Does DS cause more "tunneling"?
Here's my rationale:
If DS is in play, the killer cannot afford to let it activate in the end-game, because that's just a guaranteed escape. Therefore, the killer must force DS to activate earlier, and the only way to do that is to pick up a survivor within 60 seconds of them being unhooked.
What do you think? Does DS cause more "tunneling"*?
*For the sake of this discussion, assume "tunneling" means that a survivor was picked up by the killer within 60 seconds of said survivor being unhooked.
EDIT: And no, I'm not saying that "tunneling" would go away if DS were removed. I'm saying what I actually wrote, don't try to extrapolate or assume anything else.
Comments
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That doesn't make any sense. DS is to give the survivor a second chance if the killer decides to go for him if he gets unhooked.
If the survivor still can't get off the killer even after that than I'd say he needs to practice looping a little more..
Whenever that happens (unhook, chase, down, DS, another chase, another down) it still gives a lot of time for the teammates to do gens.
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Play a survivor match where there is no obsession. Then you will see if DS causes tunneling, or the lack of it.
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No, I don't think it does. Plenty of killers will respect DS because if they get stunned (provided it isn't bugged), they'll almost certainly lose. If a survivor has a 50 second long chase, including the time it takes to be found hit twice and downed, then 3 gens should pop provided the killer has no movement ability, and even then that's 2 gens that go. If a killer has to then find that survivor, chase them again, single hit, that's about another 30 seconds. Then ds comes and that's another 20 seconds, meaning so far in order to not kill a survivor and only get a single one to 2nd stage, they've wasted 2-3 gens and the match is 100 seconds in. Its much more beneficial to try and pressure as many survivors as possible through injuring them, than it is to tunnel one survivor until they die.
Whenever I play survivor and there is no obsession in-game, the killer seems to take this as an invitation to tunnel city, and will honestly drop whatever chase they have just to chase the newly unhooked person, even with 3 other survivors who'd try and bodyblock. So, in my experience, no, DS encourages less tunneling because a lot of killers lost the game when they eat one on purpose, and if you eat on accidentally at 59 seconds either you're very unlucky or so far ahead it doesn't even matter.
(again this is all speaking from my experience).
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I have. Nothing changed.
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I don't know about that, but if someone runs at me or bodyblocks because they WANT to use their DS, you better believe they're gonna die first. I don't really care about the 4k, if that person dies it's worth it.
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In my case, totally yes, but not so much bc I want to get rid of it before end game, but because of stupid plays.
I normally do not tunnel, but spread the damage, even if it often is detrimental to me and I say to myself, should have tunneled more to get one out. Sometimes I hook the same guy twice in a row, often bc the unhooker hides instead of taking the aggro. But then I usually give the two-hooked some free escapes to make up for the "tunneling", meaning if I see them again injured, I'll just down them or let them escape, maybe two to three times. After that it's death hook. So all in all I really try to avoid tunneling in regular play.
But when I encounter one survivor playing stupid bc he has DS active (doing gen in my face, jumping into locker, you know the drill), I usually take the stun and if the surv. really pisses me off, chase him down again aka real tunneling. Even if not, if they happen to run into me later, I actually might switch targets to hunt them down instead, bc I know they cannot stun me again. So yeah, when survivors really abuse their DS immunity, I likely tunnel more compared to an obsession-free lobby.
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Only DS is not played this way by very aggressive survivors, but they will voluntarily let themselve hit down and pick up just to stun the killer. They will do a gen or unhook into your face, body block for an injured survivor, annoy you with stupid locker plays. This has nothing to do with "killers deciding to go for them", they make the killer target them with stupid plays. And thats exactly the reason why some killers like myself will actually tunnel MORE because of DS.
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Actually, yes.
I kinda assume that everyone has DS so if I got DS'd by someone - I know who 100% doesn't have it anymore so I will tunnel him out of the game as fast as I can.
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I think it causes tunneling in the first place if survivors play it out stupidly. I love to tunnel people that jump into a locker in my face just to bait DS, even if they could simply get away or I was even in a chase with someone else. If I get a free DS removal by only eating a 5s stun and not have to chase this one down, I'll take it and know who will have a pretty hard time for the rest of the match.
Other than that, of course there is people like that, just going for the tunnel anyway and hope to be lucky to get an easy tunnel target, or otherwise just eat it once and then finish the tunnel. But there are also enough other killers that simply play fair or good enough and then simply be able to get rid of a DS and let the survivor go, just to make sure they don't get the EGC stun.
I would not say that DS forces tunneling as a general assumption.
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In all honesty, it does for me. I prefer to get DS done with early game rather than late game where they are particularly damaging to me. So "early" game, if I have a choice between targets I will pick the same one simply to force DS to get done with. Later in the game, DS will function to make me pick an alternate target. In short, I'd rather take the stun early when it does me the least damage.
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I think this totally depends on the situation. I have seen several situations where something like 2 slugs and a hook resolved to 3 injured survivors by picking up the wrong survivor. If that happens at 1 gen done, while the fourth is on the way to finish the second survivor, this can cost you the game. You had 3 off gens and 2 possible hooks but leave the situation with a lost gen and 1 hook.
DS can seriously damage your pressure, depending on the situation you have to eat it. That's why I said above that I definitely eat it if the survivor offers an easy removal by jumping into lockers. If I don't have other targets, I just have to invest 5 seconds to get rid of it, no chase or anything. I'm fine with that. But in the above scenario I would make sure I pick up the guy that wasn't on hook first or if not sure leave both on the ground and search the 4th or kick gens near
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Voluntarily being downed isn't a good play because the killer can let you stay down and go for other survivors. Getting into a locker can be a smart play since it counters that. If you down someone that you assume has DS and pick him up then it's kinda your fault..
And by the rest of your post I just assume you're not a good killer bro.. Body blocking is a super valid tactic against tunneling and in the game in general.
I'd say you're the type of killer that tries to tunnel and then when it doesn't work you just start raging and complaining about SWF or other stuff..
Honestly there's no reason to rage at all on this game (besides glitches and bugs and stuff like that, I meant gameplay wise).. Pretty much for every strategy on this game there's a counterplay. Sometimes you have the build for it, sometimes you don't, sometimes you find the perfect scenario for it, sometimes you don't..
Just get over it, instead of raging and complaining try improving your gameplay and skills.
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I've been playing a lot of pyrimid head lately and being able to kill some one who's just been unhooked in end game is nice. DS is silly when they can just crawl out. Same with lockers just jumping in a locker to stop the killer getting anything is silly too.
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Now that I've got my beautiful Blight, I can kill DS users faster than ever. They get to use their little stun, and then die a few seconds later unless they're near a really nasty tile, which they're usually not.
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Tunnelling happens DESPITE DS, not BECAUSE of DS.
Even those instances where survivors play in-your-face to challenge to eat the DS, the killer tunnels because of the taunting, not because of DS itself.
Almost any match without an obsession is an instant tunnel-fest, showing that the rationale that it's DS fault is simply counterfactual.
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Could you please stop putting words in my mouth and respond the actual things I wrote? I did not say anything about raging, complaining about SWF, your lecturing is totally off-side. I will not even bother to respond to anything after the second paragraph since it does not apply to anything.
I wrote about the aggresive use of DS, not the regular one. Survs using their one minute protection not to get away and heal up, but blatantly do gens and other objectives near the killer without any cautiouness. Some leeting themselves downed / grabbed on purpose so they can get the ds stun. Thats not genious play, thats stupid shenanigens and can be really annoying from time to time. I'm not your circus clown, so when a survivor puts it to far, I will tunnel him BECAUSE of his DS usage. Thats what the OP asked about, and thats what I responded to.
You can assume my killer skill as much as you want, thats got nothing to do with the topic. And you obviously missunderstood me about the body blocking. I did not complain about regular blocking, I meant body blocking as an injured one with active DS to protect another, another aggessive use of DS. Maybe first try to assess what other write before trash talking them, thank you.
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Tunnelling happens DESPITE DS, not BECAUSE of DS.
Almost any match without an obsession is an instant tunnel-fest, showing that the rationale that it's DS fault is simply counterfactual.
I never said DS is what caused tunneling, I simply explained why I think it exacerbates the problem and then asked what people thought. You're free to disagree, but at least reply to what I actually said. I even put in this edit precisely because I knew someone would show up and comment something like what you said, but apparently it wasn't enough:
EDIT: And no, I'm not saying that "tunneling" would go away if DS were removed. I'm saying what I actually wrote, don't try to extrapolate or assume anything else.
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This is exactly how I approach matches.
Seeing that Obsession symbol when I’m not running Obsession perks immediately gets me semi-tunnelling as early as possible because I want to ensure DS is eliminated from all 4 survivors.
Whereas when their is NO Obsession, I chill a bit and ignore survivors fresh off a hook (other than smacking them to proc BT DW so they have to waste time mending).
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I replied exactly to what you asked. The killer tunnels despite, not because of, DS. If a killer tunnels just to get rid of DS for endgame, they're:
a) making a bad cost-opportunity decision except under some special circumstances.
b) anticipating that they're going to tunnel that person out anyway.
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I know I do. They bring that perk knowing how broken it is makes me want to punish them for it.
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To answer the question directly, DS does actually cause more tunneling. While it is generally assumed that tunneling costs games, this isn't always the case. In this particular case, we are defining tunneling as immediately downing a freshly unhooked survivor and attempting to rehook them. For argument's sake, let's just assume you're close enough to the hook for this to be possible.
Personally, if I suspect DS, I want it out of the game as early as possible. The same applies to killer shack pallet. I want that gone as early as possible too. The reasoning being that both of these are far too detrimental to the killer in the endgame. If I down a survivor at the exit gate and pick them up, DS is a free escape for them.
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All I know is that since DS is currently bugged I’ve had multiple matches with no DS, and most of the killers in those matches tunnel like crazy. I’m talking about abandoning chases with another injured survivor once they see the unhook prompt, just to rehook the same guy.
I don’t see this kind of behaviour anywhere near as much when there’s an Obsession in play, so no I don’t think DS makes people tunnel more. It acts as a deterrent for most people, in my experience.
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Then if nothing change you answered your own question.
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Without a doubt it is a judgment call, but the META being what it is today, I assume (for safety) that every single Survivor has DS. More often than not I have to assume if I just slug them they can also get back up by themselves too. Personally, I think DS would have functioned better if gave only a 2.5 second Stun and provided the escapee the same protection Borrowed Time does. Naturally, I think that protection should end the second the Survivor starts to interact with anything (work on a gen, being healed, healing oneself, getting in a locker, etc.) It wouldn't be as open to abuse as the current system, and it would lead to more chases.
But in general, if the game has just started and I'm feeling good about my route and pressure, I'll get a DS out of the way. Mid to late game I have to slug and count just like everyone else. :)
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What's funny is if it's early in the game sometime I'm just like ######### it eat the DS then hook that guy 15 sec later. I don't even run it anymore on survivors all you'll get at most in red rank is 15 more seconds of life.
Late game it is game saying tho.
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It doesn't bother me. The only thing that can cause me to "tunnel" (and I use that term loosely) is tbagging or taunting. It won't make me focus on you at the exclusion of all else, but at any time where I have a choice of survivors, I'm going for you.
Had an Ace disarm my trap, drop a pallet and begin tbagging the other day... only to run around a corner and hit my second trap. I may have M1ed him a few times after hooking and displeased the Entity. That Ace proceeded to have a bad game.
And the Entity will just have to cope.
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I typically just slug everyone and eat the Unbreakable-s instead. I'll down the recently hooked survivors regardless of whether there's a DS in play or not.
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Honestly,DS only causes me to tunnel more if i get DS'ed even though that guy was fully healed and already working on a gen again or i already hooked like 10 different people before.
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No. Egos cause tunneling
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I only pick up a Decisive because the game is going fast and I need a kill ASAP. Sometimes the pace of the game is too fast to hook everyone twice before getting a kill, so tunneling is a necessity
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It's a well known fact that one survivor out of the game and it's gg for everyone else. Tunneling gets results. A survivor with a used up Decisive, is a dead one.
It's entirely up to the devs to implement something that enables people to stay in a game longer.
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I'll admit, if I hook somebody, and watch a recently hooked survivor make a risky save, just to hit me with DS, I'm going to tunnel them out of the game. Bugs me when they play like that.
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In my experience, nothing changes.
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