The Legion: New Mechanic idea
NEW MECHANIC: "Hidden Wound"
(It looks similar to the ghostface stalk meter on the hud)
- After applying a Deep Wound with your Feral Frenzy to a survivor, he gets 30% of Hidden Wound meter
- After hitting a Deep Wounded Survivor in Feral Frenzy he gets 20% of Hidden Wound meter.
- For each second when the Deep Wound timer is going down a survivor gets 1% of Hidden Wound meter.
- When Survivor is fully healed, he loses the Hidden Wound meter at the rate: 1% for 1 second
- When you hit a Deep Wounded Survivor in Feral Frenzy, which is at the rate of 100% Hidden Wound he is instantly downed, and the Hidden Wound meter depletes entirely
- When you down a survivor in any way, the Hidden Wound meter depletes entirely
*The numbers can be tweaked, balance of it would be shown on PTB*
This new mechanic will make The Legion able to punish survivors for not healing. He will get some lethality but it's counterable by healing and mending
FATIGUE
- For each hit in single Feral Frenzy your fatigue is decreased by 0.5s
POWER GAUGE
- Feral Frenzy power gauge now recover for 15 seconds (from 20 seconds)
HITTING A DEEP WOUNDED SURVIVOR WHILE IN FERAL FRENZY
- Increases the "Hidden Wound" meter by 20%
- Depletes your entire power gauge and ends your power immediately
- Downs a Survivor if has 100% gauge meter of Hidden Wound
- Plays the "Weapon Wiping" animation for 2 seconds (Like when The Legion came out) and after that you get into the fatigue state.
MISSING ATTACKS
- Missing an attack while in Feral Frenzy ends your power immediately and depletes 25% of it. ( So if you missed an attack when you had 50% of your power, Feral Frenzy ends but you save 25%)
KILLER INSTINCT
- the Killer Instinct Notification will scale up/down depending on how far the Survivors are.
- Killer Instinct is now radius based (not terror radius based) so oblivious and undetectable status effects won't ignore it anymore. Killer Instinct radius is 32 meters
DEEP WOUND
- Reduced the bleed-out timer to 20 seconds from 30 seconds.
- Mending time is reduced to 9 seconds
- Mending time by other teammates is reduced to 6 seconds
ADD ONS
RULERS
- Reduces Feral Frenzy recovery time by 2/3 seconds. (From 2/3.5 seconds)
PINS
- Hitting a Survivor highlighted by Killer Instinct while in Feral Frenzy applies the Blindness/Mangled/Mangled & -9% Generator Speed Status Effect for 60 seconds.
- Hitting a Deep Wounded Survivor while in Feral Frenzy applies the Blindnees/Magnled/Mangled & -9 generator speed Status Effect for 90 seconds
I changed The Legion pin because there would be no way to counter the new mechanic.
Killer instinct addons
- increases movement speed while in Feral Frenzy by 0.1/0.2/0.4 m/s
Duration addons
- Increases Feral Frenzy duration by 1/1.5/2.5 seconds
Fatigue addons
- Decreases the faitgue of Feral Frenzy by: 0.4/0.6/1 second
- Decreases the rate of fatigue for each hit in single Feral Frenzy by 0.1/0.2/0.3
(So for example if you have Cold Dirt your fatigue is 3 seconds, but for each hit in single Frenzy your fatigue decreases only for 0.2 seconds instead of 0.5 seconds.)
Blade addons
- Feral Frenzy attacks apply additional 3%/5% Hidden Wound Meter.
Stab wounds study
- When you are in Feral Frenzy you gain the Undetectable Status Effect (this effect persists until the fatigue ends)
Frank's Mixtape
- The Legion can start Feral Frenzy when the gauge is charged above 25%
iridescent button
- The Legion's Terror Radius affects the entire Map.
- Killer Instinct Detection range affects the entire Map
- Any Pallets you vault are immediately broken.
fuming mixtape
- After vaulting a window or a pallet while in Feral Frenzy your power gauge stops draining for 2.5 seconds
- While in Feral Frenzy Auras of Pallets and Windows within 12 meters are shown to you.
NOTE:
This post in most case is an idea and it can be not balanced. I hope you like the idea and that you can give me some your opinions/changes that you would make here
Comments
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I like it!
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thats just old legion with extra steps, however I would be on board with changes to it
Survivors at 80% Hidden wound stay there, the only way to reach 100% hidden wound is with a double tap feral frenzy hit
that way its closer to a 99 with ghostface and survivors survivors don't get downed on the first hit, and don't get downed while away from you
Franks mix tape, No (feral frenzy hits now count as basic attacks instead)
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The Survivors are only getting downed with Hidden Wound when you hit a DEEP WOUNDED survivor in Feral Frenzy. Not on the first hit, always on the second. And yeah the Frank's mixtape also could be changed but as i said I wanted to show you the idea, and possibly make the changes later with the community ;D.
Thank you so much :D. I'm glad you like it
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any more opinions guys? :)
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A neat idea,, with some refinement it could give legion some lethality
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Thanks for a comment :)
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I was rude in your previous iteration of this, and for that, I apologize once more. This is much better thought out than what it was like before.
I think rather than calling it "Hidden Wound" you can just call it marking a survivor, sorta like how Ghosty's stalk is referred to as "marking" in his add-ons.
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I think this is a pretty good idea. That way the Legion is still handsomely rewarded for using their power to split pressure, as intended. They'd be a lot more fearsome in three-gen situations for that reason, and they'd be able to punish survivors going for risky saves with their power much more effectively than they currently can. Still, since the first hit after Legion activates Frenzy is basically free I don't think Legion should ever be able to down somebody with it, even if they banked up hidden wounds by hitting others first. So, I'd change it such that the hidden wounds meter goes back to zero after Legion breaks Frenzy.
If you limit it to one Frenzy, you could simplify things such that any Frenzy where you get 3 (4?) hits, even if the last hit is someone you already deep wounded, causes the last person to go down instantly. Given all the math behind it in your current proposal and the lack of the visual indicator, like an Exposed status, for survivors, it would be useful to simplify things so that they know exactly when they risk going down.
My tweak might make this change not quite strong enough on its own so they might need other buffs too to make Legion actually dangerous, but I think it'd be a good change.
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Very interesting concept. Doesn't take away from their role of dividing pressure, but increases their ability to apply it individually to affect the group.
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I really think if Legion should be given any additional mechanic, it should have to do with his multiple personalities. Hence the name "Legion".
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I'm not offended so there is no problem :). I'm happy that you like this idea :D. Yeah calling it "marking" would make it much easier for everyone so that's a good idea!
I'm glad that you like my idea! :D. Your idea is also good, but i think that it will be hard to use on bigger maps like Red Forest. But still I like both of these ideas :)
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Seems like a fine idea, although it might be a bit annoying for survivors if they have no way of tracking the Hidden Wound % - I get that that's the point but I dunno... Like you said, PTB would figure out if it's balanced or not.
I really like the idea of changing the cooldown when he misses his ability though. Maybe instead of it the gauge remaining where it was when he missed, instead he gets a 25% depletion. That way he still gets punished for missing, but not as much. E.g. If he misses at 75%, it drops down to 50% and then starts recharging.
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to make things clear: Survivors can see the Hidden Wound meter the same as The Legion. :)
And I like the idea with missing the attack that would ballance it more :)
I'm happy you like it :D
You know, everyone has it's own idea. I like the current Legion and i want just some tweaks. You would like to have whole Legion members based power and that's okay. :D
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This is very interesting indeed, but I would suggest the following change:
- Hidden Wound only applies if you're affected by Deep Wound while the timer is going down. With this mechanic, survivors will likely be trying to group up so they can heal each other after Mending. If Hidden Wound is applied regardless, this is essentially punishing them for trying to counter Hidden Wound.
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Doesn't it just breaks the first part of the mechanic?
- After applying a Deep Wound with your Feral Frenzy to a survivor, he gets 30% of Hidden Wound meter.
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No, I meant as a replacement to the passive application mentioned here:
For each second out of chase while Deep Wounded, a survivor gets of Hidden Wound meter. (even while mending)
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I like it! :)
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@Szarman after re-reading, i noticed a few of my own ideas incorperated into this (reducing the DW timer, reducing fatigue by 0.5 secs per successful stab). Coincidence, or are you taking notes, hmm?
Eh, doesn't matter.
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To be honest i haven't seen your posts.
Reducing the deep wound timer is a pretty popular idea. I posted it here because i hate when survivors can open the gate while deep wounded, or even grid pretty nice amount of generator.
I wanted to reduce the Deep Wound timer for each hit in Frenzy, to make the Legion more powerful, after doing a good play.
I had these ideas in my mind for a bit since I'm a Legion main, and i know his weaknesess. But still if I would take it from your post i would ask you if I can use them in my post, and paste link to your post :)
It was just a normal coincidence. :D
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As a legion main I think this idea is pretty good. It's not a major buff that will make them really boring to go up against and it's not a weak buff either. Gives them a little more lethality. It's a bit gimmicky and I like it. But hey come on we gotta get the devs to add in some new chase music for legion. God that would be amazing.
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I'm happy that you like the idea :D. I would also love to see a chase music for The Legion. :)
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Hidden Wound
Hidden Wound would bring back the ability for The Legion to focus down one Survivor. This is essentially the same as old Legion, just with a different mechanic. It also seems incredibly inconsistent. It's quite easy to remove, and reduces progress at a steady rate, so the only real way to ever have a Survivor at 100% of Hidden Wound is by using Feral Frenzy on them over and over again. Couple that with the reduced cooldown on the power gauge, and you're looking at one powerful tunneling machine. I don't think this is the direction Legion can or should be taken. It's way too difficult to make Feral Frenzy lethal.
Fatigue
I feel as though this would be wildly inconsistent. Sometimes all Survivors would be together, allowing you to have an extremely brief fatigue, and other times you would be stuck staring at your hands for a good few seconds. I believe the fatigue should be a flat 3 seconds, and then have 1 add-on that affects this. Double stabbing should indeed cancel out your fatigue state in exchange for a lengthened attack cooldown.
MISSED ATTACKS
The Legion already has very little counter-play. They added the penalty to create very meaningful risk and consequence for missing in Feral Frenzy. I don't believe lessening the penalty within the base power is a good direction to take.
KILLER INSTINCT
Yes, please. Although, I'm not sure the developers are too keen on improving Killer Instinct further, as its already quite the powerful tracking tool.
Deep Wound
While I agree that the timer should be shorter, I think 15 seconds by default is just a tad bit too short. For consistency purposes, (Survivor perks/add-ons) I think the bleed out timer should be a default of 20 seconds.
Add-ons
Etched & Scratched Rulers: I personally think they need a buff, not a nerf. You lowered the cooldown time, and in exchange are nerfing the cooldown add-ons. Makes sense, but I still think they're too weak.
Smiley, Defaced, & The Legion Pins: They should apply their effects on all Feral Frenzy hits. Personally, I love the Broken status effect, and I'm a little sad to see it go, in exchange for mild slowdown. The Legion is already good at slowing the game down, I don't think Survivors would be too keen on holding M1 even longer.
Fatigue add-ons: Rework the lower tier fatigue affecting add-ons to create new and interesting effects, and set Cold Dirt to reduce fatigue by 0.5 seconds.
Stab Wounds Study: I like the idea. I also remember that @Almo mentioned how it would be great for The Legion to have an Undetectable add-on, although Killer Instinct would need to be changed to a static range, just as you suggested within the post.
Frank's Mix Tape: Another great idea, however coupled with the changes you made with Hidden Wound, its too strong, and would bring back old problems.
Fuming Mix Tape: Sounds neat, and is debatably an improvement over the current generator monitoring effect it has.
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Thanks for a comment. But I just wanted to mention that i created the whole "Hidden Wound" Mechanic mostly to make people heal more often. Not just to straightly down. Also i think tunneling won't be a good idea to do beacuse:
first hit that apllies deep wound = 30% and after that hitting a deep wounded surv + 20% = 50% of Hidden Wound timer. Now you have 5.5 seconds fatigue and than 15 seconds power charging so 20.5 seconds.
second hit= +20% hidden wound so together 70%. 6 seconds fatigue and 15 seconds power recharging= 21 seconds
21 seconds + 20.5 seconds = 41.5 seconds.
third hit= +20% so 90% Hidden wound so another 21 seconds of waiting
21+ 20.5 +21 seconds =62.5 seconds
fourth hit = 100% of Hidden Wound. Now wait another 21 seconds
21+20.5+21+21 = 83.5 seconds
and after 83.5 seconds of chasing you start your Feral Frenzy and hit a Survivor at the rate of 100% Hidden Wound. So as you can see not as effective :)
fatigue
I like the idea of reducing hits on hits in single Frenzy but everyone has their own opinion.
Missing attacks
You are right Frenzy has little Counterplay, but missing an attack in current state is too much punishy. Especially for new players. They just miss an attack and become m1 killer for 20 seconds. None of other killers have such a big punishment.
Addons
Rulers: I had to nerf the yellow addon a bit because Frenzy now recharges for 15 seconds instead of 20. So even if you pick them both you have only 10 of charging. I think that's really fast.
Also i had to change the Legion Pin because of the mechanic that i created, and to make it possible to counterplay. I think that additonal -9% penalty to gens is okay.
Fatigue Addons:
I think the addons that i created here can be pretty nice. They remove the inconsistency of how the fatigue can work at the cost of not reducing the fatigue on Frenzy hits.
At the End i wanted to thank you for providing me your feedback :).
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EDIT:
I changed The Blade addons and The Mending time. I think that change could make The Legion less annoying to play against.
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I like the idea of "Hidden Wound", but it feels too complicated. (Too many numbers I would say)
I like all of the base kit changes tho, good job! (I still like the current Terror Radius based Killer Instinct tho, but I could live with your change :) )
The addon's are mostly ok, the fatigue addons need a bit of work, since the fatigue can now be 2 seconds when hitting all 4 Survivors, so with those addons it could basically be an insta down, make it cap at 2 or 2.5 seconds, so these addons will just make your fatigue shorter with each hit, but it will do it faster.
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Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Actually the fatigue addons also decrease the rate of fatigue in each hit in single frenzy. So when you pick Cold Dirt and Joey's Mixtape your fatigue is always 2.5 seconds, and hits are not decreasing it :). That's all. Thank you one more time for commenting! :D
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Changed the blade addons again, to make it more viable for chaining hits, than tunneling one person.
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I really love this idea, they've got the mobility they've always had but reward good players for using the power to the fullest effect. I think Legion should have an indicator for the survivors to see, to tell them that they can be downed with Feral Frenzy. Something small, I'm thinking like a red mist steaming off of their bodies, or the eyes of the mask lighting up red. Something small but still telling. Other than that I would love for this addition. They've got the same issue as clown where as long as the survivors split up and do gens there's nothing that can be done to down them. I just want the kids to get some love!
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Hey! Thanks for a comment. I'm really happy, that you like it :D. Actually My idea was, that Survivors see the Hidden Wound timer and know how many hits they are from getting downed. Also thank you one more time for commenting. If you have any other ideas, you can paste them here, and we can discuss about it! :D
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Honestly I'm not exactly a game design type of person, I'm more of a art design and lore type lol. But in saying that I think I can recognise a good balance idea when I see one. What would your thoughts be on the killers getting taunts and the survivors getting more than two gestures? I'm thinking for survivors they could have a "stay here" and a "be quiet" one, and killers could have unique taunts to go with their personality. Frank and Julie could wipe the blood on their knife into a smile on the mask, like in the trailers, and Susie and Joey could both have something different, although I'm not sure what. What would you say?
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Hey to be honest I like the idea :). They could even create some of the gestures and add them into the item shop for some shards or auric cells. But if they would add something like this, they have to keep it normal and remember that this is a horror game. Additional gestures would be really cool, but we don't want something like famous "dancing emotes" from other games :)
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EDIT: I slightly buffed Fatigue addons :)
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