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Survivor BP VS Killer BP
So, thanks to another discussion on here, i got to thinking about why Survivor BP is generally less than Killer BP.
And there's probably more to it than what i'm about to show you, but it contributes.
Survivors are the Killer's primary goal, as they have to die in order for the trial to end from the Killer's actions.
Sacrifice is literally the goal, you can also kill them by only doing bleed-outs, but that just actively hurts the BP gain for a much slower reason.
Hunting is barely avoidable, only some Killer Powers can avoid this, like Hunting Hatchets & Bear Traps, finding and chasing your primary goal will just happen.
Brutality is for dealing damage to the Survivors and to make chasing easier (Destroying barricades.), it's synonymous with going for your primary goal.
Deviousness is probably the most avoidable of the 4, but you gotta be a pure main-weapon Killer, and even then you could earn BP in here, like Bleeding BP, or No One Escaped BP.
For Survivor, Objectives is of course the main thing, and you'll more than likely make good BP in here.
Thing is, it could also not happen, for various reasons: You're forced into chases mostly, you're wanting to be chased, you're not forced into many chases but the others are quickly repairing everything, etc.
Survival, ahh, the joker: The 5k from surviving is really what makes or breaks this category, which makes sense since surviving is the primary goal. (You're free to make your own goals in the trial, but what gets you to the scoreboard from your own actions is escaping.)
Altruism: Optional.
Yeah, despite it being such a good thing for the 4 Survivors, you can actively not help eachother, and we are already seeing that in the small form of the "Adrenaline, so no healing" strategy.
Now i know, there's a time and a place to heal, but that still means you're not going to score in this category.
Boldness is actually not that hard to score low in, all that requires is 1 or 2 very good fellow Survivors, and you being a stealthy type.
Whether it's your style or not, again, this category can be scored in pretty low and still be successful in escaping.
There might be things incorrect or put in a wrong way, i'll let you point those out, and correct them if necessary.
But my point with all this?
Killers' scoring categories are intertwined moreso with their primary goal than Survivors' scoring categories are.
Now what i don't want to see is even more incentive to just go for Generators than anything else.
And...Well, frankly i don't have any idea on how to help this.
But isn't it logical that they earn less if they have to do that much less for their primary goal than the Killer?
Optional objectives exist, like Totems, Chests, certain Killer Powers (Lightburn a Wraith, disable Bear Traps, break free from Deathslinger, etc.)
But the first 2 are very limited, and you might not get the chance to get points from the Killer Power, or it might not even be such a Killer Power, like Shape's Evil Within, or Hillbilly's Chainsaw.
I'm not sure what else to say, not good at finishing discussions properly either.
Your opinion on this piece i wrote, and on the subject itself?
Comments
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the thing that give more points to survivors survivors don't want to do which is odd it part of the game but they do want to do gen(genrush) get out fast,qhat the fun in that?
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Survival is a bad category, always has been. the 0-5000 split has always been awful, and while more scoring events have helped with this a bit, it still remains very poorly designed in terms of its "all or nothing" dynamic. Survival bonus needs to be considerably lower (maybe 2k or so) and there need to be considerably more realistic events to bring it up to par with the others.
That said, We come to boldness. This category can either be very easy or very hard to get points in, and usually when its very easy, its the ONLY category you'll get points in (like being tunneled.) You could run the killer for the entire game and get only 13k, because you weren't allowed to do anything else the whole game but, still escaped. Or worse, only 8k if you didn't escape.
Altruism rewards over-altruistic behavior too much, which feels weird to even type out. People hookbomb and throw the game for their team for both WGLF stacks, and the fact that they get pretty much at least a quarter of a category's max in a single event. Altruism needs to reward less for unhooking, and more for healing.
The objective category is actually fine for the most part, barring you don't run into the problems of the other categories. If rebalancing the actual point gains is out of the question, then the category caps need to be adjusted, or gotten rid of entirely. I understand their purpose, but they can cause more harm than good for game health considering how bad the grind is.
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I always liked to described this BP split as:
- Killers are competing with the Survivor Team for BP
- Survivors compete with the Killer AND each other for BP
Three of killer's four BP categories are effectively infinite resources in any trial. Sacrifice is the only one limited by the amount of times a survivor can be hooked.
Only two survivor categories are unlimited in this way: Boldness and Altruism. Objective is limited by the amount of Gens/Gates/Chests that can be interacted with in a map, while Survival is almost entirely contingent on actually escaping (it is THE hardest BP category to max out in DbD).
Plus, whereas killer can effectively earn towards all four categories at the same time (especially since they all tie-in to their goal, as you said), survivors are basically stuck doing one thing or another at any given point (there are some exceptions, like doing interactions near the killer or in the basement, but the Boldness BP gained from those is pretty low). You can get Brutality and Deviousness points simultaneously, but you cannot do the same with Objective and Altruism.
They could probably improve survivor BP gain by upping the BP reward from all survivor actions by about 25-50%. Then I'd say that the Survival category should be replaced with something else (maybe like an "Interference" category) and instead be some sort of post-trial reward for successfully escaping.
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The worst part about survivor blood points is that your points are entirely dependent upon how the killer plays. Inversely though, you can still get a good amount of blood points as killer as long as you just let the survivors unhook and are constantly hitting/chasing.
Killer camps/tunnels? You're not going to get many blood points.
Killer chases you all game? You're looking at somewhere around 8-13k depending on if you escape.
You can't even max out survival without self care or a medkit and if you do heal yourself you're giving your team less opportunities to get altruism points, which is silly.
I agree with the above that survivor blood point gains should be increased and I also think that the categories should be more intertwined, like killer's categories are. Or even just make it so that if you're actively doing something you get shared blood points from categories your team are getting points in.
Ex: You're working on a gen while someone else is getting chased. You get boldness points while doing the gen as long as that person is in chase and they get objective points. Say someone unhooks during this time, everyone gets altruism as well.
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this. It would be great if we could at least earn BP as a team. for example how about 1200bp for each survivor that escapes? or 500bp for each completed gen while in the trial regardless of if you were on it? survivors are supposed play as a team but other than altruism scoring there is very little incentive BP wise for doing so. I would happily go on a 5 gen chase if a. I were that skillful and b. I knew I would still get BP from the completed gens.
to summarize, even without directly touching an objective you still contribute. did bones? spared your teammates from NOED. Got chased? Kept the killer occupied so team can focus on gens. BP/emblems should both reflect direct and indirect contributions
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This is a reason that I would really want a retooling of points
I agree with what @FrootLoops has said
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@Boss I appreciate this thread, I know I struggle to recall what actions reward each category. I kinda wish the Emblem system was simplified a bit. The 2 things that stand out for me:
First, if you're solo q and the rest of your teammates are SWF, it can be really frustrating. Ppl in the SWF will naturally coordinate healings, unhooks, etc., and you're kind of forced to run info perks just to make sure you don't become the sacrificial lamb.
Question for other solo q players: Do you also tend to get fewer bloodpoints when there's SWF in your match?
Second, I feel like each Killer has 2 categories they naturally excel at getting points in. I play a lot of stealth Killers and it's usually easy to max out in the hunting category, whereas I hardly ever max out on a survivor category. Maybe that's part of the BP discrepancy? I don't know, but I'm also very curious to hear what other players have to say on this topic!
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Kinda funny: I personally struggle with Hunting when playing Wraith.
Brutality is easier, but not max.
Then in Sacrifice, i usually get around 6-7k.
And Deviousness i find to be ezpz, rarely get below 8k.
If you want to know the categories and in which categories Score Events are sorted, this should be able to tell you: https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Score_Events
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I've noticed as killer you could have everyone escape not hook anyone, get an entity displeased and still get 20-25k or more BP as killer. You could max in 1 or 2 categories as survivor and max you get is 16-20k. I've had matches where I've memed around and just had the killer chase me around the killer shack all game and I got more bp then I got from actually playing the game normally. I just find it ridiculous that killers don't have to do hardly anything to get 20k or more BP but as survivor you're punished if you solely do gens or help survivors but get rewarded for basically just doing nothing
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I think people focusing on "killers get more points" are looking at things the wrong way. Not only do they need the points a LOT more, but they have to generally work harder for them, even if they don't finish their objectives. The issue isnt that killers get too many points, its that survivors get too little.
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Well yeah, this isn't to call for less BP.
I much prefer how almost all BP is interwoven with the Killer's primary objective.
And an increase in BP gain for Survivors is something very hard to refuse.
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