Easy fix to make the Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer combo less broken
Remove the aura reading for totems. It is unnecessary and just makes the perk a strictly better ToTH. As a benefit, this change would force killers to use ToTH if they want the same effect, thus forcing them to use ALL of their perk slots to make it work, 3 of which are easily broken hexes.
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Or you know give up 1 perk slot for small game and problem solved.
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i think they should switch thrill's effect of making totems take longer to break with undying's aura reading. it would match both perks better anyway since thrill of the hunt would be for info and undying would be for keeping totems alive plus it would allow you to know if theres a remaining totem for a hex to transfer to.
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I've advocated for this idea in another thread because each dull or hex totem that breaks reduces the cleanse speed debuff by another token - meaning an attentive survivor could tell about how many totems are left from each one cleansed since Undying requires more totems to be destroyed in theory that ToTH. Also the noise explosion when cleansing "Begins" is far more fair to deal with considering it also has a maximum range on larger maps so a Blight or Hillbilly with the "move fast" addons wouldn't have a chance to stop the cleanse if they are too far away (nor even be notified that a survivor is nearby).
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the thing i noticed with TOTH is that if a survivor keeps tapping it and then moving away if a killer goes to it it can waste a lot of the killers time. if the effects did switch than TOTH won't give notifications on dull totems but will tell you if a survivor is near any totem and can make the strat of tapping totems less effective which will make defending totems easier. currently undying basically does what TOTH does but better as you said. undying will be for wasting the survivors time by both cleansing totems and trying to find undying itself, im in the group that agrees undying needs a nerf to its aura reading but i also think they should compensate for it and this would be the best compensation imo.
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Firstly, that perk combo ain't broken.
Secondly, every perk should do something by itself. Undying wouldn't do anything by itself if they removed the aura reading. You shouldn't have to combo a perk with another for it to be worth running.
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Or bring a map, detective hunch or small game and pouff no more totem and if you are scare to get spot by the aura reading part you have distortion for that. I know its hard to put OoO, DH, BT, DS, UB, SB, IW and adrenaline on the side but you have the option to combat aura reading and worst case you dont get spot by bbq
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Thanks for reminding me that Open-Handed is the worst perk because it does nothing by itself.
Also that Open-Handed exists.
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Having to give up a perk slot for something that the killer might not even use, because matches don't have a pre-determined outcome isn't a real counter.
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This isn't that broken of a combo really. It only works, and i mean ONLY works if survivors completely ignore the 5 totems around the map. Considering the meta has been changed slightly with the addition of undying, very rarely can I attribute a loss to undying, ruin and tinkerers. It is good, I will say that but it isn't broken. Especially since it's easy to counter just by doing the bones and hoping you get undying first. If the game starts and two survivors find two active totems immediately (which happens really often), you already know one of them will be undying. You can't exactly down both survivors and stop both totems from breaking totems now can you?
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This. People are making it sound like it an every match thing where they get the worst outcome. The combo is a gamble just like any other hex. Undying goes first, then ruin. Boom down to 2 perks. Then there's all the in-between like ruin, undying, ruin. Oh no I had to cleanse 3 totems with my team of 4 survivors.
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Distortion.
Off the Record.
Small Game.
Detectives Hunch.
Maps + Addons.
All those DIRECT counters...but still "broken" because god forbid you give up a perk slot for one of those.
Killers have a super powerful perk combo now. Sucks, doesn't it? Good. Now you know how we've been feeling with DS/Unbreakable for YEARS now...and more recently, DS/Unbreakable/Soul Guard. Except - our "super powerful perk combo" STILL isn't nearly as powerful as yours. Ours has a counter. Yours doesn't.
"Git gud. Don't get caught. Don't tunnel generators" 4head.
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The point of making totems take longer to cleanse is so that you have time to get over to them and defend them when you hear the notification. Thrill needs that.
Besides if you had Ruin constantly respawn and it took longer to cleanse survivors would be very unhappy.
Thats the problem with the original suggestion here. Removing the aura reading wont do anything long term but nerf Undying into a luck totem, since at that point you would purely have to rely on luck and wouldnt be able to defend your totems without the knowledge of when they’re being cleansed.
Survivors just dont want to deal with taking out totems, or taking out Ruin multiple times. Thats the big issue. No matter what you do with aura readings its always gonna come back to that eventually.
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Tbh i would rather they let the combo stay for atleast 3 months.
Give the survivor community the change to adept their playstyle.
They should the second they see ruin in play focus on totems. And when people start to learn where the totem spots are they could be cleansed insanely fast
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Plus - the killer can only pressure ONE GEN at a time. Everybody seems to forget that.
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Your "fix" does not change the core issue of the combo at all. The main reason for frustration is Tinkerer allowing the killer to chasing the survivors away from nearly finished gens, giving ruin much value. Unduying is just there to make ruin more reliable. Sure the survivors can all search for totems before touching a gen, then the aura would be the issue. But I doubt that this happens frequently.
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"Thank you for your concern.
Please consider removing one of your preferred crutches and meta-approved perks in favor of running an anti-totem perk such as Small Game or Detective's Hunch; also, we recommend adapting your playstyle to more cautiously pay attention to your surroundings, work with your team, or learn to approach a totem, back, and then swing back around either during the aura-reading's internalized cooldown between aura detection or while the killer is preoccupied with another team mate.
We appreciate your feedback."
Sincerely,
Stop trying to get Undying nerfed or having the game be more balanced around solo-play at the detriment of the game's health and balance due to not wanting to rely on your teammates or work with them.
ToTH is for totem-touched sound-and-location notifcations and slowing down cleansing speeds. Undying is for aura-reading when looking in that totem's direction or when a Survivor is paying zero attention to their surroundings and running right by bones because they're 'not important to do' because they need to use that time to rush a generator or go find the killer to troll them for a minute.
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If most games they are running them, it's worth. If that many games happen where they aren't, then why are we even having this discussion since it's not an issue?
Between Undying/Ruin/NOED it is going to be worth it most of the time, so yes, it is a real counter.
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On top of that, I noticed that killers getting value out of this combo tend to tunnel less, especially I can't remember I found a hook camping killer with this build so far.
Probably another reason why survivor mains complain about this build, because killers don't run into their perk traps anymore *just-kappa*
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You pick DS and Unbreakable with the exact same argumentation, don't you?
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That's not whataboutism. Your argument is just flawed
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It is whataboutism, this thread is about undying, ruin and tinkerer, and you're bringing up DS and unbreakable, even though these perks have nothing in common
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My point was your argumentation of "Having to give up a perk slot for something that the killer might not even use"
I also hear this as argument why noone wants to run Iron Will to counter spirit. The argument is simply wrong because EVERYONE picks DS because they expect a tunneling killer. Same thing, just in a different situation. So I brought this up just to say I think your argument has completely no point
On OP: I join with the opinion already stated: This is a strong build but requires 3 perk slots, so it HAS to be strong. Still manageable to work against it. If you have a problem with that, bring what the game gives you to counter it.
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other then being a good combo that the point.
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I would rather see the removal of the aura reading on dull totems but keeping it for hex totems.
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D-did you just mention Distortion? Where 2 tokens can be eaten by one totem?
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