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Regarding Trapper....
The recent and upcoming changes to him were good. Previously he was the Killer with the most counterplay by far . Sabo could negate his power almost entirely. He couldn´t reset traps on the ground without picking them up despite him having a base carrying capacity of only 1 Trap at a time.
My complaint now is that he still faces the most hardships of the Killer roster.
There are perks that hurt him more so than any other Killer:
Slippery meat - this is going to be addressed, great!
Small Game - With the meta shift we are experiencing, this perk will become more prevalent. Darn, Trapper.
Object of Obsession: Self explanatory. It crushes Trappers ability, forcing him to be a pathetic M1 Killer.
It doesn´t end there though. As of now, Trapper is the only Killer to considerably suffer from luck offerings and perks. I understand they implemented the mechanic back when he was the only Killer and it kinda made sense then. In today´s standards it´s unfair.
Items - Maps hurt him. At least Hag has a chance to react if the Survivors find one of her traps if she´s close enough. Trapper doesn´t get that luxury. Expect more maps with the rise of totem builds...
SWF - Trapper suffers from the balance issues that come with it more so than any other Killer. It only takes one Survivor to spot him placing a trap, be it from behind a bush or from the hook, and it´s immediately rendered completely useless.
Addons- He´s very addon dependant. Without the use of at least the brown bag he´s hindered immensely, some claim borderline unplayable.
The traps themselves - Disarming as well as rescue and escape time are way too fast. I´m guilty of being a bit biased in that regard but I´d be happy if rescue and escape times were doubled on a ptb to see if Trapper all of a sudden became an insanely oppressive S-Tier Killer.
Yet the worst issue for Trapper is having to slooowly walk across the map, pick up traps, walk where he wants to place them, then walk where another trap lies and carry that one to where it will -hopefully- yield good results for him. No other Killer has to invest such a huge amount of time just for being able to use his power.
For how many ways there are to avoid the Bear Traps , be it by the aforementioned or just by Survivors not going where the Trapper prepared, the benefits are mediocre. Injured Survivors aren´t even harmed if they step on them!
Sure, many people that have play Trapper extensively have had insanely great Snowballs, but it´s far too inconsistent.
For being the first Killer and the literal face of the game he´s in a very bad spot. What a shame.
Comments
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Trapper is the weakest killer in the game. I know a lot of people don't like to believe it, but even if you magically don't bring in an anti-trapper perk or item, even if the Trapper gets a good map to hide his traps... He works in the precise opposite way to how killers need to work. He has a massively, massively slow startup that hands out gens like candy. Then, when he's all set up, all nice and proper, and remember we're talking about a favourable scenario here... He's not that strong. Oni and Hag both have the same problem, but when they're all finished and set up (which takes a lot less time than Trapper) they are considerably stronger, and they don't really have to rely on getting a small number of favourable maps. Even Myers, the basic boy, one of the weakest killers in the game whose only strent is being easy to play, is stronger that a killer whose power is supposed to stop you dead in your tracks.
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but when you dare to point out that his setup takes way too long and suggest him having his traps available from the very getgo (as literally every other trap based killer in this game already has), you are called a lunatic, because that would be "super overpowered"...
i would like to humbly disagree on that part where you said he was weak even with a setup. his traps a deadly af, the only problem is that the mechanics for how they work are extremely outdated - imagine traps not being RNG and instead having a set, relatively lengthy, escape time to them. that alone would make him infinitely better than what he currently is, give him all traps in hand at the beginning and nerf how certain survivor perks affect his power (as they did with Slippery Meat just now) and he could be quite a scary presence to encounter.
he doesnt need a whole lot, but he definitely needs something.
regarding his map reliability, there isnt a whole lot you can do about that tbh, thats just the way his power works - generally speaking, given you dont get an indoor map, he can be played at least decently on most maps though.
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Thank you. Seems I failed to address my point clearly enough regarding his setup strength.
I´ve been a trapper main for quite some time, he was my go-to Killer if I really wanted to win at rank 1. Until I had a very nasty streak against Object teams, currently on a break from Trapper
I´m well aware that his power allows for incredible snowballs, those are some of my fondest DBD memories ever.
I appreciate your ideas and I agree - it´s not that much that had to be done to make him more viable.
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That would be overpowered. Otz made a video showcasing why. Basically, the first survivor he comes to gets zoned into a loop, he puts down traps, and the survivor is screwed because if they left the loop they got hit, if they disarmed a trap they got hit, and if they stayed they got hit. That was with the 2 strongest bag add-ons.
There is a middle ground between 0 counterplay killer and having 2-3 basekit traps that can't be tracked by maps or perks (except small game, that perk works with all traps).
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yeah he can do that how many times (basekit)? 6?
okay, he locks down 6 loops like that, then he is a M1 Killer with nothing but an easily avoidable / disarmable trap setup, who'd need to backtrack the entire chase he did with that survivor in case he would want to ever use his traps again. if you do that you might get the first chase done easily, then you waste as much time as you would without the change and lose tons of gens anyway. i fail to see how that is OP, sorry.
especially when considering that both Freddy and Hag already do that, but with unlimited amounts of traps at their disposal AND more active traps at once by default.
so its not okay for Trapper, but its a-okay for those two?
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Trapper is better than Wraith. Wraith is unmitigated trash.
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It's rare I play Trapper without ultra rare add ons+bag (he's my P3 bloodpoint dump - I can afford to do that) but you really don't have a reason to play with anything less. Trapper needs something else. I don't know what, but he needs something. Window traps. Pallet traps. Something. Land mines are great but he's the face of the game. Make him shine.
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He just needs the brown trapper bag to be basekit. Being almost required to use a bag at all times really limits how creative you can be with his add-on combinations.
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Wraith without addons is fairly trash - Windstorm (Even the yellow one) + his other addons like Iris Coxcomb Clapper (Silent Bell) and "All Seeing" - Blood (Aura within 12 meters while stealthed)" make him arguebly a stronger killer than Trapper who is running Iridescent or Honing Stone + Blood Coil. Both are far too addon dependent and base Trapper without a brown bag is just an eyesore having to shuffle 1 trap at a time across the map wasting minutes just to setup anything at the start... Can't even lock down a loop with a single trap in many cases either (usually requiring 2 if you have to zone them to the bad side first so they can't just transfer tiles).
Basically what @DaKnight said where Brown bag should be base kit and his other bag addons are adjusted accordingly. @Mister_xD also brings up something I brought up in other threads about Trapper buffs about reworking how Luck works, Bear traps and Pig's Reverse Bear Traps that all should just have set values so the killer (AND survivors) can make informed decisions rather than being a dice roll. Overall his gameplay is fairly strong lategate similar to Hag and both have counter play in having people dedicated to "Harass" the killer rather than letting him get to critical mass on his "web"... Trapper just needs direct quality of life changes to make him at least average in more scenarios.
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this what I think should happen.
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Eh, sorry for the shitpost. I was just salty after trying and failing to get my Wraith daily... spectacularly. Had to kill someone with my own hand. Forget that, couldn't even hook someone with my own hand... lol.
Wraith may be an underpowered killer - it doesn't help I'm also pure trash with him.
Trapper is fun to play - great killer for baby killers to play vs. baby survivors, but he just hasn't aged well in the meta. At all. And it's hard to buff him without making him very frustrating to play against at low ranks. Best I can think of is allowing him to start with the ability to carry 1 more trap (like having the bag)... OR having all his traps start closer to the center of the map, so he doesn't have to spend like 45 seconds going into a dead area if he wants to collect a trap.
Wraith and Trapper both need a mechanics update IMHO.
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Agreed. I´d argue though that he´s actually kinda viable if you put a HUGE amound of hours into him and watch oz a lot ;-)
But seriously, something needs to be done to lessen the time required to use traps. The way they tend to spawn it´s often better to not bother trying to use them for it would cost too many gens for a rather minor benefit.
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I luv playing trapper. He just needs something to give him a little help from the start. He can have a pretty strong end game with good trap placement, but he loses precious time getting set up in the beginning. I like the idea of him starting with more traps, or maybe start the match with a few random traps already set. Like maybe 5 traps. That way he can have a little help, and breathing room while getting a more strategic set up.
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Otz is a trapper main and a bit biased when it comes to the extent of buffs he would like to see on Trapper BUT many of the shortcomings around the killer are legitimate and even starting with making a brown bag addon base would fix basically being forced to run Iris stone (The newb's approach to trapping if people keep disarming you) or some form of bag no matter what (Similar to Wraith having a Windstorm requirement to be viable).
Getting unlucky trap spawns in the far dead corners of large maps like Ormond or Swamp is usually a feels bad disappointment as well that - unused traps being forced to being near generators so you can naturally patrol would be a fix for that issue.
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I´d argue that Otz isn´t even that biased tbh. From what I can tell he´s a humble and reasonable guy, but opinions differ of course.
Case in point he´s strictly against letting trapper start with all of his traps as that might make him way too oppressive.
I´ve read about the windstorm issue several times now. I occasionally play Wraith but I don´t feel as hindered without Windstorm as I do with Trapper without a bag, but that´s just my opinion.
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I mean I could link you a video where he suggests that Honing Stone (The purple addon that makes survivors down themselves if they try to free themselves from a bear trap) becomes base kit ontop of making freeing allies from traps take longer. He also really likes the green addon Tar Traps for good reason but another thing that probably shouldn't be base kit just like Honing Stones. Talk about oppressive if Trapper were to get all of that ontop of the QoL changes he badly needs.
For the most part, his suggestions like having a set time rather than "Luck" influenced RNG and being able to pick up multiple traps without HAVING to run a bag is reasonable. I watch his videos and stream and think he's pretty humble in general, knowledgeable about the game and has a good likeable demeanor. I would even go as far to say a lot of what he says about game balance as a whole lines up with most of my personal opinions too (just his frustrations with playing Trapper all the time and getting cucked made him say some things in 2~3 videos about major buffs he wants seen on Trapper that go a bit overboard).
Edit: P.S. He is a far better killer than me and probably who I would "fanboy"ing say is in that top 0.5% of english speaking killers who stream and having a large following for good reason
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He still desperately needs changes. Half the Trapper games I'm in are kinda pathetic and the Trapper has to sweat their ass off and make no mistakes to even get a 2k, and the other half are basement snowballs which either lead to a 2k or a free win in 60 seconds. It's really dumb
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Can relate. It´s highly inconsistent but it´s kinda a core aspect of playing trapper.
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As trapp Daddy main, I find him very viable and enjoy the challenges playing him causes. I really don't understand when people say he's terrible. There aren't many great trapper players, and that's alright. There are also a lot more bad trapper players cause he's very popular with new players.
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Nice! It´s so rare meeting an experienced trapper main. I wonder, do you agree with my assessment? Do you have something do add, maybe?
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I feel like Trapper should be able to hold two traps at base, and maybe let him summon his disabled traps from maybe 32 meters. That'd make him a lot better, imo.
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Nothing you said is inherently wrong. All of these things do make playing Trapper hard. I do have a thing to say about add-on dependency:
He is! Games are about twice as hard w/o bag add-ons. But, I really don't see the huge issue with this, add-ons are meant to be used. Along with this somewhat related is the recommendation of two traps as base kit on trapper. Yes, this will make him easier to play and use his power! But, I don't see the *need* for it. Get what I'm saying?
All this is coming from someone who's worked past the starting phase of learning Trapper.
As it stands right now, there are two groups of people. Those who don't play Trapper besides for dailies/new players and those who main him hardcore. There are just a lot of things you need to keep in mind while being a good Trapper. The ability to memorize and improvise good trap placements is key. During that you need to still keep pressure up and constantly think 'is going over here to pick up a trap a poor use of time?'. That just takes a long time and experience to do. The skill ceiling is harder to get to and not as high as other killers, so most people will pick up another one instead.
TLDR;
Nothing you said is wrong! Get good with playtime and it will be easier. Try new things. Trapper is as viable as the time you put into learning him. It might be more effort than it's worth lol.
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Thanks for your input!
Regarding your division into groups I´d lean towards the latter. I agree that he takes much more experience to play effectively than almost any other Killer, but it´s so rewarding when everything comes together.
I disagree however with your take on addons to a degree. Yes, of course they are meant to be used, yet in my opinion a Killer´s base power should generally allow for decent usage.
For example, I play Oni and Myers almost always without addons except maybe tacky earrings on Myers because I have like 300 of them but they function pretty dam well still. The 2 trap base capacity, what many suggest, could solve this issue quite easily.
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