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Ds doesn't need a nerf, it needs...
Comments
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So you a ds survivor because when survivor defend DS and think everything is fine with it then they are brain dead.
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If you get downed the killer will walk away, and then you can be healed, if the killer stands and waits out the DS, he wasted 45 seconds, which is 1 1/2 gens for a single hook.
The reason i say you need to be fully healed 1 health state or heal for 1 health state is to prevent a survivor unhooking you and immediately trying to heal you and deactivate your perk. You shouldn't be punished because your teammate made a bad decision.
Basing it on the survivors actions is the ONLY way to balance it, or you will have survivors who just do a gen in the killer's face where you can do nothing. Remember i'm not talking about average survivors, i have 1.2k hours and am rank 1. When MMR was out i probably was top tier (although matchmaking was stupid.)
I'm talking about good survivors, who will do a gen with DS and if you get too close they hop into a locker. This forces you to either wait out the 60 seconds for the DS, or leave. If you wait out the 60 seconds, you lose the game, because now the other 3 survivors are going to finish a gen each. If you leave, then that survivor is going to finish the gen with no pressure on them because they are effectively immune. Now, the best decision there is obviously to just leave the DS survivor because the time efficiency is better to ignore them and go after someone else. But, now add i'm talking about 1k+ hour survivors. Now add that all 4 survivors probably have DS. If survivors play this way with DS (don't even get me started about SWF) then you can't do anything. And 60 seconds is too short to base on killers actions a lot of the time. So you go hook someone else and then come back, sure it'll be gone, but they still had 60 seconds of free time to do w/e they want.
The problem is not DS as an anti-tunnel perk. The problem is high level survivors playing hyper efficiently on a team with 4 DSs, having 60 seconds of literal immunity to the killer with 0 counterplay possible from the killer.
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My idea, when DS is activated, the survivor can't be hit for say 10 seconds. That allows for plenty of time to find a loop.
The killer can still tunnel you for those 10 seconds, but they will be wasting their time in trying to down you. Maybe for those 10 seconds you also don't leave scratch marks, to help prevent the tunnel.
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Can someone please link me the comment where Peanits said that Decisive Strike never was intended to be and never will be a "Anti-tunneling" perk so I can copy and paste that every time one of these dumb threads pop up.
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"If you get downed the killer will walk away, and then you can be healed, if the killer stands and waits out the DS, he wasted 45 seconds, which is 1 1/2 gens for a single hook."
And if the timer would be stopped when downed, the killer could wait indefinitely. That of course requires another way to deactivate the timer, which would be hooking / unhooking with my killer-action oriented approach. With your surivor-action oriented approach, of course you could not do this, since the downed survivor can hardly disable it.
"The reason i say you need to be fully healed 1 health state or heal for 1 health state is to prevent a survivor unhooking you and immediately trying to heal you and deactivate your perk. You shouldn't be punished because your teammate made a bad decision."
So for some channeling actions its enough to begin wiht it, for others it needs to be finished to deactivate the DS. Thats really no good design, imo. There's just to much that can be messed up in development / patches. Thats why I wanted to point out my idea, bc its way more simple: Another survivor is unhooked, the prior last hooked loses it's DS, and the new last unhook will get it if he has DS equipped.
"Basing it on the survivors actions is the ONLY way to balance it, or you will have survivors who just do a gen in the killer's face where you can do nothing. Remember i'm not talking about average survivors, i have 1.2k hours and am rank 1. When MMR was out i probably was top tier (although matchmaking was stupid.)"
Basing it on the survivor acitons is a way to prevent abuse of the perk, but that weakens it's anto-tunnel potential, imo (the killer could wait for the unhooked to do an action that deactivates it, and then come back tunneling). Basing it on the killer actions, meaning the killer has to hook another / get another unhooked to deactivate the DS of a recently unhooked one, makes for a way better tunneling protection, with the potential to some abuse by the survivors, sure. But that wouldn't be so different from now. You really have to make a decisions whats more important to you, restricting abuse or better anti-tunnel protection, you cannot have both.
"I'm talking about good survivors, who will do a gen with DS and if you get too close they hop into a locker. This forces you to either wait out the 60 seconds for the DS, or leave. If you wait out the 60 seconds, you lose the game, because now the other 3 survivors are going to finish a gen each. If you leave, then that survivor is going to finish the gen with no pressure on them because they are effectively immune. Now, the best decision there is obviously to just leave the DS survivor because the time efficiency is better to ignore them and go after someone else. But, now add i'm talking about 1k+ hour survivors. Now add that all 4 survivors probably have DS. If survivors play this way with DS (don't even get me started about SWF) then you can't do anything. And 60 seconds is too short to base on killers actions a lot of the time. So you go hook someone else and then come back, sure it'll be gone, but they still had 60 seconds of free time to do w/e they want."
If they jump into a locker and you have no imidiate new target, you waste no time and eat the stun, Still better than leaving or waiting at the locker. Sure there are games were the gens are done to fast and you cannot really do something about it. But thats not solely due to DS being abused (you can still slug). If you consistently need more than 60 seconds do down a survivor, you won't win the game regardless. If we really want to make sure that the survs do not do a gen while under DS protection, then just adding a cancel if he touches a gen is enough, given that we also keep the condition that unhooks deactivate DS as well.
"The problem is not DS as an anti-tunnel perk. The problem is high level survivors playing hyper efficiently on a team with 4 DSs, having 60 seconds of literal immunity to the killer with 0 counterplay possible from the killer."
Thats why I'm in for a change to make it true anti-tunnel. Giving it a hook / unhook condition would effectively limit it to max one DS active at a time (and it's the literal counterplay), so it's not even such a big deal if all 4 run it, given you are spreading the damage. Imo, the most stupid DS hits are the ones where you already hooked two other people and still get hit by a 59s DS. Thats the thing I would like to see changed the most. The obvious DS baits are not an issue, you take the stun or slug them. The sneaky 59s DS stuns are the issue, that shouldn't be possible.
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It’s not going to work unfortunately. The timer not ticking down in a chase just won’t work during endgame. Any unhooked survivors will be guaranteed an exit.
While with current DS if you down them far enough from the exit gate you still have a chance of securing the kill.
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Yes they said it's an anti-momentum perk, but they fail to realise that anti-tunnel is just a subset of anti-momentum, imo, bc. the condition for activating an anti-momentum perk are much more general than for anti-tunnel, by design. So if you have an anti-momentum perk, you can also use it in an anti-tunnel context. So DS IS an anti-tunnel perk, it is even more! And that's exactly the issue with it.
As an anti-tunnel perk, which many see in DS and only take it with them for some tunneling protection, it can be underwhelming. As an anti-momentum perk it works much better, and thats the despised application of it. I have honestly no idea why the devs think we need yet another anti-momentum perk, which punishes killer performing well. We already have Adrenaline and UB, which can work great for anti- momentum.
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This perk needs an overhaul... My changes (feel free to roast me later)
2 uses (buff)
active for 30 seconds (nerf) but if being chased it'll add time up to 60 seconds (buff)
Stun time remains the same for the obsession but 3 seconds if it's non-obsession (net nerf)
Deactivates: Healing, Hitting a repair skillcheck, entering a locker, cleansing a totem (overall nerf)
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If I recall, it used to be 15 seconds, and could be used every time you came off the hook. Killers still weren't happy, because they couldn't reliably camp/tunnel people right off the hook. Now that it is a separate perk, of course survivors are able to turn it into an offensive perk. It all really relies on how much more experienced the killer is.
At the end of the day, killers are not going to be able to down someone fresh off a hook, simply pick them up, and put them back on the hook. People need to accept that. Tunneling and camping, as strategies, need to get gone, and of course, that is going to upset killers that have basically relied on them instead of their actual skill with their powers, perks, and add-ons. Killers that play that way are the reason devs had to put counters like DS in to begin with. There is no "simply don't get caught." Chases are inherently stacked in favor of killers. They are faster and gain speed the longer they chase you. Survivors get pallets, but pallets are limited, and many killers can simply ignore pallets anyway. So, no, survivors shouldn't have to be punished via a face-camping/tunneling killer for losing a chase that is already stacked against them. That's why they get perks to help counter, just like killers get perks and also have built-in powers to further help them. Killers also get add-ons that survivors can't see (unlike the ad-ons killers can see on survivors), and the killer add-ons last the duration of the match, not just a few seconds. Killer also still get the lag advantage that hands them hits that clearly missed, or enables them to smack someone 20 feet through a window or a pallet. Even the best survivors will be caught if the killer commits to a chase for at least 30 seconds, and isn't a dumb tool. I'd be fine if they removed half of those perks if they made killers the same speed as survivors, and required them to simply mind-game better, but that isn't going to happen either.
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I'd be fine with it deactivating once being healed, doing a generator or a totem, but opening the gate? Nah, I still want to escape fam.
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I don't see of point of it being 2 time use perk but other then that I'm all for it with one caviat: Disable it if other survivor gets hooked.
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