The devs missed the point on PH's power
While the complaints around PH's ability to zone with his power and most PH players reluctance to actually use the power were valid, I feel like the devs completely missed the point as to why PH players mostly fake it.
I'm not faking the power because it's too punishing to miss. That's certainly part of it, but the bigger issue is that there's way too much of a telegraph on it and there's not enough flick on it. You can't hit anybody good with it unless they're animation locked or in a choke point. It's a very low percentage power. The survivor only needs to move perpendicular for one or two steps to avoid the attack and PH can't rotate fast enough to compensate.
You can reduce the cooldown on misses all you want, but that's not what is causing me to avoid using the ranged attack. It will always be less efficient to use the attack repeatedly and miss. All the survivor has to do is look at you and stay on your shoulder. They missed the point.
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Amen, they should make the punishment of the damned faster, so survivor can't react as well to it.
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But wait for ptb, so we can see if that is actually true! lul
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Agreed, They're trying but this ain't it. I hope the ptb proves me wrong though.
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As a PH main I’m excited for these changes. I also play survivor, and felt his ability to fake made playing him too easy. His cage, imo, has always been his biggest strength. I’m a little bummed they didn’t balance those a bit. But, excited for the PTB. Should feel better to play and play against.
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Or you could use his power normally and realize that it sucks. The devs could reduce the cooldown after using it to 0 and it would still be awful. Maybe it'll feel better to use but I don't play PH so I dunno but what I do know is that it's super easy to deal with a PH who doesn't zone.There's a reason why people call any PH not zoning a noob PH. Maybe ppl forgot what the PHs were like when he first came out? U have to screw up pretty hard to get hit by his power.
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i thought the lul was enough to indicate sarcasm
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that is actually some critisism i can get behind.
not like most who cry that they cant cheese their chases anymore, you're making a good point there.
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It could just as easily be a lul that you're reacting too quickly and you should wait for the ptb.
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You're far too kind with your words, OP.
Pyramid Head controls like complete garbage. I have no idea why or how the devs assumed it was OK to balance PH's power around him being clunky. They could give him no penalty for launching the ranged attack. They could take away all the telegraphs. It still wouldn't be a fun power to use because he controls like a semi-truck that's missing a few wheels. Compare that to Hillbilly and Blight who are also limited by their ability to control their power but are still fun despite this. They straight up just missed the mark with Pyramid Head.
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They don't care. They've had 3 months to take on board all the feedback but the only feedback they're taking on board with these changes is the survivor feedback. I know people will defend them and say they aren't bias but in this case it's 100% true, the only thing being addressed with these changes are the complaints survivors have had, case in point everyone here telling them his power simply isn't good enough and that the cooldown was never the issue but these people basically get the finger.
The only reason they left PH as he was is to sell the dlc. Now that a new killer is out they can just nerf PH into the ground and leave him with all the other discarded killers.
People wanted this license for ages in the game and this is how Behaviour Interactive treats the IP. It's disgusting. No wonder nobody takes them seriously.
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that is not the first thread about the changes, i dont feel like typing the same thing over and over again so i in that comment just mocked the people who say just wait and see for ptb... yeah like we did with so many killers in the past.
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Like it or not, you aren't supposed to be able to hit good survivors. I don't think that that is in any way an okay design philosophy, and I do hope they make the attack wave move faster, but at the end of the day he can literally hit you through walls so there needs to be at least some broadcasting.
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Huntress: can pull hatchet at pallet to try for a free hit, Survivor can keep running if they think you are going to pull- Mindgame/Outplay potential on both sides
PH: Do either and you get hit
there is a clear difference, the changes sound good for the game
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I think you're missing the point of the post... It's not about having to keep the power as is. It's that PH is too weak with what he has. I think PH needs a whole rework. If they buff his ranged too much than it's another Deathslinger or Huntress. Leave it as is then he's an M1 killer with cages. His range attack will only be good as a noob killer or if they get lucky.
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This ^
It also why I’ve already stopped using Blight.
They’ve made it too easy for survivors to avoid these powers by simply looking backwards.
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Agreed, there's no mindgaming in his power, just see red ######### appearing and flick, PH is countered, bravo.
He is only good at hitting survivors fixed in animation or in thin corridors, he really could use a buff.
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The devs definitely missed the point of the power of the killer they created from scratch. You probably know more than them about how they wanted it to be used.
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Huntress has full control of her movement and a charged hatchet is almost impossible to react to.
PH can only walk forward as strafing and reversing are turned off when using ROJ as well as mouse sensitivity being messed with and turn speed limited.
His power is literal trash and i am shocked konami are allowing them to make PH a joke.
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I wish they would make his PotD linger for a bit so you have a secondary use to it.
It is already telegraphed and slow, so having it linger after firing would function as area denial rather than straight damage. It would fit his theme of "map-manipulation" and give him another option for skillful plays.
Other than that, any small improvements to speed and fixing how clunky his power is would be great.
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I definitely dont think it was the right change for him. If you can't land the punishment and you can't fake it out to get an m1 it makes it far to situational and inconsistent. I mained him for about a month and the way he was you still had a hard time landing hits against good survivor's but it could be done even without animation lock. I'm guessing to many on the lower end of the skill spectrum complained because if your not very good at the game he could seem insanely OP. Well definitely have to see how he plays but I just don't feel like this was the right change for him. Their where so many other ways to go about tweaking his ability for the good of both sides.
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I think with the recent changes they could also give him actual full mouse control instead of limiting it to a set speed. Would help his clunkiness and would make predicting survivors an actually viable strategy. I thought he was gonna play like this in the first place when I heard what his power did, turns out he... didn't, and is instead a clunky boring mess that is only good for hardcore zoning
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A fully charged hatchet is sometimes almost impossible to dodge. However, Huntress is making a clear decision to pull up a hatchet in that scenario, and while she can cancel, there's a detriment to pulling one out too early or too late. The whole interaction requires a lot more input from both sides about who's going to do what next. Additionally, either side can say, "Ahh, damn. I should have done X instead. What I did was stupid" or "That would have been my key to victory, if I'd only read the killer/survivor better". With Pyramid Head, no one (neither survivor nor killer) really thinks that.
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Those situations werent as common as people make them out. As survivor you could loop the pallet the correct way which makes it hard for him to get the angle, or not be greedy and drop the pallet early like you would against certain other killers.
Love how Dead hard can create some lose/lose situations too but of course it’s a survivor perk so its fine because legacy survivor perks can’t ever be touched.
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I know this isn't exactly the topic being discussed in this thread but I wanted to state my 2 cents about PH before PTB drops and we test it.
My issue with the proposed changes has more to do with why is PH next on the chopping block for changes? There are a dozen or more truly abusive things that the community has been begging the developers to change for ages and they continue to ignore them. When I load into a match vs a Huntress and the very first teammate that gets downed auto DC's due to Iri head (usually along with the rest of my team) I see that as a much more pressing issue to be fixing. People hear or see Spirit in a match for 1 second and auto DC. I regularly see PH's who are competent enough to get downs, hooks, and "cancel" loops by using their power efficiently and STILL don't get 4ks. PH isn't that strong.
I would also like to bring up that if they are making changes to PH now, could we please get some add-on changes? I mean his ultra rares are ultra garbage in disguise. He has such a dud set of add-ons and I feel like if they are going over PH now, they mine as well tweak those to make them better while they are at it. I would love some useful add-ons that actually bring diversity in the play style of this killer. Blight's add-ons are amazing and he has only been out a couple weeks and BHVR is already tweaking his. Can PH's add-ons get a little love please?
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I love to see them completely change some of his purple addons. Rust Coloured egg ain't all that great since it's just blindness. Crimson Ceremony Book is a crime against humanity since it literally only gives haemorrhage to tormented people, just to compare Pig has a YELLOW addon that does the same thing. Seal of Metatron could use some looking at as well since playing optimally with it means you might only really get one or two uses out of it the whole match. Assuming the changes go ahead and PH's addons aren't changed then it only reinforces the idea that only the range addons are the only ones worth taking.
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PH's ranged should spread torment trails and should only damage survivors that are already tormented.
Convince me otherwise.
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You know what Pyramid Head players are saying while they chase you?
Ahh #########.. i can't do anything until they are locked in an animation, how boring.
Playing as pyramid head is equally as boring and frustrating as versing one. his power is ######### tier and the dev's failed to fix the reason why nobody uses it outside of an animation lock and just focused on the complaints from survivor mains.
This update makes all situations a lose lose for the killer and survivors will fully dictate his power now.
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And that last line is exactly the reason I’m so annoyed. As a PH player I can see how this will go. The control goes to survivor now which is why I’ll be ditching PH. I got tired of killers like that. Wouldn’t be so bad if I wasn’t tbagged into oblivion by toxic swf and then told post game “your family should catch COVID”.
Everyone wanted PH for years in DBD. We finally get him but this is the worst slap in the face to the franchise since the borked HD collection.
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Please just stop...
Changes has to be done with him OBVIOUSLY and this is the right call on him, just accept it. Also pretty much the same will happen to Deathslinger 100%, so better safe your tears.
Let me look in my cristal ball.. next on the nerf list are:
- Keys
- DS (once survivor is doing any action, DS deactivates)
- Moris
- Unbreakable (recovery speed nerf)
- Infectious Fright (cooldown of ~30 seconds)
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Lol I'm a pyramid main and I think the cages are his weakest aspect. This might also be because I get a hit with my power 90% of the time. The only use I see for his torment is to be used as a super fast mori, negate unhooking perks, or put pressure on a group of closely packed gens. With his power, being able to put pressure on basically every loop is much more important to me, and I'm able to predict and hit through walls fairly accurately
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You must be using a vpn or have terrible ping then (80+) at 25 ping it is impossible to hit survivors.
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See, I wouldn't even mind the cheesing so much, if the power was faster to use and not so easy to read. Mind games SHOULD be part of a killers bag of tricks, just not the only reliable part because their power is super situational.
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it’s nice to cage someone so the 3 survivors with flashlights are useless now, and if for whatever reason you wish you be a tunnelling douchebag you can avoid DS easily.
and then most survivor perks to do with hooking/unhooking are now void.
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I've gotten used to the way it controls and am not bothered by it, but to answer your question the reason I see for his clunky movement is that he's dragging his knife on the ground, it would look very weird if he could turn freely while doing that.
Plus it's bringing back good old tank controls!
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Wow! Well said couldn't agree more! I hope the developers read this and go about being fair to killer mains.
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They really hurt PH when they took away his ability to see cages smh is he still able to mori people after the third time of being hit with torment? Or did they nerf that too? He has a hard time moving and his attack is like deathslingers basic attack which is useless for the most part. But they insist on making him so weak that no one will use him anymore.smh all because of whiney crybaby survivors mains. I also play survivor and i know how easy it is to get away from any killer. Three doors and a key. Its rare that I don't escape with unbreakable and deliverance and ds and soul guard and borrowed time its hard to not escape unless I spawn by the killer in the beginning. Thats the only time where I might die as a survivor depending on if my teammates are selfish or incompetent
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I feel like if it were any easier to hit, it would be too easy. Maybe it is just me but i feel like there is no sweet spot. It is just on the edge, gamers are just gamers so they have adapted to evading it but if it were any easier how would you even avoid it?
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Just because you want him changed doesn't mean he requires changes. I 100% disagree with you. As many people in this thread have stated, their opinion is the proposed changes wont help him be more palatable to the Survivor community and will probably leave PH a low tier rubbish Killer. Most opinions in here also seem to think he isn't overpowered to begin with and are questioning why he is suddenly being overall nerfed.
I also dislike how you have a list of everything that needs changes and that will be changed as if you are the end all of DBD. I took a look and a lot of your recent comments on this forum and a vast majority of them is you talking down to someone about how you know more and they are wrong. People are allow to come in here and have individual opinions. We don't need your list of things that "100%" will be changed which justifies you telling us to basically 'shut up'. If we want to make a thread and have a discussion about the PH changes we will and we don't need you coming in and trying to browbeat us into not doing so.
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After he came out I played the carp out of him. The info you got from his power was great. Cage a survivor? Cool. I'll chase another guy so I know only one survivor is on gens. Mori at the end? Dope. I hate DSing at the end for a free escape. The toxic build revolves around hooking? Awesome. I basically don't have to spend the entire game getting tbagged and clicked at by a bunch of people who would rather play easy mode. Was he nurse tier? Hell no. Spirit? Nah. Bubba brain dead? Nope. But anti-meta is his niche. He was a shelter from the oppressive meta killers have had to live under for years. NOED, devour hope, moon walking bloodhound legion, tunneling. It was killers trying to compete with a system that made the game less fun and bred entitled survivors. PH was our chance to make them respect killers again.
As for a change to his ranged, I saw a few mentions of it but yeah, area denial. Keep the wave up to block a path (3 seconds, nothing crazy). Swap the damage for torment trigger (if you HAVE to).
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