Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Let's talk about the tome
A few weeks back I made a post regarding nerfed rift progress. To recap: The latest Tome (IV) was secretly adjusted to award fewer fragments, adding approximately 70 extra matches worth of playtime in order to fully complete the rift. This change was not communicated. You can read the original thread here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/185325/rift-progress-nerfed-again/.
Even though we have pinged community managers in the original thread, and asked directly about the change in the latest Q&A, BHVR has not acknowledged the situation. I can't help but feel that this is part of a predatory business model. Here's what it looks like to me:
Step 1. Announce positive changes to the Tome.
Step 2. Have players invest in the new 'generous' Tome
Step 3. Assert the players attitude towards the Tome by further increasing progress awarded in the following Tome.
Step 4. Secretly remove progress awarded to stimulate the need for microtransactions in order to achieve the same amount of progress as previous Tomes.
Does this really sit right with you guys?
Comments
-
Nope. This is what I’m expecting for all future Tomes unfortunately. Watch Tomes V and VI have the most fragments out of all of them only for Tome VIII to have the least.
0 -
It has no effect in on me one way or the other. Are these devs very very shady? Absolutely. But spending money on/in a video game is a personal choice that is not forced upon anyone. Simple as that
4 -
My only advice: Be an intelligent consumer.
6 -
Whenever I see one of these posts accusing the DEV of a predatory business model I roll my eyes and wonder exactly what is your basis of comparison. DbD is a cheap game to get into. The DLC are inexpensive too, and not mandatory to remain competitive. You don't pay a subscription fee. The only thing left for you to pay for is the cosmetics which are entirely optional, and have no game effect. You don't have to buy them. I'm just not seeing the predatory aspect.
The cherry on top of this is they GIVE YOU FREE COSMETICS just for playing the game. Free stuff does not equal predatory. It is the opposite. You think they are predatory for not giving you MORE free stuff or ENOUGH free stuff (very subjective). What a entitled bunch of snots some of you seem to be. A predatory business model would require the following:
- Pay to play, such as a subscription fee or other hidden fees.
- Pay to remain competitive, i.e. if you don't buy the newest DLC you can't win against those that do.
- Pay for Competitive Edge, i.e. you can purchase Cosmetics or other items unavailable to those who don't pay which provide an edge.
These are the big three, NONE OF WHICH, are employed by DbD. Grow up.
7 -
You have the option to just play the game, and earn the rift tokens without even paying for it, you can then decide, with one day left whether you want the premium track stuff or not.
0 -
@SnakeSound222 It's actually going to be interesting to see if this is the case.
@OBX Yes, whether or not you buy the rift is a personal, unforced choice. But being manipulated is not.
1 -
How is it manipulation? All the tomes have had varying amounts of fragments in them, you can, also, wait to see how many fragments are going to be there when each page unlocks.
0 -
@Moundshroud @Moundshroud @Moundshroud I actually want to ask you the same thing. You disregard my post, apparently rolling you eyes to the back of your head in the process, due to a set of rules that you have presented without any kind of source. As if consumers cannot be manipulated unless there's a competitive edge or subscription involved. Regardless, my point has nothing to do with the actual rift, but rather the marketing/mechanics behind it.
What I call predatory is not the rift, but rather the action of removing progress in secret.
0 -
Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to buy Cosmetics, DLC, or whatever. They are not required to be competitive in the game. You are not playing a subscription fee past the initial buy in, even though the company does pay upkeep for you to continue to play. Yes, I roll my eyes at your comments because they are vapid, incorrect, and self-serving.
All the Rift has done for me is given me free cosmetics. Why? I don't buy into the paid ones. It was as simple as that. Free choice and options isn't manipulation. If you REQUIRED any of that stuff to play the game effectively, that would qualify as manipulation. Why don't you DEFINE for us what you mean by manipulation. Please provide the specific engine by which you think we are being manipulated here? Specifics please, no glittering generalities. If you aren't talking about the Rift, please DEFINE what it is you are talking about specifically so we can have an actual discussion about it. Stop playing rhetorical games.
4 -
@SenzuDuck Yes, yes, you have the option to play the game and all that. But I'm not talking about whether the rift is optional or not, but the fact that the premise of the rift has changed without it being communicated.
The manipulation lays in the fact that they publicly communicated that the tome + rift was too grindy and that they were going to adjust the values. Two tomes later they revert the added progress without saying anything. Based on previous experiences, players may buy the rift believing that they can complete the rift when in reality, they cannot. The problem is that there has been no communication about the change and that players can't see the tome challenges beforehand.
Tome I: 340 fragments
Tome II: 393 fragments <-- Look everyone we added a bunch of rift fragments to the tome!
Tome III: 405 fragments
Tome IV: 348 fragments <-- Shhh, don't tell anyone we removed the rift fragments
2 -
Thank you for being more specific. My only real response to this is that free fragments are still free whether they require more or less of you to get them. It is kind of like looking a gift horse in the mouth. I understand that moving the goal posts can be frustrating, and for that you can be forgiven. But at the end of the day, they are still giving us something for nothing more than playing the game (which we would be doing anyway). I had a local restaurant that used to give me points which each meal I purchased toward getting a free meal. After awhile, they adjusted how many points I needed for that free meal. I understood that they had done a cost analysis and had to do it. They were STILL giving me a free meal at the end of the line. Do you see my point?
1 -
This is where my problem with the devs come in. I dislike how dishonest they are sometimes.
They'll always replay to discussions about things they can explain easily. Weirdly though if the discussion is about something they want to avoid like this they just ignore it.
It's stuff like this why the devs aren't given the best treatment by the player base.
1 -
Listen, I'm trying to have a discussion with you but I feel you have a condescending tone which doesn't feel constructive or nice. Can we just focus on the topic at hand instead?
We are in agreement that the rift is optional and that it doesn't give you a competitive edge. I will explain my POV, but just to be clear, from here on out I am speculating. I'm using the Oxford Cambridge dictionary to define the term manipulation. It goes as follows: the action of influencing or controlling someone or something to your advantage, often without anyone knowing it.
I feel that BHVR are trying to influence people into buying rift progress by removing rift progress from the tome. This is strictly going from mechanics of loss aversion and the social/emotional value skins employ. If you buy the rift you will want to complete it. If you have 3-4 levels left, you may pay 300-400 auric cells to avoid the 'loss' of the last few items. If you believe you will complete the rift in time, you may be more inclined to buy it beforehand. By adding and removing rift progress you can influence the players into (a) buying the rift beforehand, and (b) paying to complete the rift.
As I said in a previous response, why do you announce one change but not the other? Here's how I interpret it. Again, just me speculating:
Tome I: 340 fragments
Tome II: 393 fragments <-- Announcement: Look everyone we added a bunch of rift fragments to the tome!
Tome III: 405 fragments
Tome IV: 348 fragments <-- No announcement: Shhh, don't tell anyone we removed the rift fragments
3 -
I wish they hadn't done this, but it doesn't seem like there's anything we can do about it.
0 -
But you have already invalidated your OWN point. Clearly you (and everyone else) knows how the Rift works, fragments and all. The change in required fragments isn't a big secret. We wouldn't be having this conversation if it was done behind closed doors. The Rift is completely transparent. When changes happen, you see them. It is not my intent to be condescending, only to debate you on the merits of your argument. It isn't my fault that you have yet to provide any evidence to support your supposition.
1 -
Yeah, I get your point. I'm personally fond of the rift. I like the skins and the added layer of the game. If they had made an announcement saying they needed to re-adjust the values I would have been totally fine with that. They need to make money, nothing weird about that. It's the not telling bit that grinds my gears.
1 -
But the tome is not transparent. You get the tome (with information about the amount of rift fragments) in pieces as the rift season progresses.
1 -
I was under the impression this was the case, I'm glad I know why now. It's a shame, the Rift system really made me wanna play DBD more frequently, but with this tome it's become such a chore I might not bother with the next one, should it be the same (or worse).
1 -
@CashelP14 Yes, I agree with you. The communication is inconsistent.
0 -
Honestly even is someone who completes the rifts every time it's still pretty annoying that they made it even harder for this one.
Now I'm aware they can't have it too unbelievably easy because then there's no reason for people to buy tiers and a business is a business. Also Dead by daylight already has a serious grind to it, which is why I've always held the notion that the idea of completing all the challenges getting you to 70 is a bit ridiculous it was never going to happen and I'm surprised people thought it was going to happen this way.
However I'm really disappointed because it did really feel like comparing the 1st 2nd and 3rd tome they were really making strides to reduce the Grind it wasn't perfect but it was a good middle ground.
While rewards for tome 3 weren't the best it just felt better in terms of grinding as long as they kept at that level it would have been fine. But I think it's going to progressively get worse hopefully I'm wrong
1 -
Yeah, I thought I was going crazy at first, but it is actually less progress now.
0 -
This is also fair enough. They could have made a bigger deal about it, but in the end I suspect they have bigger fish to fry. On any given day the DEV get virtually burned in effigy by people angry about some Perk, some change to a Power, some map, not optimizing something quick enough, and so on. I feel bad for them. They could announce tomorrow that they are giving us ANOTHER million BP via some code and somebody would complain that it isn't quite enough to Level-40 their Killer/Survivor of choice. I reread my posts and I do sound a bit short with you, but you have to understand how you sound with this entire line of commentary. You sound ungrateful, and angry because they aren't giving you enough free stuff. No matter how I try to wrap my head around this, I can't really find solid ground for you to stand on.
0 -
@Moundshroud and by 'rift season' I mean Tome levels.
0 -
Understood. They are all one and the same to me. Heck, the challenges get progressively harder too. I get stuck on some of the hardest of them forever. :)
0 -
I'd rather pay a flat fee and always have access to aquiring everything than this timed BS.
It takes 2 months of grinding to finish. The Rift is supposed to maintain player count/interest right? That's the real reason it exists?
2 -
@Moundshroud Well, I guess it's good I find my own foothold then :-) jokes aside, we can agree to disagree and all that.
In terms of players flaming the devs: I cannot agree more. It is cringe-inducing and over-the-top at all times. I am usually not one of those persons, in fact, it's often the other way around. But something about this just hits me from the wrong angle. I get that it may sound ungrateful, but it's more of a principle for me. Anyways have a great day and thanks for the head butting.
1 -
Well here they do have an ulterior motive. The game is only has healthy as the number of matches played. In other words, they have to keep people playing to make sure the Ques aren't slow and they can continue to build the community. I'm sure they would love to just give a flat fee and make the money up front, but that doesn't help the game long term. By having it tied to people playing matches, they create a secondary reason for people to play besides just the fun of the game. They want you to have an additional goal outside the match that ensures you play a lot. Many other online games, which charge a flat fee, have stagnated and died because the player base didn't play enough to drive matches and keep new people coming in.
0 -
Absolutely. Agreeing to disagree is what adults do in a situation like this. And for my part, I do apologize for the harsh tone. I do think, in retrospect, I could have made the same points in a little less snarky way. I'm glad we do agree on the DEV getting unfairly roasted a lot of the time, common ground there at least.
1 -
Instead of completing the rift Week Seven of the last Tome, I completed it Week Eight of the current Tome. Sounds like the rift is not for OP.
And don’t buy levels with Auric Cells. That’s for Fog Whisperers to put on fashion shows at the beginning of the Tome.
0 -
Secretly adjusted? Not a single tome granted the same amount of rifts as any other tome. Did you write a post on tome 3 that they secretly raised fragment rewards??
How about an easy fix to get out of the addiction: dont buy the premium path until last day of the rift, and then decide if you get back enough auric cells and if you get enough cool cosmetics, to see if it is worth it or not?
3 -
lmao the bit about the fashion show <3
I'm definitely not as avid in playing the game as you are! If I don't complete the tome, I probably won't buy it. I'm happy as a fiddle either way! But just to be clear: the post is primarily about the unannounced changes to the tome, not the rift itself.
0 -
Agreed. And I think a one time fee to have access to all Rifts would be the most fair. That way vet players have assurance they don't have to drop everything for future tomes while new players don't have to feel like they missed out on early tomes. I don't know what a fair price would be, but I'd be willing to pay a lot for that guarantee. And it would be advantageous for the devs, too, because then they get a guaranteed paying customer, REGARDLESS of changes they make to tome progression.
0 -
Naw. Pay a flat one-time fee for the specific outfits you like in the store. The rifts fine and dandy. And just like Spirit’s Blight Cosmetic, the rifts not for everyone.
Understood. I’d like to see your response to Deadeye at the end of Page One then.
0 -
No I didn't. But to be fair, I did write about the second tome being good: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/127082/cred-where-cred-is-due#latest
While I recognize your point, I feel that there is a difference between adjusting the values a little bit (12 fragments) and almost entirely reverting a previous adjustment (57 fragments). I can promise you that I would not have created a post if they had gone back to good ol' tome 2.
1 -
@Steel_Eyed That's a good suggestion, actually. When I think about it, the only reason I really committed to the Rift was because of the Wraith and Zarina skins. And other than maybe Ace's poker chip and the Meg doll, the rest of the charms were garbage I'll never use.
0 -
@Steel_Eyed FYI the response is above
1 -
@Steel_Eyed @Jyn_Mojito I think the plan is to add the skins to the store at some point in the future.
0 -
Thank you!!
1 -
I like Nurses mask, Spirits body, Wraith full cosmetic, Megs full outfit, Hag’s head piece specifically but also like the full outfit. I was surprised to read people didn’t like this rift as much as the priors. Love Oni getting some attention.
Some of the Tome cosmetics look more bland in the marketing than they are in use. Huntress’s and Legion’s outfits in Tome 3 are favorites of mine now.
I’m looking forward to this. I switched to PC from PS4 during the second Tome. Although I completed the first rift fully, there’s no cross progression or future cross progression set for outfits. I really miss having the Hillbilly, Nurse, Hag, and Huntress cosmetics. Hope at least Nurse’s gets released this month.
0 -
@Steel_Eyed I'm in the same position as you basically! But if I 'm not mistaken, cross-progression is coming. At least the we can enjoy the same perks on both systems.
0
