General Discussions
General Discussions
Dead by Daylight 2 : Nurse gets axed
is not going to happen given the devs are talking about 4 new killers a year, but I'm basically writing this to say that I'd bet if there were a DBD2, Nurse wouldn't be in it.
The game is already asymmetrical, and I think that all in all the devs do a good job balancing.
But balancing for the average killer ...
and then having to balance for a killer who doesn't just ignore loops, but ignores stairs?
The only way to balance her is to provide maps that break the game for any other killer.
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I think that all in all the devs do a good job balancing.
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How many asymmetrical online multiplayer horror games wherein each killer has a unique power and each new character introduces 3 new game-altering effects are you currently balancing?
It's not perfect, but I think everyone in the community underestimates how mammoth of a task this is.
I'll grant that they're probably using addiction-causing design strategies.
Post edited by Mandy on7 -
All everyone is talking about is ruin undying. Undying entirely changes the meta, and it was released, what, a month ago? So the idea the meta hasn't been shaken up rings false.
Except the toast in this instance is an entirely new dish with 700 ingredients made by a new, underfunded chef.
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He meant survivor meta. Even changing killer meta there is no way of survs running small game or detective hunch.All exhaustion perks must be severely nerfed.
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He didn't imply that but okay, does ruin undying change the survivor meta? There's a good argument to be made that it does. Maybe it doesn't flip a core ludic premise on its head in a satisfying way, but it does effectively stall the game, which is what killer mains had been calling for. If the pendulum swings toward killer mains, future survivor perks can become more powerful.
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That's reductive. Perks provide awareness, help in chase, slowdown, and second chance just to name a few.
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Let's not forget patch 1.9.2 That was the day I lost faith in BHVR.
Name 1 2nd chance perk for killer that cannot be completely countered by the survivors.
Asymmetrical games often die. I still miss Evolve Stage 2. The game has gotten better but it's also gone backwards at times. However if not for the constant DLC, license characters and the fact there's hardly any competition I don't think DBD would have lasted as long as it has.
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I think that all in all the devs do a good job balancing.
"Just pressure gens".
Yeah. Seems about right. Who needs nurse if I can just walk with my cool lil' hag around Mother's Dwelling. Survivors will fear the pressure that my presence is radiating from far across the map.
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Yeah of course. And SWF too. And nobody would play dbd2 anymore.
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"It's one of the only ones attempting it, therefore it has to be balanced!"
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Not what I'm saying. My argument is that the task is bigger than we give it credit for being.
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Maps like mother's dwelling exist because killers like nurse exist. That's my point.
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That's fair.
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Do you like that the game is unbalanced?
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Nurse is beatable, because her mobility sucks on bigger maps.
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But that's part of why balancing is so difficult for the devs, right? The only counter for the nurse is a big map ... But aside from the 2-3 killers who perform well on big maps, every other killer on the roster takes a nearly automatic if they draw mother's, Thompson, or Ormond.
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Noed is effectively a second chance perk: Oh you lost the game? Here, a first hit is now a down.
I don't often run noed bc I feel like it's cheating, but the survivors' counter for it, i.e. scrambling to find the lit totem at the end of the Trial, is much riskier than cutting losses and getting the heck out.
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NOED is a hex perk. It can be removed before it ever comes into play. Are you new because there have been many many threads about how NOED is no where close to a 2nd chance perk. Nothing killer has comes close to the power of DS.
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True.
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I have 22 posts. I'm also a designer. And there can be value in listening to outsiders bc a lot of the critiques legacies make of this game are herd mentality.
But it lights a previously dull totem, so if the killer isn't running undying, there's a good chance the survivors haven't been meticulous about doing dull totems.
It effectively transforms the collapse from a survivor afterparty to a mad dash for the hatch or gates so there's a sound argument to be made that it's functionally a second chance perk.
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The reason I ask if your new is you could have a lot of playtime but just recently made an account on the forums or you could be using an alternate account.
I'm not a designer but in my opinion making perks/powers that only work if the survivors don't feel like countering it usually means "It'll work on newbs but nothing else". Inner Strength is a pretty good healing perk and most people are going to look for totems for that. Experienced players even know where most totems can show up. I would not consider noed or any hex perk 2nd chance because it depends on the survivor's negligence. NOED can be removed before it activates, they just have to stop rushing gens and look for totems. DS on the other hand, the killer can do nothing to remove that. No matter what the killer has to play around it. He either has to wait 60 secs, slug or take the stun. That is a 2nd chance perk. There's nothing the killer can do that will remove DS from the match. "Don't tunnel" doesn't count because it is still buying that survivor a 2nd chance.
Undying is cool but it's has the same issue as running a hex perk with Thrill of the Hunt. Your spending 2 perks slots for 1 perk. Hex perks are risky because if they cleanse it your down a perk for the rest of the match. Running TOTH or Undying just feels like double downing.
No one mentioned it but Blood Warden almost could be considered 2nd chance if not for the fact most experienced survivors 99% the gates so it won't activate. Still hilarious when it goes off. They teabag at the exit, turn around and realize they can't get out /kefka laugh
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I see your point. I've never run Blood Warden bc I don't have Freddy yet, and frankly he looks pretty boring to me!
At the risk being pedantic though, there are also killer-sided maps, right? Doctor on Lehrys is a nightmare. Billy on any of the larger maps if the tiles are okay. Etc. On these maps, survivors actually have to be incredibly efficient, and the first corner to cut is dull totems. And then, say there's 2 survivors at the collapse? If noed lights up the chances of a 4k spike significantly. So maybe it's a situational second chance perk.
I think what the devs want is a game that's balanced on average. If Nurse is in the game, Ormond must also be in the game. If a player can pick Nurse, a player can also pick Ormond. That part makes sense--unless you're a solo Dwight in Midwich against a Nurse, or a Trapper in Ormond against a SWF. For those 10 minute matches, the Dwight/Trapper actually is helpless.
Whether or not the devs have actually designed this level of frustration intentionally though is another question. A lot of the science around social media shows cycles of dopamine hits<-->abstention thereof causes addiction and further engagement with the platform.
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