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The new Sabo is too weak
Hooks being sabotaged by this perk, only being broken for 30 seconds doesn't really make a meaningful difference, for example, I just had a match with a camping Leather face, the worst kind of Leather face, he just slugged both the rescuer and the the rescued, and I managed to sabo the hook, he did drop the person and chase me which wasn't ideal, but before long he doubled back and hooked the person ON THE SAME HOOK I just broke.
I mean FFS I took a risk which could have ended in a bloody mess with myself being slugged too, which would be an extremely bad situation having 3 survivors all slugged by a killer that wants to camp, and the risk I took turned out to be futile thanks to that fricken hook materializing less than a moment after I broke it. That's rough.
I think 30 seconds is fine for tool books, they can bring add ons to keep hooks broken for longer, and if the hook disabled time is too weak they can buff the add ons, etc but in regards to a perk that is disabled for 60 seconds if you so much as tap a hook, never mind complete the sabotage action, this is horrendous.
Seeing the aura's of hooks is pretty good though, but I kind of think the aura's should be visible all the time.
I really think this perk needs some kind of buff.
Comments
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The thing is, Sabotage should be weak. Because in the end, hooking Survivors is one of the Core Aspects of the game. Denying this on a regular Basis would only lead to a lot of slugging which is not fun for either side (at least for most people).
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Perk has a CD of 60 seconds, so you can't deny this on a regular basis, it's just one hook that you can sabotage no more, and 30 seconds makes no meaningful difference, not to mention hooks are close by that typically the killer will make it to the nearest hook.
Sabo use to have real practical use now I wouldn't even call it weak, it's just trash. I can't even farm points with this pos.
They should buff the hook disabled time or reduce/remove the cool down, at the very least they can change the cool down to only activate once a sabotage action has been complete, because just tapping a hook will disable the perk, this is stupid.
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The Perk has a Cooldown of 60 seconds, but in theory, 4 Survivors can have it AND there are toolboxes which allow to Sabotage. The only thing that needs changing on Saboteur is the Cooldown when cancelling to sabotage, since you can clip to the Hook while healing a Survivor, setting the Perk on Cooldown.
(And well, to your example... When you see a camping Leatherface you should not be anywhere near the Hook, if you have Saboteur or not)
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Try telling my team that, all 3 were by the hook trying to save each other, and I was the only one doing gens. When I went to the rescue and realized the LF was camping, I really thought I could make a difference by using the perk Sabo, I never use this perk and only had it because of a challenge, and the perk didn't even make a difference in the end. Why make a perk if it's just going to so weak it's near useless? The Devs clearly don't know what to do with this perk anymore.
I'm sick of the Devs nerfing survivors perks to the point they may as well be removed from the game because of how ######### they are.
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Oh yeah, and before I forget, "in theory" is often very different to "in practice"
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But it's much more dynamic now.
Before it was not even worth using, because it took a lot of time and it all came down to luck on which hooks you 99% and which you didn't.
Now you can use it quickly and you can often deny a hook entirely
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The gens go too fast for any survivor buffs. Denying even a single hook is usually a game breaker for killer. You use words like usually and should, but then you get a map like swamp or the game where the hook is technically within 50m, but its 60m of walking to get to it.
Bottom line, survivors have pallet saves, flashlight saves, ds, dead hard, shorter objective times, and the numbers, they dont need a stronger version of sabo.
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loosing one hook can loose the whole game
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Maybe they don't need it, but survivor perks don't need to be absolutely gutted to the point they're never used either. If I used a brown toolbox to sabo the hook I wouldn't of said anything, but the fact I used an entire perk slot to get something so underwhelming, blows my mind. They may as well reinvent Jakes entire perk and come up with a new perk, I'm sick of seeings Jakes Ultra Rare perk continiously being nerfed.
I'd be better off using Ace in the Hole and getting a brown toolbox with add ons than running Sabo, it's just too #########.
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So dont waste that perk slot. It would be like me bringing zanshin tactics or cruel limits, then griping because they're not strong enough.
Only difference is that you can pick one of the already op perks, and bring a toolbox to get the same effect.
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The thing is, Saboteur is a really old Perk, it exists since the game started. And a big difference was that Hooks would never respawn. So basically, you were able to Sabotage each hook except for the Basement, which leaves the Killer no possibility to hook Survivors.
So it was changed that Hooks respawn after three minutes, but Sabotage (and Saboteur) took a longer time to set off. Usually players would 99% the Sabotage and just hope to get a Save with it.
So they changed Sabotage again when they nerfed the Toolboxes, it now is not possible to 99% the Hook Sabotage, but it is much faster than before. This means that you wont spend so much time preparing your Sabotage without any guarantee for an Outcome, but you will have the possibility to Sabotage on the Go. And because this is possible now, they reduced the time a Hook stays broken a lot.
Sabotage plays are still possible (had one just today where another Survivor saved a Teammate), but they will only really work in that way: Killer carries Survivor to the Hook-->Sabotage-->Killer either has to drop the Survivor (which means he is on the ground and can be healed or wiggles out) or risks the Survivor wiggling out.
While I also think that Devs are scared to give strong Tools to Survivors, something like strong Sabotage should not happen, because as I said, Hooks are one of the Core aspects of the game.
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That's exactly my point, running this perk is a wasted perk slot, and bringing a perk should never feel like you're wasting a slot.
This is why the survivor meta is so stale, our quality perk choices are really limiting. So to be continuously nerfing survivor perks to the point they're useless or only good for a meme isn't helping that.
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Yes, I know I played DBD when hooks didn't respawn, it usually ended in being slugged, or the killer was running the meta, being Agi and IG, which typically meant it didn't matter if all the hooks were saboed, you're going to the basement even if they have to carry you all away across the map to do it.
I have no issue with the changes to the toolboxes or the new sabo mechanics, my issue is just how weak they've made this perk, it's ridiculous, you can't even sabotage bear traps with it anymore. So my point is this, if they're going to make a perk that is intentionally weak so that nobody uses it unless they want to meme, then it really shouldn't be a perk and they should just reinvent Jakes ultra rare perk, because I'm sick of seeing it be nerfed every other update.
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"you can't even sabotage bear traps with it anymore"<---well, this is because Devs decided that Perks should not counter Killer Abilities. Sabotage could be quite annoying for The Trapper, while the effect on other Killers was almost non-existent (to be fair, I have not noticed it when playing Trapper as well, since nearly nobody sabotaged my Bear Traps).
But, this is the Survivor Meta for you. Only a few good Perks, rest is hot garbage. I guess we have to deal with that, sad thing is that Killers complain that Survivors run the same Perks all the time. Its not like there is some serious variety.
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I get multiple saves a day solo queuing with sabo and breakout. New sabo is way better. also healthier because one survivor cant shut down half the map for 2 and a half minutes by 99% every hook.
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Exactly.
It also means more planning around having someone else ready to do the revive on the dropped survivor while the killer is distracted by another survivor.
Despite the OP complaints, I think Sabo has been made a way more accessible strategy and makes the game much more dynamic. I could have just found brown tool box in a chest and now actually consider running in to Sabo a hook i think the killer is carrying a survivor to. Whereas before it would be “too bad” because the hooks weren’t prepped.
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New sabo is still stronger then the old sabo strats - and less annoying for the killer.
Old sabo only worked if you had an entire team on comms working together to get sabo plays (and ignoring gens in order to do it). The devs reworked it so that even solo survivors can do it.
In fairness, if you want to get solo sabo plays you need to do more than just equip the perk Saboteur. You're going to need Breakout and you're going to need to be willing to take hits for your teammate and you're probably going to need a toolbox so you can sabo more than one hook at a time.
And even after all that, a smart killer can just drop the survivor they're carrying. Sure, you denied them a hook, but a slugged survivor is still giving your team pressure.
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Sabotage gameplay takes like a 3 man effort, so it's just more efficient to gen rush. Unless everyone is in agreement on the play style, the right plays won't be made.
I view Sabotage as a "second chance" scenario you can *create for someone else* under a very specific circumstance (similar to how other second chance perks require a specific series of events to unfold). The circumstance being, killer has carried survivor a long distance and you managed to map out which hook he/she would go to, forcing them to drop the survivor. Other second chance perks (DS, Unbreakable) are more reliable, and don't require another person to waste time, and therefore replace Saboteur. Saboteur's only strength being it can be played multiple times a match if the circumstance kept occurring (Borrowed Time also shares this strength and is more likely a better option). 30 second cap on hook respawn requires more concise timing and skill/knowledge to make a successful play, and not just a guessing game where all 4 survivors can run Saboteur forcing a constant no-hook scenario for the killer.
I personally support a more aggressive/risky play style being more rewarding. A flashlight/saboteur build just doesn't feel reliable or powerful enough to go out of my way for. I get more points/emblems for doing gens too.
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I think you're right, to get any value out of this perk you need to be in a SWF with comms, I mostly play solo though so relying on dumb luck or guess work in the hopes I pick the right hook does not appeal to me. I really have no issue with the new sabo mechanic or toolboxes, but this perk really is garbage, it doesn't buff sabo speeds, or increase the duration of saboed hooks, and it doesn't give any kind of buffs to toolboxes, you're literally better off not using this perk and just bringing an tool box with add ons, or bringing ace in the hole to use a toolbox that you find.
The perk should either be buffed or reinvented because right now it's really bad. I'd bet it's going to be one of the lowest picked perks from solo players.
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I think any hook broken with that perk should stay broken for the entire match. I know everyone would run it then, so to make it a little less op, it stops working when there are only 4 hooks left, so the killer can still hook survivors. Imagine the crying that killers would do, because they would actually have to do some work. Lol.
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I always thought that too, one hook can be broken for the whole match with this perk, trouble is if 4 people bring it they could turn a dead zone into a safe zone. There would have to be some kind of proxy limit from a sabotaged hook for this change to not be abused.
This perk should increase toolbox efficiency and add time to how long a hook is disabled. If it added 90 seconds the hook disabled time it would be decent, because then you could bring add ons with a toolbox and have a decent sabo build.
The whole point of this perk was to prevent the killer from hooking survivors, or to remove a dangerous hook from the game, like the hill hooks, you just can't do that with how badly they nerfed it, it offers no tactical advantage, the only strat is to guess wish hook the killer will go to and rush to it.
Another possibility is that any hook sabotaged by this perk will suffer from a debuff to the hook progression time on hooked survivors and it would increase the chance to unhook yourself, at least then it wouldn't deny a killer from hooking survivors but it would also add a benefit to survivors hooked on a sabotaged hook with this perk.
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I'm curious what you mean by "because they would actually have to do some work." By "some work" do you mean slugging more? Using moris? Playing Pyramid Head and only using cages? Personally I don't think any of those sound like fun for either side, but maybe I'm the odd one out, here.
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I think the only change I'd like to see for Saboteur is that it wouldn't be put on cooldown just for touching the hook. It is often pretty difficult to sabotage the right hook without getting smacked by the killer, and if he does that after you start the sabotage, you're out of luck. The best strategy right now is to take that hit a little bit further from the hook and use the speed boost to get there before he can and sabo it, but either way you're kind of forced to take a hook and it's a higher skilled and coordinated perk to use for the most part. If it just went on cooldown once you completed a hook sabo it would be ten times better without being anymore overpowered imo
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It's really good actually. If you dedicate a build to it then you'll easily get multiple saves.
With the current sabo toolbox you can quite easily take a hit then sabo the hook before he hits you again if you have decent add-ons.
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I've lost games to it as killer. If you treat it like flashlight saves get the killer off guard sabotaging a hook at the end of the wiggle timer can be way more reliable than flashlights
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They should only apply the CD to a successfull sabotage and make the hook auras permanent.
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