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Ds doesn't need a nerf, it needs...
Decisive strike needs a big rework to be a truly anti-tunnel perk, not I have - 60 seconds of protection.
- change the number from 40/50/60 to 40/45/50 or 35/40/45,
- Make it that you can use it twice,
- It deactivates after 3(?) seconds of being healed/healing someone/doing a totem, opening a gate,
- And after taping a gen,
- It wouldn't work after being grabbed, the only exception is pallet grab and window grab.
- While in a chase the timer wouldn't tick down.
Comments
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- Make it last 45 seconds
- Make it so if you are in a chase the timer doesn't tick down
- Make it so it can be used multiple times
- Make it so that the perk deactivates if you get healed, or heal for 1 health state, or start repairing a generator, or cleansing a totem, opening a gate. etc.
18 -
Yes, but it should deactivate after like 2/3 seconds of repairing a gen, opening a gate, and cleansing a totem
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I'd also be happy to see it not work against grabs, or deactivate the second you enter a locker.
8 -
It should deactivate as soon as you touch an objective, or you could just gen tap like old ruin.
2 -
but it should only when you get grabbed from a pallet.
1 -
yes only after taping a gen, but gates, totems and healing only after 3 seconds
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You can tap gates. The point is, if you start doing something else for even a second, then you obviously aren't being tunneled, or you are choosing to deactivate it at a bad time.
The point of DS should be for you to get unhooked, get safe, heal up, and get back into the game.
9 -
But a survivor could tap-heal you after you got unhooked and ds would deactive, that wouldn't be fair
4 -
That's why i said it should deactivate after you are healed or heal someone 1 full health state. or if you touch a gen/totem/gates.
2 -
You just make the perk worth less. Hilarious logic again.
3 -
Shrug. Then they made a mistake. Your teammates are allowed to make mistakes that negatively impact the game (like all 4 trying to escape through the same door, which is Stoogetastic)
3 -
They should also make it so you can only camp for 45 seconds or else the hook gets sent to a different location.
3 -
What if it was basically the same but only active on death hook.
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Thing is - there are often reasons to be near a hook. If I hang you and see two survivors nosing around close by, I'm going to be hunting them. If there is a gen nearby, I'm going to pop it then patrol back to see if they've reemerged.
What you are essentially asking for is for unhooks to be safe by default and for killers to be penalized for playing tactically.
Aside from straight up facecamping...there is no reason to change this (unless you take a pretty heavy hit to gen repair speeds to compensate).
3 -
On the same grounds... I, as a killer could abuse the proposed DS idea and just basically pretend to go one way and come back to the hook, meanwhile the recently unhooked survivor has already tapped a gen, cannot get in a locker because their DS is gone.
Essentially what you are suggesting is for the devs to further neuter DS even more, so that every other possibility where the killer comes back to the hook is unavailable. Because immediately tapping a gen deactivates it.
Lets not forget this perk is meant to be used during the whole duration in whichever way/strat is possible.
4 -
...a companion perk.. like this:
(recently posted this, but it’s worth another)
Right Back Atcha!
You’re always eager to return the favour!
Injured altruistic survivors who unhook you will receive the endurance status effect for 15 seconds. Any damage taken that would put the altruistic survivor into the dying state will instead apply the deep wound status effect. The altruistic survivor has 10/15/20 seconds to mend themselves.
If the altruistic survivor takes any damage while affected by deep wound or if its timer ends, the altruistic survivor is immediately put into the dying state.
Possibly place a “once per trial” bind on this perk, similar to DS.
It’s like a double BT effect if the unhooking survivor has BT an the hooked survivor has RBA, where no matter which survivor (or both) the killer hits, they won’t get the immediate down. This way the killer can’t simply slug one, then easily tunnel off hook and slug the other.
The other option is to feature a Mettle of Man (additional hit) effect included in the perk to benefit altruistic survivors who are fully healthy when going for the unhook.
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How come? I make it a real antitunnel not anti-bad for game health perk, plus 2 times using would make it better
2 -
No. 2-3 seconds can make the difference between finishing a gen vs just tapping it. If they progress the game at ALL, it is impossible that they are being tunneled, and therefore DS should not be needed.
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I changed it to deactivated after tapping a gen
1 -
good stuff
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You can just cut the bullcrap and admit that you want it deleted.
Jesus Christ, Obamacare doesn't even have that many requirements for its deletion.
6 -
Lol I run it almost every game, and no.
I only want the perk to be anitunnel.
2 -
Look - you're always the first to defend DS, and you, as someone who relies on it so hard, I get why, but you let it cloud your logical thinking.
Nobody is saying delete it (and if they are, they are nonsensical). DS DOES have a place. It's just broken and overpowered in it's current iteration. Especially when you look at the reason why PGTW was nerfed, when DS has the same issue the devs say PGTW had (except for the fact that it's FAR stronger).
DS has zero conditions. It's a free escape. Name one killer perk as strong as DS that has no conditions. Not even NOED is without conditions - it's a hex perk, therefore totems need to exist for it to work. It has a condition.
If it's REALLY meant to be an anti tunnel perk (which devs have stated on different occasions), ANYTHING you do to progress the game forward should deactivate it, and if you are REALLY being tunneled (which is impossible if you are doing a gen/destroying a totem/were fully healed/healed someone else), the timer should freeze.
3 -
"It's anti-tunnel!"
*Suggest buffs that would make it the best anti-tunnel perk in existence*
"That would make it worthless!"
Hmm...
4 -
People are so defensive of DS, it's pretty hilarious how upset they get over suggestions to make it actually an antitunnel perk instead of antimomentum.
6 -
If it would change into an anti-tunnel perk, it should still be active if the survivor jumps into a locker... odds are the killer is tunneling still if the survivor jumps into a locker.
2 -
Also deactivate at endgame
1 -
Eh maybe it should
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Much better than the stupid changes op wants
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if its getting these changes it'd only be fair to pause it while slugged also
1 -
No, that wouldn't be fair. Because if you're slugged, you can be healed.
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Are you guys forgetting that the devs already explained why they’re not going this route? The chase mechanic can be easily cheesed so having DS be chase dependent would ruin the perk.
2 -
My idea is the following
- It lasts 60 seconds and the stun will be 5 seconds
- If the survivor works on a generator, unhook another survivor, heal another survivor is deactivated. This is because if you have time to be cured, the killer didn't tunnel. If you are doing something like making a generator you are putting yourself at risk.
-If you enter a closet keep DS. This is because it is a tactic used just when one repairs a generator near a closet to force the DS. With DS fading if one fixes the generator, this problem doesn't exist. However, if it is a lawful victim of tunneling, I also find it lawful to escape into a closet to avoid being slug. I don't find it permissible when abused to repair a 60-second strong generator with impunity
I speak as a player who plays both killer and survivor, both rank 1 on consoles. As a survivor I use DS and believe that with these changes it remains very good for the purpose for which I use. That is, those killers who, as soon as they drop you, land you immediately after because they are camping or because there are incapable survivors who drop you in an unsuitable situation despite the fact that the killer did not camp
While doing this, I recognize that working on an active DS generator is extremely powerful. For practically 60 seconds you can work with it without being afraid of being hung on the hook again. Or you can save other survivors for 60 seconds knowing that you can do it with zero repercussions.
So basically I'm not proposing a nerf, but new conditions to make it the perfect perk against tunneling. So I'm not undermining its strength, but let's say adjusting it for what it should be. I wouldn't touch the Unbreakable + DS combo because with the new conditions it would be powerful but no longer oppressive
0 -
Make it 35-40 seconds, and have the timer tick down.
the average match lasts between 5-9 minutes. if we are ignoring moris and go with 3 hooks per kill, a killer has averagely 25-45 seconds to find, chase, down and hook a survivor.
see where DS eats up the mathematics here?
having the timer stop in a chase doesn't make it anti tunnel, it makes it (as stated before) pro-facecamp
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Pop getting nerfed but not DS feels like a huge slap in the face to killers.
2 -
I- its almost the same expect i added more details.
2 -
Ds needs a complete rework not a nerf, cause ppl would still use ds + ub combo
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Wait hold on I'm sorry, use it multiple times? Why??
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Because killer can just eat it and tunnel you after?
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Ok, but does that change the fact that it's still wasting a hell of a lot of time? I couldn't even count the amount of times I've had to go after the unhooked survivor after not seeing the unhooker, chasing and getting looped for quite a considerable amount of time, and then downing them and get hit by a 59 sec DS. That can be crippling to a killer, and having 4 survivors with 8 potential DS' is a bit overkill IMO, like I'm ok with the other changes but multiple times is so unfair for killer
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Or devs could just punish/remove tunneling and make ds do something different
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First of all, the timer should not tick down when downed either, bc that would allow to just slug the survivor and wait it out, thats still tunneling, albeit a time consuming one.
Healing, repairing, Cleansing can be summarized as channeling actions, so you could jsut simplify it that it deactivates on channeling actions. With this it would also deactivate on unhooking, saboing and using killer-specific objects like Plague fountains, Freddy clocks, Pigs boxes etc.
But imo, basing the deactivation of DS on the survivor actions is not the best idea. The killer could just wait for you to do something that deactivates the timer, and then tunnel you again. The purpose of the perk is anti-tunneling, so it should deactivate depending on the killers actiona. A better deactivation condition would be that another survivor got hooked, or even better, unhooked (who then might get the DS timer instead). With this, at most one timer can be active at a time. Only killers who attempt to double hook someone, aka tunnelers, will be in danger of being hit by ds then. A non-tunneling killer can totally play around this. I prefer an unhook condition, bc with a hook condition, the killer could slug both rescued and rescuer and hook both in the right order, which is still tunneling for me. Thats not possible with an unhook condition. It would even give the survivors some strategic play if they decide to delay the unhooking of a survivor to not deactivate the ds timer of another one. Sure, with this condition DS protected survivors can still do objectives in the killers face, thats why a timer is still required. But it's also up to the might of the killer, if he plays well enough and hooks others, the survivors have to unhook eventually to not throw the match, ending the DS protection.
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DS has a condition be hooked. People apparently forget that old DS had no condition. Also if the perk was really was anti tunnel like the devs have stated where are the deactivation conditions? The devs have lied, actions speak louder than words, when it comes to DS everyone is quick to believe them.
0 -
Just have it deactivate on EGC or after the last gen pops. You've had all game to not get tunneled.
Every instance except locker can be countered by slugging. And I'd rather eat a locker DS than get Head On'd.
1 -
I'm more or less okay with DS staying the way it is, but I'm interested in the discussion. What if successfully using DS gave you a deep wound, like using Borrowed Time or whatever, so that you had to get out of chase and scuttle off somewhere to mend yourself?
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no need to exclude the others. why should someone tap totems or gates if not planning to finish the action? Also, gate tapping would be possible. Release after 2.5s and you finish the gate anyway while being invulnerable. Do you have an explanation why you want the 3s counter? I would simply say, the survivor should take the decision if he wants to cancel the counter or FIRST look for heals, a medkit or whatever.
That would be like the first version of BT, which was changed for a reason. And you stated the reason: "no matter which survivor the killer hits". This has no counterplay. This allows just stupid headless play for survivors.
BTW I love the change that it can be used multiple times, when it is changed to be true anti tunnel. That would make true tunneling super worthless.
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You say make it use it twice no so the four survivor can use it 8 time and waste the killer time big time like come on DS need to get Nerf.
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Not use DS nanny time that is abuse.
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Oh yea I want that.
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It isn't, because you can get tunneled after killer eats ds.
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