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Ebony Mori Vs. Devour Hope
Ok, I know, I know, you've seen this argued before.
But here me out:
Can we get rid of Ebony Mori's and only have the green and yellow mori and Devour Hope? At least with Devour they actually have to work for the killer whereas with the Ebony Mori you literally hook them, and chase them again just to kill them as soon as they get off hook.
In MY opinion, I'd much rather be killed by Devour Hope than by an Ebony Mori.
And don't come at me with " It's a totem survivors can get easily", "Survivors have a chance to run away" or " DS saves your from a mori". DS doesn't help if you're already down and not in a locker. And majority of the time you can't make it into a locker.
Comments
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Moris and keys are confirmed to be on the list for changes. We'll have to wait and see.
About for your points, ebonies are just the overkill version of a green mori. But green moris are the basic broken moris. 3v1 early = ggez.
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^ this.
You cant keep Ivory Moris like this, the only "good" thing about them is that they are kinda rare compared to Ebony Moris, which are the most common Moris. Removing 25% of the enemy team early is basically a win.
Also, to add - Devs said that Key and Mori Changes might not come in the same Patch. So we will see the Forum burn if one of it is changed and the other thing later. :>
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Honestly, I don't even like Devour Hope. It's the Hex perk that held back all other Hex perks, at least til Undying came along and combo'd so well with Ruin because Ruin doesn't need stacks to be at its strongest.
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I look forward to the world burning if they don't get changed at the same time
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I'm keen on the idea Otzdarva had for Mori's:
After hooking EVERY survivor at least once, you may kill a survivor by your hand.
This stops the offerings being absolutely game changing, as the killer needs to get 4 alternative downs to force somebody out of the game. If one or two survivors manages to evade the killer for a significant amount of time then it's possible nobody gets Mori'ed all match.
I don't realistically see the devs removing Mori offerings completely, but this would feel like a compromise to keep survivors happy while avoiding anger from killer's. I don't care how they nerf it though, since I rarely use these offerings myself.
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They definitely need to be changed in the same patch. If it's three months in between when Keys are changed and when Mori's are changed, then I can understand people being upset.
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They will be upset either way, because there will be players who think that the Item/Offering of the other side got changed way less than their Offering/Item.
But the Devs said in a recent Q&A that it might be possible that changes dont come at the same time. If that is happening, I just hope they will announce it as well. But knowing these forums, this will not help a lot.
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The issue with this is that you just need to have a player hide in the corner all game and it negates the mori ability completely. Or if you have a swf group running OoO...ouch. I'd rather they just make the mori an option to do only on the third hook. It's a bit faster than carrying them to the hook for the sacrifice so that should keep the killers happy. And since they would be dead anyhow it's not as much of an issue in terms of fairness for survivors.
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Neither of those 2 options will keep killers happy. Mori instead of death hook is actually only useful if the animation is substantially shorter like PH's conditional kill. Otherwise it's almost useless unless you are trying to get around a ds timer because you wanted to tunnel someone.
Personally I believe ebonies should work similar to how devour hope works, with an overall hook action count. The difference I would give between the two is that since you can't take an ebony away from a killer that they still need to hook the survivor once before they can mori.
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removing them is something i wouldnt like, as ive been investing hundrets of thousands of BP into just red moris, which i would hate to just lose by them being disabeled.
dont worry though, Moris (and Keys aswell) are confirmed to be on the list of things the Devs want to look at and change.
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They'll never remove their function entirely as there's something about achievements on console or something that can't be changed.
That said, I dislike using keys and moris immensely. So I only use them for Rift Challenges. But if I use devour hope and, y'know, earn it. I'll be mori'in all day, baby.
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I do have a question for you...
If i, the Killer, never interacted with you, 1 of the 4 Survivors, in any direct manner, but i have been chasing, hooking and getting Tokens from the other 3 pretty damn quick, then come over to you, 1-hit you with my post-cloak super-lunge (Wraith guy here) and kill you right at the Generator you were working on, what would that do to you?
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Not sure if it's an unpopular opinion or what, but even if they are announced to be changed in the same patch they should honestly just disable them until the change goes through. Might be unfeasible as there's achievements and archive challenges that either require or heavily incentivize their use.
The complaints were bad enough when people panic/FOMO-burned their stash of stuff like instaheals, prayer beads and other things that got changed. I don't think any of that even gets close to a world where people try their best to use up their supply of keys and moris in the 2 weeks or so between final announcement of the change and implementation.
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Personally I prefer devour hope because at least survivors have a chance to fight back against an easy kill. In my mind mori's can be fun animation wise but they're pretty much a guaranteed loss for survivors unless it's either an amazing SWF or an inexperienced killer. In solo queue mori's are pretty much a guaranteed win, and especially considering there is no way to counter a mori like cleansing a totem or even DS (Unless you just so happen to have been unhooked less than 60s ago and were lucky enough to find a locker to jump in). Even then the killer can just stand at the locker and wait for the DS period to be over and just kill you. In my mind mori's and keys pretty much need to go point blank, neither require skill to use. As somebody who plays both sides fairly equally I never bring either because they really aren't fair to either side. Just play the game and if you escape, you escape and if you get a 4k you get a 4k. Nothing in this game should be given to you like an easy escape or a quick kill, you should have to earn it one way or another. Closing statement, I run small game so I triple dog dare a killer to run devour in 2020, I am the TOTEM DESTROYER.
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Personally, I think Ivory Moris should be nerfed too. Just being able to do it once is too much of a tempo swing IMO.
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Of course they should disable Moris and Keys when they change them. Just make them useable on the PTB when they get changed but not on the Live Version, otherwise the games will be horrible.
Even tho, so far there was no Archive-Challenge which required a Mori, but there have been Archive-Challenges which required a Key. Not a big fan of either of those.
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Cypress is probably the only decent mori that isn't an issue so I'll agree with you on that.
In my unpopular opinion, ivory and ebony mori's aren't an issue to me, I just play to have fun (if anything I like getting moried because the kills are so creative and fit with some of the killers really well), however I do understand people's frustrations with them and I'm glad others are happy with them getting changed.
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I believe Cypress should be basekit!
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I Was thinking something similar. I don't know what your numbers are but I'm thinking something like the following.
Must obtain 4 hooks before being able to mori a survivor that has previously been hooked. Can mori the last survivor remaining in the trial (cypress mori base kit on all moris)
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I was thinking of 5 total, just because let's say you hook all 4 separately then I think you shouldn't be able to just mori the last person off hook immediately. That being said I think ivory should be handled in a similar manner, but I was thinking 2 actions, that way if you tunneled the same person after 2 unhooks they were going to die anyway.
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That's another thing. Why are killers so upset when survivors have a key? Like, just buff up your gen pressure.
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That's what I'm saying.
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Yes, thank you. I definitely agree, but hiding in a corner I've never done that. Does it actually help?
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If they get rid of keys I'll gladly give up moris(except Devour Hope). I only bring moris if I see a key or I have a daily/ritual. It always confuses me when people complain about getting a Mori through Devour Hope. Like the OP said, you have to work for that. It's a hex perk(no explanation should be needed) They get a notification at 3 stacks that DH is on the map. The killer needs 5 stacks to mori someone and it discourages face camping.
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That's my issues. Killers vs. Keys. Why are keys such a problem? If all survivors get through a hatch then it's your fault for not having gen pressure. Swf or not.
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Its OK to keep them because people let's say they tbagging pallets & trolling the killer its for those survivors or any1 caught by the killer or gets in the way
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See, this, you are my new fav person. This is all I want
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I hope they do a shadow nerf to them, because if they don't, everyone will spam them until they run out on every character. The game will be unplayable for weeks.
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They arent fair. If you don't agree you're entitled, no exceptions.
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This is another possibility. Nerfing Keys and Moris in a Hotfix without any PTB. Either of that (disabling or a Hotfix) needs to be done.
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I feel like if it is objectively true that say, Keys remain unchanged except for a 2 second channel, but Mori's get changed to something like, Ebony and Ivory Mori's are removed, I could see a reason for people being upset.
I don't think that will happen, but it isn't wrong of them to complain if one side of that equation is dealt with more harshly than the other, imo.
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Yellow Mori is too weak, virtually any time you can kill the last survivor with it you could just hook them. It's useless. Green Mori is ok as is. Red Mori is overpowered.
My suggestion is still:
Yellow Mori - Lets you kill any survivor you've hooked twice (Better than the current version but still not as good as Green. Plus you can get multiple mori animations.)
Green Mori - Lets you kill one survivor you've hooked once. (No change)
Red Mori - Both of the above. Lets you kill one survivor you've hooked once and any survivor you've hooked twice. Not as powerful as the current version but still better than Green and still lets you get multiple mori animations.
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This is totally different from changing them in different Patches. This is making Key slightly weaker and making Moris way weaker/remove them, instead of "Do something to Moris in this Midchapter-Patch and Keys will be changed the next Midchapter-Patch". If it happens that Keys and Moris get changed in different Patches, it should be communicated, but like I said, I doubt it will help much, because this community likes to read what they want to read. And if only Keys are changed, they will flame that Moris are untouched and vice-versa.
The green and red Mori would still be too strong. It does not matter that you can kill another Survivor after they have been hooked twice, if you get one Survivor out of the game early, you won anyway. And given that the Ebony Mori is so common, this should not be the possibility. Normal games with decent Map Pressure are: One Survivor on the Hook, one Survivor in a chase, one Survivor going for the Unhook (at least), one Survivor working on Gens. This way the Killer has great Map Pressure.
But if you can remove one Survivor early with so little effort compared to a normal game, you have no Survivor left to do Gens, meaning, you would easily win this game, since the Survivors would be constantly in chases or Unhooks and there would be no time to do Gens.
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I disagree that a Green mori is an instant win. You still need to be able to down the same survivor twice before the rest of the survivors get to within 1 gen of completion which is by no means guaranteed. Four gens can be completed by three survivors in about 120 seconds with no buffs or tools (80 seconds for three solo gens and about 40 seconds with two survivors on a fourth.) It can take 30 seconds to get the first hit and another 30 seconds to get the first down on the first survivor, which means you then have only 60 seconds possibly for that survivor to not only be pulled off the hook but then find them again and down them in order to get the mori.
Basically the one hook early kill is an advantage but definitely not an insurmountable one, at least not with a single survivor. The Red mori is overpowered because getting two hooks shaved off the time is too much, let alone three.
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