Why is the swf option a forced thing?
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So i think your posts are very biased. Because what i mainly take from them is:
- SWF want to play with friends, so they should have the option. The killer, however, should not have an option.
- Its ok when SWF is unfair to the killer, because otherwise, solo would be unfair for the survivor. So unfair for the killer is ok, unfair for the survivor is not.
To killers, it doesn´t matter what you think how common or rare toxic swfs are, because killers do have experience with it. And they know how often they experience it.
Yes, i had random groups that were suspected to be swf, because they all played well and worked good together without knowing each other, but its far less common than just swfs.
The seperation of swf and solo queue would allow to balance both queues differently, making the game fair for all players. SWFs just feel punished if they have to play a fair game with their friends, instead of one with a huge advantage.
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Well, so you want the killers to leave first, so noone is left to spend money? because imbalanced games tend to do that, they die out sooner or later.
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It'd not happen if there was an incentive to play against/with SWFs and lobby indicators for them. Like, bonus BP or increased Iridescent Shard gain.
I mean, it would happen in the beginning but most people want to play games.. not play an endless version of "I hope this lobby has no SWFs".
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That already happened. The ones who would leave have left, which is rather ironic since the game is actually borderline balanced right now and was getting this way with the Ruin nerf, AKA the promoter of the great killer exodus at the beginning of this year.
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Absolutely it would be the path of least resistance but also some would elevate their own skills instead of relying on the swf option. Not all killers are op same can be said for survivors. The option should be available! why are so many freaked about this option. Again i am not saying get rid of swfs. Just give all players killer and survivor the choice.
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That is a one sided thought. The other us dbd needs new players not only to play but to buy dlcs a well. But need players leave for various reasons. But having to deal with the toxic element in this game is a huge reason. They can't retain new players. The swf mode is too negative and slows the game from getting bigger. It should be an option that gives the players a choice and new players a fighting chance to enjoy the game without the most toxic component of the game. Again not get rid of it. Just options.😉
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I think it would be a good thing. Some killers would play against swfs for the option to go against 3-4 players with an advantage to keep skills sharp knowing full well toxic is a high possibility. As well as solo queue survivors who have to elevate their games if they feel like the killers would decimate them if this option was made available. I think it would only elevate the game.
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The mori thing would just be a better version of Devour Hope, as the survivors wouldn't be able to get rid of it,
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“Why are so many freaked out about this option?”
Because a lot of people play in some form of SWF that is just a regular, casual group and not some anti-killer SWAT team. They enjoy jumping into a match with a couple of friends and dicking around, probably dying more often than they escape, because getting to play with people they like and chatting ######### is fun.
Your suggestion would kill that option. It would either make queue times for SWF insanely long, or they would have to deal with moris, iridescent add ons, and Spirit/Nurse/Freddy every round. There are a lot of killer players that HATE SWF and would just avoid the option entirely or use it as some kind of “extra sweat” mode. If you don’t think this would drive a LOT of survivors away from the game you’re being naive.
For what it’s worth I play solo majority of the time now but I’ve played in 4 man SWFs in the past. One group I played with, I had a terrible survival rate because most of us were boosted and would scream when chased, give each other bad information, and just play like idiots. How can the killer know whether a group is like that, or the 4 man with Object and a Coldwind offering? They can’t so they’ll assume the worst.
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Exactly the killer really has no choice. I play both and i see the same thing time and time again. Killer is in the lobby red timer ticks down and bam flashlights and sabo toolboxs. Ds and exhaustion perks and unbreakable with bt of course. Survivor solos have to deal with being being bagged and tagged by the swf team they do get lobbied with. Bagged and tagged(slow unhooks if any at all, killer drop offs or mess up skill checks on heals on purpose or the fun alert killer to your location by pallet drops or vaulting windows. These are reasons why going against swfs should be an option.
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Call me naive i am more then alright with that. But it should be an option. You may play casual matchs but because you want casual mean others have to endure or be forced to deal with toxic swfs? Or solo survivors have to survive against a killer and fellow teammates? That's not really balanced then is it?
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Everyone has to endure toxic and sweaty matches in this game. Do you think anyone enjoys playing against moris, or Insidious campers, or Stridor Spirits? Should there be an opt out for all of those as well? Let’s just show everyone their opponent’s load outs pre-game too, that way I can dodge iri head Huntresses and rusty shackle Hags and Objects and DS/UB gamers and Freddys with slowdown builds.
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Game mode vs game perks or offerings are not the same thing. Your a swf keeper got it. I am not. My vote is for options in game mode. I personally think dbd would gain more new players if this was an option. No killers would not rein supreme. I do think toxicity would go down a lot. Killers and solo players would see more balance. I truly think the game would garner a bigger player base.
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Agreed.
Mori's and many addons are desperate for changes. So is the MM system and SWF mechanic. But as long as devs don't start working on thing's but continue to sell costumes instead we will see another 100 threads with thousands of arguments about this stuff.
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I play almost entirely solo survivor and low tier killers these days and I have no problem with SWF existing, it’s just the abusable stuff (like Object) I have an issue with.
It doesn’t really matter either way, the devs will never add a SWF opt out option in a million years so this entire discussion is sort of pointless.
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I fully agree.
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You never know unless you try. Plus if they ever want to attract and retain new players some changes to the swf mode will have to change in some way to compete and gain a bigger following. Not remove just more options.
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To help the new players they should implement a practice mode with bots. The tutorials don't really help that much.
Having an option to turn off swf would hurt the game much more than it would help.
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Currently it already is a better verson of Devour, way better in fact. With it being reworked to be similar, the killer will still have to work for it. Devour games go 2 ways, it works or it doesn't.
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I do agree that a new tutorial needs to be updated. But a swf opt out would Hurt the game. How? Faster solo lobbies. New player retention is almost a given. Swfs might have a bit of a wait. I still believe it would benefit the overall game more then hinder.
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Solo lobbies would also be longer. You can't remove a portion of the survivor pool and then expect lobbies to fill faster.
And then that SWF lobby wait would be an eternity.
If the player base was much much bigger, then a SWF option could work. Unfortunately DBD doesn't have that.
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If the survivor was bigger is a possibility. Everytime dbd drops new known killers. But they(new players) only stay so long. Devs need to figure that why new players bounce. But i think you and i know why. Too much toxicity optioning out swfs would bring those numbers down drastically. Not getting rid of swfs but giving the masses options.
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*Survivor pool was bigger. * it would be a possibility.
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Based on the killer mains I've seen on here....hahahahaha there's no way any of them would ever queue for SWF if they had the option to. Some things just don't need an option, and a SWF queue option would absolutely kill the game. I'm sorry if you think otherwise but there's absolutely no way there'll be enough killers to play against swf groups, and the game would lose about half of its players. The rest will be queueing forever in killer queues because nobody likes playing solo survivor.
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Okay buddy
For starters not all of SWF gameplay is toxic, infact most SWF teams I see that are playing to win (Pretty sure thats what you mean by toxic, most people think of it that way) I usually never encounter in almost my 3 whole years of owning this game.
Along with this, not everyone is an SWF team, I have seen some coordinated solo queue teams recently, and when I do SWF in dbd when I play it I usually Duo or Trio and use stupid perk builds
TL;DR Majority is dead wrong, not that many people are 4 man SWAT team never lose DS,UB, AD, DH gamers
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I disagree whole heartedly that the game would lose HALF its players. Why would killers prefer to opt out of swf? What possibly could chase killers to solo queues? The reasons to keep swfs as a forced option are bad examples. Omg killers would overpower us. Nooo the game would fold and die off. Only swfs can save us. They bring money but the new players who don't have to be forced to play against swfs bring money in too. I hope they make it an option to play with or against swfs. I truly thibk it would bring a bigger audience.
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Not a buddy. But we disagree. 👍I think it would open the game up.
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Actually it would do the opposite, as all killers would disable SWF to prevent facing SWF teams and only face solo teams, resulting in EXTREMELY HIGH queue times for people who want to play a game with friends, resulting in them leaving the game or attempting to queue together in solos
This would chop the player count down massively and possibly result in the death of the game, hence why game companies never want to restrict you from playing with friends
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That’s a strawman, the devs never said swf players don’t have an advantage. In fact they’ve explicitly said they recognize the balance challenges involved with swf.
I don’t remember them talking specifically about an opt out option to not play against swf but my guess is they don’t want to split the playerbase if they can avoid it.
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Pretty sure there were stats somewhere that showed at least half the people who play this game play with their friends.
"Why would killers opt out of SWF?" Idk because playing against 4 solo survivors with no Comms is almost always going to be an easier match than a SWF team with comms? So why wouldn't they choose, and I'll say it again, the path of least resistance especially if that path has literally no downsides for them?
I never said killers would be overpowering. And you haven't given good reasons for the option to exist either. How would effectively saying "hey you can't play this multiplayer game with your friends because your queue times will be an hour long" bring MORE people into the game?!
Look I'm really sorry but I just don't see where you're coming from with this.
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Again forcing the swf option.
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If SWF was an option that killers would totally take over solo games, then you wouldn't need to separate SWF in the first place. Your whole argument is that killers should be given the choice to play against SWF or not, implying that SWF is harder or not an enjoyable game mode. Otherwise why would such a 'choice' be needed.
To quote your initial post : (and no i don't agree with you falsely generalizing an entire section of the game )
"Majority of SWF is toxic"
"The game loses new players all the time because of the abuse feed to new players by swfs"
If this were to be true, and you separated SWF ques, VERY FEW killers would opt into it.
Your other argument seems to be it will bring new players to the game. Perhaps it would, but how many of them join the game because they think it will be a cool game to play with their friends?
I don't deny there is toxicity due to SWF, i don't deny that some SWF groups might be unfun or frustrating to play against. The same can be said about a lot of this game because everybody has their own beef somewhere along the line. Separating SWF ques might increase the player base, but only very briefly once players realize that if they want to play this game socially they have to sit in a que that will be excruciatingly long. Because as you stated "Majority of SWF is toxic" and whether this is true or simply a perpetuated myth based on the actions of the few rather than the many, the statement gets thrown around enough that nobody would touch such a mode.
Social gameplay is a big thing in this day and age, you cannot deny that. Most of us have a group we play with, or perhaps family at home or some other form of gaming social circle. And while yes, DBD does have a decent solo player base, any game that can be considered multiplayer will also have a huge 'group' player base. It's why even single player games hammer in terrible multiplayer modes because word of mouth and 'group gaming' culture continues to grow and make them money.
I don't have a horse in the race one way or another, but your idealist notion that splitting the player base will improve player count and the game overall, is either willful ignorance or not thoroughly thought through beyond the result you hope for.
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Fair. You see swfs as an option. I don't agree. 👍I have given reasons you refuse to acknowledge. But the killers face may change even perk addons. But if the game play doesn't evolve then the game grows stagnant. Map changes are nice and all but its not growth.
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I can't agree that most SWF is toxic. I face a lot of confirmed SWF that plays the game normally and I don't have any toxics in my friendlist
EDIT: Unless the pure existence of a key or a toolbox above yellow is already regarded as toxic (which is BS in my opinion, if someone says so, you just purposely ruin your own gaming experience)
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It's pretty rare to go against a 4 man swf especially one that makes the game near unplayable. I'd opt in just for extra BP or Devotion XP. Only about 5% of red rank SWFs are good enough to outright deny the killer kills.
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The point of opting out is to balance solo and SWF differently, and thus both options would provide a fair game? Then it would actually be no different for the killer. Either you play a weaker killer vs. solo players, or a buffed killer vs swf.
Why do you think people would only choose solo?
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Naive, willfully ignorant, not wanted on forums. Because i believe this game should options. This is my last post on this tread. Insulting someone for have a different view then your own is the behaviour i am trying to tone down in this game. Wishing you all a good week.
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Like prior mentioned, SWF queue times would be pretty long if opting out of SWF was a thing as then almost all killers would want to face solo queue players as they are missing the critical things that only SWF can have, making matches so much easier for them
Also what is stopping players from playing a buffed killer VS solo players?
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Based on their past changes, I have to believe any changes the devs even consider must not split the playerbase, increase queue times, or punish anyone.
Prolly best our suggestions are framed with these in mind.
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Actually no. Nowhere on my post implies you arent wanted on the forums because you believe in options.
All i have done is use your own arguments to prove that your particular solution to this problem is flawed. If you want to make a difference, take your idea back to the drawing board and try again, and no im not being sarcastic. I'm all for change in the game, and calling you naive because you seem to be willfilly ignoring that group play is a large part of the game and the game itself would be negatively affected by a player base split, is not insulting you or telling you to get off the forums. It's asking you to recognize that you might have to rethink your position.
If you want to pretend the mildest of perceived flaws in your theory and character as so offensive as to chase you away that's fine. Personally, while i don't agree with you, i have seen you hold your own throughout this whole thread and don't believe for a second you are quite that thin skinned.
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Yes, you repeated that, but you didnt say why. And the buffed killer would not be availible vs solo survivors, because, as i wrote, both options would be balanced differently. And thus, games vs solo would not be easier than vs swf, because killer would be buffed for swf, and tuned down for solos, making both options valid and fair.
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My correction your argument is sound. Throughout this tread i have been called ignorant and naive and slightly insulted because i refuse to believe this game will fold if the swf change happened. The ebb and flow of new players with new content only lasts for so long. Calling me thin skinned is insulting because i see your points but refuse to be swayed from the idea that the game would die off Or killers would rein supreme if the option was implemented. Granted some perk changes could help. If not the swf option then what suggestion would help balance the toxic levels in the game?
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Lol
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Honestly?
This game has changed from what the devs originally envisioned. Some allowances have been made and while some have been good for the game, others have tipped the balance, and some things cannot be removed or the balance gets tipped even further and the whole thing collapses. Personally, and this is from a standpoint of someone who admittedly couldn't tell you how much work this requires, i think the whole thing should be rebuilt from the ground up.
Instead of splitting up the player base and crossing fingers that the game doesn't die out from lack of a multiplayer option, because i'm sorry but its very evident from countless posts about SWF, very few killers would choose the SWF option, incorporate swf properly, balance it properly, allow multi killer matches where the other side can also have the advantage of comms. Use what has been proven successful and adjust what is causing the most arguments between killer and survivor. At the end of the day its very hard to satisfy everyone, but slapping on a patch by splitting your player base to keep one side happy, is only going to work for a short while before half the games population head off for a game they can play together without having to wait christ knows how long to get in a match.
This probably isn't the answer that you want, but its the most honest answer I can give.
As for calling you thin skinned, I believe my actual words indicated that i DONT believe you to be thin skinned enough to consider my words an insult. I try to be as objective as possible, and pointing out cold hard facts isn't insulting you. It's simply being realistic.
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Then people would queue together in solo to cause SWF v Weak Killer
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because now no one can play swf even if their memeing, or just playing casually and your punished for having friends and killers would need some kind of nerf to make solo playable
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