any tactics for countering well coordinated survivor teams?
i'm at rank 15 and around half of my killer games end-up as either me getting rolled buy a coordinated survivor team witch ends in me having a really boring match. without perks like hex ruin and pop-goes the weasel or even all of the killers i find there is really not much i can do except get rolled. i'm asking for any non toxic tactics in helping combat these well put together teams please and thank you.
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High Profile Tournaments showed there is next to nothing you can do.
The Advantage communication gives in a game based around not having all information is just too big.
It can happen that you outskill an swf, but if they are at equal skill level to you, they just beat you, teabagg ingame and insult you in the after game chat. Thats at least the most likley outcome.
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My first suggestion is to purge the word "toxic" from your vocabulary. Ignore people who use it, avoid using it yourself, and play the game using all available tools as indicated by the direction of a particular match. Chances are those really well-coordinated SWF are using the 5th Perk (Comms) which provides more information to every member of the group than all the in-game Perks combined. Weigh that carefully when find yourself holding back because someone convinced you something is the so-called toxic.
For my own part I will camp, tunnel, slug, and us the Mori whenever they are appropriate in a given match. Every match is different so these special use tools are highly conditional. If you want to tie your own hands behind your back and refuse to use Perks which will slow down the Gen-Rush, then you YOURSELF are responsible for your losses. You will not defeat a well-coordinated SWF by avoiding things which slow them down, upset them, or play into their hands. They are counting on you trying for three hooks, avoiding going after the same person in a row, not using a Mori, and acting like Santa Killer. So, if you like losing, keep coddling your Survivors.
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Here's a couple non-toxic tips if you're going against what seems to be a coordinated SWF. It's all about anticipation:
- Don't chase for longer than like two pallets. Abandon chase and get after a gen. If you're in a chase and you hear a gen being worked on as your going by, get after the gen cause you can usually get a quick hit. Most survivors won't leave a gen if they see you in chase. Survivors are creatures of habit, they'll keep going back to the same gen. If you hit someone from a gen that had multiple people on it, get a pallet break and quickly go back to that gen for another hit cause that other survivor will be right on it.
- Assume dead hard and bait it out. If someone is being greedy at a loop, they have dead hard. Always assume they have borrowed time and decisive strike. If you see someone going for an unsafe save, hit the unhooker and chase them. Anticipate the BT bodyblock and get around them. If you leave a survivor hooked and check a couple gens and you see they're about to hit another hook state, go back and force struggle/death. Punish survivors for using all of a person's hook state to gen rush.
- If there are a lot of people injured and you're at 4 or 5 gens still needing to be done, just eat someone's DS because it's a free escape in end game. Feel free to tunnel them out later after you eat it. If you can quickly get in a chase with someone else, slug. Slug if you're at 2 or less gens
- Work on manipulating your light a bit at basic loops. You just need to get them to freeze long enough to where they have to drop the pallet right away
Couple more I thought of:
Work on your focus to remember what everyone's exhaustion perks are and try to keep a little count in your head of a DS timer if you've got someone slugged waiting it out
Also, if a survivor is working on something in your face and hops in a locker to force you to eat DS just pull them out and eat it. Leaving them alone at this point is a complete waste, might as well get rid of it. Or, if you're trapper, put a trap in front of the locker
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Play survivor, if you don't want to be judged.
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what i consider toxic and what you consider toxic are clearly diffrent i dont consider tunneling sluging and moris as toxic the only thing i consider somewhat toxic is camping but only when it is used too mutch
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That is fair. The only thing I consider toxic is Salt before or after a game. I give my opponents kind words whether they curb-stomp me or I not. I think valid, legal tools and tactics within the game are fair game and I never give anyone grief or try to shame them for using them.
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If you're queueing at rank 15, the chance that you are going against a coordinated survivor team every other game is really really low. Chances are, you're just not able to put enough pressure on survivors.
Always focus on macro play - For example, it might seem quite obvious but after you hook someone, you can deduce that 1 person is on the hook, 1 person is likely going for the save, and 2 people are on gens. With that information, you should decide whether to contest the unhook or contest the generator. (Do you know what generators are being worked on? Are they too far to contest? Do you see scratch marks around the hook?) After a while your macro play should improve a lot and will help you a lot in pressuring survivors.
Also try not to overcommit to chases and focus on the weak link.
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They can be tough, but that in itself doesn’t make them toxic.
The only saving grace is that these sorts of teams are usually very predictable.
- there’s ALWAYS someone nearby with a flashlight after you’ve downed someone, and they won’t have been discreet about it either due to obvious scratchmarks or disturbed crows.
- there’s always someone ready to jump back onto a gen you’ve just chased someone off of. Doubling back sometimes catches whoever that is off guard for an easy hit.
- There’s always someone waiting by the hook to do a save before you get further than the distance of your TR.
- They’re likely to regularly body block. This CAN be used against them by tunnelling a random in attempt to draw out who you REALLY want to be pressuring.
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TheClownIsKing
That's a pretty interesting tactic, pretend to tunnel right off the hook to entice someone to come in for the body block to get a quick new target. I'll have to try that out in my games today
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Congrats on your first post and welcome!
Going against a coordinated team can be a real challenge, especially if they are on comms which is likely. Slow down/gen protection perks like Ruin, Corrupt Intervention, Pop, and a few others can help give you time to smack some survivors. But not everyone has all killers with all perks unlocked.
I find it usually comes down to your skill, your set-up, short chases, and often the map itself. To help you more we'd need to know who you play and your load-outs tried so far.
A general tip I can offer is teams will play very auteristic and save each other constantly, which can be taken advantage of especially in late game. If the gens are done and there's a surv on a hook you can pretty much guarantee they will go to save, often in a swarm. Use their tactics against them. Depending on your killer and where the gates are, a well-timed grab and slugging can secure that one kill and maybe get you another.
Another tip is play both roles, even just a little. Watch your team mates, learn their pathing and tendencies, and get a feel for tiles and safe/unsafe zones. Believe me you will be a better killer because of this.
Good luck in the fog!
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thing is i get paired with people that are sometimes 5 ranks above me more than you would think
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If there's one person who is walking out in the opening. Constantly teabagging and clicking a flashlight it's best not to go after them. That person is probably the god looper of the swf or they haven't been hooked yet. They can afford to get downed while everyone else works on gens. If the survivors is deliberately trying to get your attention take a moment to determine if it's worth chasing him or not.
Post edited by EvilJoshy on2 -
This is a good point. Also if they are running Object of Obsession they do want your attention and may be that expert looper you cannot afford to loop. Time management is king!
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i know that if they are trying to get my attention then they are confident in their ability to waste my time
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What I'd suggest is don't look at killers that you think will be amazing to play atm. Look past the killer at their perks.
Killers like Clown and Plague aren't considered A tier killers but have A+ tier perks.
What I'd say is level these 2 killers first (Probably Clown before Plague). Next is buy Monitor and Abuse from the Shrine (or level up Doctor). Lastly look at what killer you like and level them up. This way your killer will have access to Corrupt Intervention, Pop Goes The Weasil, Infectious Fright, Bamboozle and Monitor and Abuse. All of these perks will help you immensely as killer.
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i looking for tactics i know what perks are considered good but it i cant get these perks anytime soon. and without the ability to get lots of blood points because half my matches are rolls
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i do thank all of you for all of your advice and for giving me your time and attention. thank you
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This happened to me at rank 15, too -- I suddenly got fed to SWF groups who were 5+ ranks higher than me. I really wish I could tell you that there's something you can do to defend against that, but I think the truth is that the gap created by the matchmaking is too big to overcome when you're at an intermediate level.
The coping strategy that worked for me -- to deal with getting destroyed over and over again, not to avoid getting destroyed, which I'm not sure you can -- was changing my attitude from "I want to try to win" to "at least make them work for it." Which involved gravitating toward killers who have annoying abilities, like Doctor, or abilities that create an extra task for the survivors to do, like Pig. And also just being contrary and not doing what they wanted me to do, like chase that one Nea with Object.
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Actually the dev stats last year indicated that on average 55% of games include a 2-, 3- or 4- person swf. It's a safe bet all those swfs are on comms as well. Now how good those swf players are and how coordinated they actually are can vary quite a bit, I've definitely gone against some pretty terrible swf players (e.g. they just immediately run in for rescues or badly timed flashlight saves because their friend is yelling for help in their headset). But at least in terms of how often players are in swfs in general, groups that include at least some swf members are more common than all solo groups.
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Pay attention in the pre game lobby is my best tip. It helps to prepare properly. If they are coördinated they usually have the same cosmetic or character, bring the same item, have similar names. If they come prepared you should too.
4 flashlights? It's lightborn time.😎 It took a coördinated squad the entire game before they figured out I had this giving me 2 kills and 2 dc... I love all the flashlight save attempts since I get 10sec aura reveal resulting in a down. Combine with mad grit and they get a nasty surprise when flooding the hook. I'm careful not to show I have mad grit until a good opportunity comes up.
They are all the same desperate for flashlight saves/ flooding hooks/ body blocking/ taking meta perks and assuming you took 4 meta perks as well. It is easy to predict what they will do, it's just not easy facing them because as a killer you're alone and they are with 4.
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In addition to other advice above, I'll say that the one weakness of swfs, at least ones that aren't great players on their own, is they can tend to be overly altruistic. They really, REALLY don't want one of their swf friends to get killed. So if you're against a swf you can keep in the back of your mind to expect them to possibly try all sorts of risky rescues, flashlight saves, headons, pallet saves and so on. Basically if you down one of them and you're extra prepared for that you can get a lot of free hits.
Of course the best swf players don't do that, but if you're rank 15 you're probably not going against the best players.
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thing is i dont have such perks and am in in the process of unlocking them
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Right. That's why I said it's really rare to go against a coordinated SWF at Rank 15. SWFs are common, but coordination isn't at that rank. People still lack basic understanding of the game to understand what they should be doing. There may be one decent player, but that doesn't mean the game isn't manageable.
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There's no better perk for killer bloodpoints than BBQ & Chile, from the Cannibal. Look for it in the shrine to work around the $$ aspect.
Unfortunately most of the very good perks are pay perks...
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this is the kind of stuff i have to deal with
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I'll just leave this here.
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Which killers/perks do you have available? I have some really effective builds but they won't secure more than a 1 or 2 kill which is fine because most SWF that are that coordinated consider a single kill a loss and will try to get all 4 out above all else.
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not including the base killers i have: the shape, the hag, the doctor, the cannibal, the nightmare, the pig, the spirit, the legion, ghostface and the executioner. for teachable killer perks: remember me
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One to get as a teachable asap would be Mad Grit. This is on EVERY anti bully SWF build I have. All the body blockers and attempted hook sabotage become slugged very quickly.
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i got them and they got salty thx for the tips guys
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Calling swf comms "the 5th perk" has a nice ring to it.
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Good Advise I will give you my friend when playing vs SWF and you hook someone they rescue that guy almost just before it goes second phase
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Please don’t use the last tournament of survivor mains with a couple of decent killers to mean anything. “I’m going against Seal Team 6, better bring NOED,” said no killer main ever. Every killer I saw played to lose, outside of a couple
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And why do you think that is?
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