http://dbd.game/killswitch
New Thana Numbers (Dying Light combination included)
So, I did the Math on New Thana and how much slowdown it would give on generators. If the numbers seem weird/not what you expected, please see the PSA by @Orion on how to properly calculate action speed in the game. (Note: The numbers given are rounded to the nearest 1)
Default - 80 secs
5% - 84
10% - 89
15% - 94
20% - 100
For comparison, this is Old/Current Thana
4% - 83
8% - 87
12% - 90
16% - 95
Next, I wanted to see how New Thana and Dying Light would interact. Assuming you're at max Thana stacks, this is what Dying Light would add.
1 Stack - 103
2 stacks - 106
3 stacks - 109
4 stacks - 114
5 stacks - 118
6 stacks - 122
Anything after 6 stacks, the game is pretty much over, so it's mostly irrelevant. I would like to remind everyone that these numbers hit very hard when combined with other slowdown perks like Pop or Surge.
Since I did it for New Thana, here's Old Thana + Dying Light
1 Stack - 98
2 stacks - 101
3 stacks - 105
4 stacks - 108
5 stacks - 112
6 stacks - 116
Please, do feel free to verify the math for yourselves. Last thing I would want is to give out false information.
Comments
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When BHVR revealed that survivors would no longer suffer from reduced healing speeds against Thana, but would instead suffer from greater affects to action speeds, needless to say I think we all assumed those numbers would be greater than 1%.
Literally adding just a few more seconds to a generator? Why even bother?
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I expected at least a 2-3% increase minimum per level. I always thought Thana was a pretty trash perk that had usage in niche builds. I won't even consider using it now.
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Since now it doesnt make it harder to heal its benefits just get removed with a few seconds of healing. Thana discouraged healing so now its easier to remove those penalties
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Considering that I've been able to circle a gen that was almost complete and finish it with the killer next to me, a few seconds can mean a lot.
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That's what I was expecting as well. Thana is supposed to encourage survivors to heal so as not to suffer reduced action speeds, but a 1% buff is not nearly enough.
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In certain situations I can see that, but if you have a good swf team or the survivors continue to play smart, a few extra seconds doesn't mean a thing.
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This is rather assumptious of me, but I believe a key reason for a 1% buff rather than a 2% or 3% is because Legion (the best user of the perk by far) would pretty much have the best and most reliable slowdown in the game since he can reliably keep people injured and undo heals almost immediately.
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See. This is where the problems lies, when they said they are getting rid of thanas healing and in trade for more slow down, like someone already said, we expected more than 1% but no greater than 3%
And then the other problem is that now, thana can't stand on its own, using thana without any other slowdown perks now its just a wasted slot.
BHVR even said it themselves that they don't want to make slowdown perks too strong, to the point where having two slowdown perks, would being back forever freddy or another situation.
It makes sense if you combine two perks to make them work together, like thana/sloppy, ruin/undying etc to make them stronger when actively being used correctly, but when it comes to having to combine x perk with another or more, because said x perk is so weak that bringing it alone will just be a wasted, is not okay.
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2-3%? Serious? That would be 32% at max stacks. Remember forever Freddy? He was at 16 (Thana) + 12 (chains) + 9 (rope) when all survivors sleeping and injured, that is 37%
N.B. max! most of the time it was below that because you cannot keep all injured and sleepy. And currently Forever Freddy is still valuable and annoying to go against, with 'only' 28% max, getting buffed back to 32%, while the sleepy addons STILL reduce healing speed.
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I dont know man, 42 extra seconds seems really tedious to me.
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Actually, that's not quite how debuffs are calculated.
Notice New Thana (20%) and Dying Light at 6 stacks (18%) is 122? 20+18=38, seemingly meaning 38% slowdown which would be 129, yet, that's not how it works. Debuffs are multiplicative, not additive.
I'm not saying that would be pleasant to play against, just that the math is not that simple.
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It's not 1%, it's 1% per injured survivor. So 1-4% depending on how many survivors are injured. So without any other perks that's 4-20 extra seconds per solo survivor gen speed.
Obviously Ruin is more powerful, the downside there is that as a Hex it can be removed. Ruin + Undying mitigates that issue but that is two perks so I would hope it would be better than one perk on its own!
Pop Goes the Weasel is 20 second slow down per trigger and can't be removed. On the other hand you're not guaranteed to get to Pop a gen after every hook necessarily, occasionally you'll miss a chance, and if you're not getting downs it's not going to help you catch up much
Thana is the weakest of the three in terms of gen slow down but it's also passive, it require no additional action on your part as a killer other than your normal attempts to hit survivors. That does make it a bit more time efficient than it might seem at first glance. And of course it can't be removed since it's not a Hex
Dying Light is probably the weakest of the main gen slow down perks, mainly because it takes a while to ramp up and in order for you to get it to a good slowdown you have to be getting a lot of hooks anyway so it's a bit of a "win more" perk. (If you already have four or five non-Obsession hooks by midgame you're probably doing well even without this perk.) The fact that it also doesn't even apply its penalty to the Obsession is just insult to injury, it's not great, at least not on its own.
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I believe Otzdarva put it best when he said that Thana works best when it makes other perks better. It makes that little bit lost from Surge or Pop hit that tiny bit harder.
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Ok that means old Forever Freddy had less debuff of what I wrote? That makes an 8% single source slowdown perk even worse
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Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. Thanatophobia is a good supplemental perk, not necessarily great on its own though.
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Maybe. But the main shortcoming of Legion is their inability to down with their power. Survivors dont heal and just gen rush. And a lot of Legions just stack it with Sloppy to discourage it further.
Legions lack of downing potential means that they can be pallet and window looped to an absurd degree so any time the survivors would have lost to this perk is massively gained by how non lethal feral frenzy is.
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While these numbers are accurate of how long the gens take with the debuffs, they don't accurately reflect the net debuff.
Dying Light's extra seconds can be cut down by 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2 based on remaining survivors since one is never effected. Thana is almost never at max stacks, and combined will be even less because of Dying Light's massive heal buff for the obsession.
The only killer that got a tiny buff from this is Plague and maybe Legion.
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If I have to play Legion for a daily I get survivors just giving up on hook, hell yesterday they hunted me down so I could hook them out of the game after a few minutes of mending/mangled add ons and ruin/undying.
It's only going to get worse.
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