Tunneling isn't 'Strategy'
I've seen the arguments between those for and against tunnelling. Most of who agree with it are killer mains.
They say its not 'toxic' but a form of 'strategy' and 'skill'. Now I don't know what's clever and well played about hitting the same person over and over again, but that's just me lol.
I'm not totally against tunneling, ive seen killers try their best and get zero hooks, gen rushed and swf'd. All killers want at least a kill and if its endgame, there's no other way but to go after the one whose just been unhooked. It's up to the teammates to bodyblock and distract.
Tunnelling isn't strategy or skill, but merely a form of last resort for kills.
P.S My opinion!
Comments
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I mean, it technically is a strategy. A brainless and skill-less one at that.
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Yes it is
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It's a strategy if the killer wants to win. By hooking each survivor once or twice before any of them die, the killer is gimping themselves. It's a winning strategy, but not the most fun one (for survivors anyway).
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Technically it is yeah, but it's so thoughtless and basic it might as well not be lol
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Most definetly a skill-less one if so
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It's still a strategy
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Tunneling is only a strategy killers should use if they have almost no chance to win. Like if there's 2 gens left, you have no kills, and the survivor you just hooked is second hook it can be really beneficial to tunnel them or if you find someone else dead on hook than go kill them. I only ever tunnel if there is 2 gens and one a couple people are on death hook. If three or more people are dead on hook or someone is already dead than I play as nice as I can while still attempting to win.
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Agreed. It's sad that the game rewards killers like that for playing without any real skills.
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It is a strategy if it helps you win the game.
So, tunnelling is, technically, a strategy.
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You're using words wrong. Strategy doesn't necessarily involve skill or planning. Shooting yourself in the foot is a strategy. If you want to define words your own way you're welcome to but no one else is obligated to care.
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Agreed, the fact that I see red ranks tunnelling and using the excuse 'You were closer' is dissapointing
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It's a very effective strategy.
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Yeah it's a strategy I guess, but the fact it requires no skill what so ever is offensive to even call it a strategy
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Agreed. A strategy is nothing more than a plan. Whether it is a good plan or a bad plan is the debate.
That being said, by OP logic, stealthing when 2 survivors are left in hopes of being the one to get hatch isnt a strategy either. Its unfun and boring and survivors shouldn't be awarded for using that kind of playstyle.
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Effective, but it doesn't increase your skills in the slightest
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Of course it's a strategy. Not only is it a strategy, but it's a dominant strategy.
So long as you accept the definition of the term strategy, it's not even a matter of opinion.
Official Definition of Strategy:
"a plan of action or policy designed to achieve a major or overall aim."
Tunneling perfectly fits this definition, since it's a pre-planned course of action intended to give you an advantage in the goal of Killing all 4 Survivors.
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Your right, I should of titled it 'Tunneling isn't skill'
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Let's change the focus a little then.
Yes I guess I claimed the definition of strategy wrong.
What if I said this:
*Tunneling isnt skill*
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I do however think that tunneling is the unhookers fault if you know for a fact that there's no DS in the game, you unhook right in front of the killer and you don't have Borrowed. There should be a perk that if you unhook a survivor while in a chase you become exposed because unhooking someone knowing you'll get downed is one of the worst mistakes a survivor can make and they can give killers soooooooo much pressure.
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I only find tunnelling to be toxic in early game(5 or 4 gens left) and I would say it is a strategy when applied properly for a 4k....
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I can see what you mean and it is pretty lame when a killer tunnels, but isn't getting a player out of the game as fast as possible the best way to win? Once one person is dead, the efficiency of the remaining survivors drops a considerable amount.
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Then you can in principle be correct.
Although I would instead word it "Tunneling doesn't require skill", since skill is something a player has not something a strategy or game element has.
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Either way though, it's not a particularly productive point to make regardless of the truth.
Depending on your objective I would either try to prove that Tunneling is:
A: Overpowered - And thus should be nerfed by the devs (preferably with some idea's on what changes would fix it)
B: Suboptimal - And thus should be dropped by the Killers using it in favor of more effective strategies (which you should specify)
C: Counterable - And thus Survivors should change their own strategy in order to prevent tunneling (again, specify how)
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I hate that end game scenario(2 UE around while in and out of lockers). When I play survivor I tend to immediately jump on a gen and if I'm found I'm found. The 10 minute endings with 2 survivors and 4 gens sucks...I tend to now just check lockers and get get those "holy shiite, I found ya" moments sometimes
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For example, we don't nerf the "blendette hiding in a corner while waiting for 3 Survivors to die for a hatch escape" strategy, because that strategy is already terrible and thus Survivors already learn not to do that by trying it and dying as a result until they learn better.
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First, I'm retty sure you have no idea if someone is a killer main or not, I guess you just assume to give your argumentation more weight.
I never heard someone say it takes skill tbh. And if someone gives their best to tunnel and gets 0 hooks, he didnt tunnel at all. He commited to a chase. Everyone complains about tunneling for the most stupid reasons. Tunneling should normally not even be yelled when you get hooked twice in a row. Tunneling is when you die as quick as possible, ignoring other targets for the sake of a quick kill. And 0 hooks is far away from a kill...
And talking about this "original" form of tunneling, then it isn't the last resort, it is the first point on the agenda. And this is the style that sucks to go against. The "last resort" thing is the one noone should actually complain about, but there comes the entitlement. "We did so good, we deserve a 4 escape". Where people mark a game as "bad" because they died to tunneling. The 90% gg part is erased. Would be no problem if people just wouldn't define a game by escapes, then there would be way less complaining about tunneling
Whataboutism... not of any value regarding the discussion
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Define "skill' then. Because to me decision-making process looks like an important part of skill, and not using a simple and effective strategy that can bring you a victory is always a bad decision if you want to win.
However, if you are always tunneling no matter what, that's a clear lack of skill, cuz there is a lot of things in this game other than kills.
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thats like saying gen rushing isnt a strategy.... its the survivors job to get gens done and its killers job to get kills.
If gens pops fast then you should also get kills fast.
If gens pop slow maybe then your kills can also go slow and you as killer can play more casual.
It really come down to what team you are up against. SWF with toolbox or solos with medkits
Survivors have tools and perks to deal with tunneling like killers have tools and perks to deal with gen rushing.
"tunneling dosent requier any skill" is illogical, you still need to chase down and catch the survivor again which requiers skills especially if its a good survivor that can last a long time in chases and make good reads on your mindgames
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then your not skillful if you dont know when to leave chase and gain pressure
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its a strategy just a very scummy one
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Yeah, this is why I'm on the fence about tunneling. I play both sides and although it frustrates me no end to just get 1-2-3 hooked, I recognize as a survivor that it's my own fault some of the time - and that it's not another portion of the time.
As a killer, sometimes it's a matter of desperation or opportunity. Often I try to spread hooks out but if necessary, as with playing survivor... Anything goes if it gets to the goal.
At the end of the day, if I am a killer, I justify anything that kills the opposition and as a survivor... well, do I survive at all costs or give up?
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I don't want to speculate, but the winning chances of survivors when only 3 are left and at least 3 gens are up, are down the toilet. So taking out one in the early game where the survivors are the strongest, is a very good strategy to secure a win.
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It takes a lot of hard work and coordination to "gen rush" and "abuse safe loops" (Okay the only "safe" loops I'll give you is the house on ormond because that loop is pretty damn safe). Gen rushing isn't actually a problem if you have perks like Corrupt that stop them from getting one or two gens done too early, and paired with a few information perks so you know which gens they're working on, it's hard NOT to apply pressure to the gens so they don't do them too effectively. And there are no completely safe loops in Dead by Daylight except for the pallets you have to break, but even then just because you have to break a pallet doesn't mean that survivor will run you for the rest of the game, and if they do you committed to that chase WAY too long. You should've stopped at one gen nevermind five. If a survivor is looping you at a pallet really really well then just break it. Even if you just break every pallet that gets thrown immediately you still gain something from that.
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The game is outright designed to encourage tunneling, given the obvious tactical advantage of kicking out of match opponents ASAP. Even if the developers don't want to admit it, the state of the game speaks for itself; four vs three pairs of hands make a huge difference.
I've always felt that to encourage a more "diverse palette" of survivor attention - thereby allowing for wider and fairer distribution of match activities for everyone - the general approach is to let the killer increasingly get buffed, or survivors increasingly get nerfed, for every different survivor that gets chased/hooked. i.e. Hooking all four individual survivors in sequence yields a more advantageous match circumstance than from simply discriminating one particular survivor.
So a three-person crew who had a team mate quickly ejected out early in match (because of obsessive tunneling) will actually work more efficiently than if all four survive longer into late match. It might feel counter-intuitive but when killers know profoundly how much advantage they can get from otherwise, then tunneling will cease to be a favourable tactic.
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Ya it isn't skill however looking and knowing who to tunnel first can be the difference in a 2 and a 4k as you want the weaking survivors first.
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It's not a fun, interesting, or skillful strategy, but it's still a strategy.
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I tunnel when it is in my best interests.
If I see 2 survivors and 1 is healthy while the other is injured. I'm going after the injured one. Less time spent chasing.
If someone is pulled off the hook right in front of me, I assume they have BT or DS or both. So I go after who made the save. Also that injured person is probably going to spend time healing. If everyone is healthy while one person is hooked, there is hardly any pressure. Gens will fly by if I don't at least injure someone else.
If I hooks someone and leave. If am I already chasing someone else when the save is made I won't give up my current chase. If I were to break off and head back to the hook, they may be gone by the time I get there. I gave up one chase in the hopes of getting another.
Now if I am away from the hook and I haven't found anyone by the time the save is made, I might go back to the hook. If I fail to locate the rescuer but I see a blood trail, then I'm going after the same person again. Not because I want them gone right away but because there is no one else and ignoring this chance to hook someone again is counter productive.
If I see 2 survivors and I know for a fact 1 is on death hook and they don't have DS anymore. I will go after them because it will remove them from the game and increase my odds of completing my objective.
Say the gates are open and I got no kills but 1 person on the hook. Yeah I will ignore everyone else body blocking and go for them because there is no other way for me to secure a kill at this point.
What I'm trying to say is everything I do as killer is with purpose. If I face camp, tunnel, mori it's not to be a dick. It's because I am doing whatever I can to fulfill my objective. If I bring an ebony it's either for a daily or I saw a key :P
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"there are no completely safe loops except for the completely safe loops"
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I get it may not be the most fun to be tunneled, but how is it skill-less or not strategic?
Chases require the same elements regardless.
Now if its about spreading pressure effectively then tunneling ain't great if you have only one injured and everyone healthy, but that's just a bad play. Now if you have good pressure across multiple wounded survivors and some on death hook. The choice to tunnel one out becomes very advantageous.
You may also tunnel someone down when you get the hit on a healthy rescuer, to have them speed burst into a very strong loop leaving the recently unhooked out of position in a relatively dead zone. It is now kinda stupid of you to continue to chase the rescuer when you can reset the pressure you just had by downing the unhooked quickly and slugging or re-hooking them. The decision to do this is a tactical one based on where current survivors are positioned post unhook.
Are you sure tunneling requires no skill or strategy or is it more a case of "I got tunneled and it pissed me off so I'm gonna rant about it,"
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LOL what? It's very much a strategy.
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It's not completely safe dummy. You can play around it, it just takes more than 5 brain cells to accomplish.
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once again very much depends on the situation you're in.
there are times where "tunneling" is the right thing to do - then again, what even is "tunneling" for you? everyone has their own definition of it and im sick of people calling me a "tunneler" for hooking them after achieving two seperate hooks inbetween their hooks - yes they exist.
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Tunneling is a tactic used in your overall strategy. You use it when you see the need , but as a killer your overall game strategy should be more in depth.
If tunneling is your strategy, then that killer is not a good killer.
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It may not rise to a strategy, but it is a tactic. And you can certainly build a larger strategy around it as you work out your Generator pressure strategy. Most Killers, myself included, can identify a Key or a particularly dangerous Player. For example, if I figure out someone has OoO, I put them down and tunnel them out of the game. It isn't personal, but against a SWF the force amplifier of that Perk is broken as hell. If someone has a Key, and I don't have a better target, I most certainly will kill them quick.
Tunneling can be used to cut the head off the snake. Quite often I see really POTENT Rank Survivors running with 2-3 Potatoes (or at least 7+ Ranks lower than themselves). This appears to be for the express purpose of ensuring a less skilled Killer. You know what? It takes me less than twenty seconds to tell them apart, the Red Rank and the entourage. I'm going to tunnel the Red Rank.
- I think what the Red Rank is doing is sketchy.
- The Red Rank clearly would do the most damage to me over the course of the match.
- I take a certain satisfaction in killing Red Ranks, even if the Rank-18 or 20 get away.
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I find myself tunneling often you want some insight?
Teabagging will get you tunneled
If I didn't bring in my obsession perk & my game has an obsession
Your getting tunneled.
If your name has TTV or YT GTFO your getting tunneled.
We don't tunnel because we're losing
We tunnel because survivors unknowingly ask for it.
Welp the secrets out. & I'm not a main of one side.
I play both equally.
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Its a strategy, like any other it can cost you. If a killer establishes themselves as being a tunneler/camper then the survivors need to be smart enough to pound out those gens while they're occupied and let the victim of the ######### playstyle die.
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Since Tunneling is such a broad term, I´m really curious as of how you define it since you seem to have a distain for this act.
In the last 2 weeks or so there was only one match where I felt I got tunneled - the Killer (Ghostface) camped me while in NIghtshroud, teammates made a bad save (I have yet to play a match in a SWF). Got chased down within 5 seconds or so, back on the hook I went.
If however I play Killer, a common occurence goes like this: I hook a Survivor and move away to check the closest 3-4 gens. If there is no one there I go back to the hook since it´s reasonable to assume someone has moved in for the save. Of course this was correct. Now it can go two ways: The unhooker takes the aggro and I chase him. Fine.
Or the unhooker does not, in which case I´m usually more likely to find the recently unhooked Survivor. I´m gonna slug (DS, ya know) and look for the unhooker then. Did I tunnel?
Should I ignore the two Survivors that I know are in the proximity to check the gens I know aren´t being worked on? Should I spend 60 seconds to sloowly walk across the map to -hopefully- find someone there and let them heal and regroup for free?
Many questions, I know, but I´m genuinely curious because I´ve gotten accused of tunneling in the past for this very common scenario. Nowadays not so much, maybe because red rank survivors are on average a bit more knowledgeable about the game.
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Focusing someone out of the game at 2 gens or something when all survivors alive isn't really tunneling, I think. Real tunneling is just following one person around the whole match and hooking them three times in a row, completely ignoring other survivors (or lashing out just enough to make them back off) and generally throwing the game to kill someone.
It is extremely important to get a kill before you're down to 2 gens, and failing to do so basically forces your hand.
In most cases, if you choose to continue playing super fair, it'll cost you quite badly. I should know, I go out of my way to play super fair, and when I can't secure those early kills by getting lots of hooks, I tend to lose much harder because I still refuse to "tunnel" most of the time. That changes once the gates are powered (even for me, all bets are off once all the gens are done, it's on you guys to get out at that point, you've gotten tons of bloodpoints and aren't going to depip) but at that point it's generally too late.
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Yes, it´s also my rule of thumb. If you are down to two gens with 4 Survivors you are basically guaranteed to lose, it´s paramount to have at least 1 person killed by then to still stand a chance.
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Why make multiple threads on this?
Also - yes, yes it is. And a necessary one at that. If you have a key or a toolbox, it's in my interest to get rid of you first. You made yourself a high priority target, not me.
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