Why are people complaining about Undying+Ruin+Tinkerer?
People are saying it's the brain dead killer meta but, ruin only works if the killer is applying pressure. Immediately the opposite of brain dead. Tinkerer I can agree on as it doesn't really require input, but it's not very powerful. As for undying, just do more bones! Save a perk slot and equip detectives hunch, your team will thank you. Plus there is a 50/50 chance that you cleanse undying first.
Please keep this discussion civil, as I don't want to start a flame war.
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It´s a strong combo, especially on Killers with above average mobility. I strongly disagree with the brain dead aspect. This build only works if the Killer is already good at applying pressure and the Survivors don´t realise they have to actually look out for the Killer instead of browsing reddit while sitting on a gen :P
Regarding "do more bones": I think we will (in fact I already do) be observing a meta shift that will include anti totem perks more frequently.
Detectives Hunch, Small Game, Inner Strength. The better players are already adapting since good players using for example ruin+undying can be kinda hard to deal with otherwise.
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It is because some Players seem to enjoy whining and whinging more than playing the actual game. Rather than adapt and learn to do what they must to adapt to the new reality, i.e. one that requires you to do Bones or have someone Loop the Killer while pushing through a Generator entirely, they would rather rant and spew their ire. That build (and some others I like more) require the Killer to be proactive, do proper patrols and keep up Generator pressure or it is just a waste of Perk Slots.
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I don't understand either. I'm a nurse main, so I wouldn't use that build anyway, but I don't understand it being called braindead. The real braindead thing is stridor spirit with an ebony with whatever her best add-ons are. (I don't play spirit anymore, so Idk what theyre called.)And I go against that more often than the build you're talking about. Honestly people need to stop complaining about new meta perks, because overall, they're a GOOD thing. People call meta perk users braindead, but what do you expect them to run? Monstrous Shrine? Deja Vu? No. The only braindead thing is stridor spirit with an ebony with her strongest add-ons.
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Growing pains. Hex perks in general got a huge buff with Undying and it's going to take a while before people learn how to adapt. I suspect Detective's Hunch to be a top tier perk soon.
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Because they learned if they complain long and loud enough, the Devs will carry them as they're prob 70-80% of the playerbase.
Personally i don't rate this combo, as it means many chases and less camping. Inner + Dectives Hunch (or Map) + Quick & Quit + 4th Perk has been my fav solo build for months anyway. Also if you can tell it's a high mobility killer with Tinkerer, just press W early and get distance from your gen after 70%.
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The same people who say "Pop goes the braincell". They need to find excuses for a perk like that in the hopes it gets nerfed, though we completely ignore the fact that it's 2 perk slots you can completely remove from the killer by doing totems. Of course this is the part where I would bring up Exhaustion perks, DS/Unbreakable/Soul Guard, but they're not killer related so they're okay.
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Honestly the games I tried Ruin and Undying both got cleansed so early that I don't even bother. I'm still wasting perk slots on perks tjat don't last until the mid game even. Just do more bones and the killer is screwed. Bring Detectives Hunch or a map and you are good.
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Idk why all the complaining about this combo, I like the shake up on both sides of gameplay...everything seems to be *braindead* meta....like playing only certain perks is doing calculus
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I do agree that ruin and undying is monstrously strong when survivor and killer players are of equal skill level. Much like existing survivor builds it locks one side into playing specifically around it. People say braindead because undermining your opponent is a trick they try to play on themselves to make them feel better about losing to a tactic they claim they have no answers or options to deal with (sometimes true but there always room for improvement on the player's side). Honestly tinkerer has always been underrated as before undying I was using it on low gen pressure killers to try and keep gens close together so I would have to engage in little map traversal.
The ecosystem of perks and builds warrant a killer build of this power level imo. Its comparison opponent build ds and unbreakable are imo of equal power level. Definitely one of the best killer perks in the game I suspect potential nerf's because double standards. If you disagree with my statement break down how the comparison's differ between ruin/undying vs unbreakable/ds and ask is it locking the opponent into one avenue of play if so then you see the issues both sides are experiencing.
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I'm guessing this post is why you made a post?
Which really from what I saw was one person complaining and the rest saying do bones and what about DS, DH, UB combo. 🤷♀️
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Well Idk who you mean but tbh this person has right about Ruin+undying🤫
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why do you care?
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Ive gone down countering tinkerer with spine chill
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ruin and unding is strong combo. Why? stat the game and have 5 totem to spot survivors. I play nurse with bbq + CI + ruin + undying. The 1 survivor i spot is because undying, and 80% is a freed hit or grab. Next hook and bbq do the rest. Is undying is no clean, game finish with 3-5 gen. If i have but luck, is not a problem the snowball is on move, dont care if they do 0 or 5 gen. Winning is winning
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People see it game after game after game. Even Soul Guard hasn't been alleviating the pressure: you don't need to slug to win if the totems are hidden and teammates are being morons.
However, while I do think that it needs tweaking in the Ruin department (the reason the nerf was a nerf was because the totem usually went super quick without the chance to work, now it's likely it'll last the whole trial), I don't think that it is as bad as some people say it is. If survivors just did bones, which I know sounds extremely hypocritical coming from me but Undying isn't NOED and shouldn't be treated as such, then the problem would be alleviated.
I think that the biggest issue is that it's a solo-killer combo. SWF can still rock up with all the meta perks they want and just co-ordinate, solo's are forced to run anti-totem perks that eat into their builds. And I'm not talking about micro-pp solo's running DS/UB/SG/DH, I'm talking about EVERYONE.
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I mean at least you dont need to face 4 people with the same build. Also one could be the totem hunter just using detectives hunch. Killers have to play through 4 dh ds bt and probably unbreakable. And undying could get hit right away then ruin right after those perks are guaranteed.
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I agree that it is harder on Solos, and that is the problem with mixing Solo and Group/Team Ques. All their solutions to deal with the Gen-Rush, SWF issue have been Perks to help slow things back down. These hit Solo disproportionately hard. It would have been better, and is still unavoidable in the long run in my opinion, to create the two Ques to balance the 5th Perk SWF get (Comms). That Que could have simply had another Generator required to power the gates AND activate a 5th Perk Slot for Killers.
In that way, the DEV can balance for the SWF without putting their boot on the neck of Solo. I'm pragmatic about it. The issue has been and will ALWAYS be SWF. The problem only gets more complicated every day as MORE AND MORE SWF groups play, and the ones we have get more practiced at coordinating the advantage it provides. I'm not against people playing with their friends. I just think we need a Group/Team/League Que to balance for them without strangling the Solos. :)
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Because like everyone else (Killers and Survivors) if they don't like it, then it must be broken.
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I played a few matches as Oni with undying, ruin, tinkerer, and discordance. It's a fun build to run and any build these days that works that doesn't involve me using pop and infectious fright is a relief for me. If the build works out right in trial it's great but if you lose undying and ruin ( pretty common occurrence ) then you're just left with 2 somewhat decent perks that really won't win you a game themselves.
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These are incomparable and seperate issues, however, I will entertain your whattaboutism long enought to say this: I would prefer to go up against 4 micro pp's, and do so nearly every night, than deal with 1 more Freddy or Oni with this build. Instantly finding a trial to wash away the second chance aftertaste doesn't compare to stewing for 10 minutes only to get yet another killer running the exact same build. It's not even about the direct strength: I play solo que, I'm used to dying. It's the fact that it's game after game after game after game after game after game after game after game after game after game after game after trial after game after game after game after game after game after game, because this build is nice and strong.
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Cause it's a small pp build for killers. The hypocrisy comes in when killers defend this build which requires almost little to no effort to pull off successfully but then complain about survivor meta.
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I'm pissed not for the build itself but for the fact that people can't create their own build, I was one of the first using this build in ptb, and now if I'm facing a blight, oni, billy etc. I already know their perks, zero creativity just a copy and paste community
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It's not a small PP build I would call it small/micro/no brain build c:
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when this combo is run on high mobility killers they become extremely oppressive to the point where almost no gens get done for huge periodes of time.
the worst part is, that there isnt even any good counterplay to it, as you just gotta pray you get the 50/50 chance right and cleansed Undying - and if you didnt, welp now you're on the hook for nothing - and before you say "just locate both and cleanse them": how exactly do you expect me to do so as a SOLO survivor on the newer maps with a killer who can instantly come and chase me as soon as i get near a totem? that alone is a ridiculous timewaster on a 4 man solo team, as everyone had to do that exact same thing, as we can not communicate with one another and the first to try and cleanse a totem would be chased off immediately.
for me, in its current state at least, thats the small pp combo for killers.
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My comment is just about the end of your statement....Idk but I never run totem build on survivor...been playing a long time(as you do also I'm sure) I think after a while you learn the totem spots and can get an idea where to look. I'm always solo and if I'm having trouble 1 day with teammates I'll run an exhaustion perk(I use them all), kindred, empathy and DS(cause I'm solo and sometimes peeps do crappy saves) I do see some of what ya mean in ur comments but I like the way the 2nd objective operates and I love the game as a whole and don't have much I want changed...I'm in the minority I guess
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100%agree with ya m8
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for me, its mostly the RNG factor on if you cleanse Undying first or if you have to go through 4 ruins.
Also, for solo queue its incredibly oppressive since getting undying and ruin out of the way fast is a team effort- which most people don't do totems, and it leads to no gens getting done when pressure starts being applied.
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Seems some people here like to look over the fact that unless the Killer pushes a Survivor off a gen ruin does literally nothing. Don´t stack on gens and let the Killer chase multiple Survivors at once - bam, ruin does nothing and in most matches I´ve tried tinkerer (it´s most likely not find a way into my builds) 3 gens give the notification in a 10 second time span sinceI´m busy chasin the first Survivor.
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Because it’s a strong combo for Killers that forces you to play a little different.
Also, Survivors know if they complain loud enough, the devs will likely cave in to their demands (it just worked with Pop).
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Hex perk are RNG. A strong combo of hex is with undying is make it more rng and for survivivors force to take maps o perk to counter. Is nice to see another perk in the meta and items. No brand new paet and rangers medkit with small pp build dh iron will , etc
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Because That's all survivors mains do is cry until the game is to a killer is nerfed or a killer is so that its easy for them to walk out three exits... they 16 total perks and 3 other teammates running unbreakable spine chill and Ds and soul guard with healing add-ons or a tool box and detectives hunch with deliverance and borrowed time but they still find a way to cry and ask for it to be easy instead of coming up with strategies and perks to counter it.
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Small pp build rewards failure. With ruin, the killer is rewarded for applying pressure, and that's definitely not failure.
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This is the best take in the entire thread. BHVR needs to stop pretending that SWF and solo queues should be in the same queue.
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That can be argued that ruin applies the pressure for you. Making it a crutch perk.
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Yes, but you first must apply gen pressure.
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Its a small pp build for Killers, same as DS + Unbreakable + DH or anything else. Personally I run Detectives Hunch anyways so I don't care, it is just funny to watch Survivor bbies cry
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Man, people will complain about anything that works against them.
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Survivors would just say "JuSt PrEsSuRe GeNs and drop chase you baby killer" whenever a killer player would complain about the busted things in this game like unbalanced maps, comms, small PP builds, and gen speeds. Now that a build actually rewards a killer immensely for PrEsSurInG, survivors want it nerfed because they want the game to remain heavily SWF survivor sided to get easy escapes all the time
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Anything can be argued, but that doesn't make it a GOOD argument. Ruin ONLY regresses a Generator when the Survivor stops working on it, period. Pressure only comes from a Killer pushing you off a Generator. They are mutually exclusive. If the Killer is not applying pressure, i.e. running patrols, Ruin does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you push through and do a Generator in one sitting, Ruin never regressed anything.
So this "argument" you speak of is utterly without merit. It can be invalidated instantly. Pressure can only come from the Killer. Regressing the Generator is NOT pressure. It is a side-effect of Pressure. I'm sure you can see the point.
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Not entirely. Say you hook someone. That requires another survivor to save them. Hooking and unhooking applies pressure to survivors, healing, saving and (if the killer is near) chasing. But with ruin, you also apply gen pressure as well because that survivor needs to leave the gen to save. Hooking isn't a way to pressure gens but with ruin, it is.
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No. No where did I say you can do nothing and ruin will still work. The killer has to do very little however to get value that is extremely rewarding. Especially when paired with undying. Ruin does apply pressure for the killer. If not, killer has to stop and kick every gen. Ruin carries you in that aspect, making it a crutch.
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Dont forget these are HEXS which can get cleansed a minute into the game. Hell i lost undying in 5 seconds once because they spawned on it.
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I don't understand it either.
It's a build that loses all it's power if the killer doesn't pressure gens. It does nothing if the killer camps or tunnels.
It's teaching and allowing killers to play nice. Survivors should be praising this
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Because it punishes them for just trying to slam gens and do nothing else, that's why they complain about it. They want to use full second chance builds and slam gens for extremely easy wins but this perk combo is a serious punisher for that kind of play-style. Don't worry though, I'm sure undying will get nerfed into hot garbage, the devs don't want survivors to have to change up their builds to do side objectives easier. Notice how PGTW gets nerfed but not a single survivor meta perk is touched?
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I didnt say it was or wasn't a crutch.
Edit: nvm I thought you replied to me.
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I tried this build in three games on Clown in red ranks on Xbox against PC/PS4 survivors and wow they did 3 gens across all three games. Never though it was that strong but wow 😀
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Bone patrol or bust
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