need to be present to start repairs on a generator.
#revertNurseaddons #reverttieroneDevour #reverttieroneBL #nofreechaseresources #placeabletotems #revertBillysounds #workwiththemusicyouhave
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Using a specific video to proves an argument is not helping you out. I could give you a video of the first gen taking like 4 minutes does that mean they need to decrease time? No.
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There are lots of videos like this, a gen taking 4 minutes is nothing but the survivors being super bad or stealthing out corrupt intervention.
You made your point, comms have no impact cause people go down fast, the video shows even when survivors lose their chase in 30s completely (they can not loop at all and fail every mindgame there is) they can still pressure the killer for a ridiculous amount by simply holding m1.
When first gen takes 4 minutes, show me what the survivors did because they didnt hold m1.
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