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Hex: Huntress Lullaby now only affects healing and repairing skill checks, but why
isn't this hex already a bit weak? I just don't get it
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What other skill checks are there in the game? Did it affect the doctor's skill checks? I don't remember because I can't think of any time I've gone against a doctor with lullaby. What about the portal skill checks?
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it did affect the doctor.
don't know about portals
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I don't think BHVR wants perks like Lullaby or Unnerving Presence to effect skill checks from killer powers or other perks. It's just a change to make the perk consistent with how BHVR wants these skill check based perks to work.
Unnerving was changed a while ago to make it no longer work with DS and Lullaby didn't work with the pig boxes.
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Probably the DS skill check. In that case its not a big change.
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It affected, doctor and pig skill checks!
Though it was funny af watching teammates scream as they struggled to hit their madness skill checks at 5 stack lullaby
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And it also affected DS skill checks
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It did not affect Jigsaw-Boxes for a long time. And it was not intended to affect Doctors Skillchecks. So it was more like a Bugfix and clarification.
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To be fair, those are the only skill checks that matter. I'd call this a minor buff, but it doesn't really prevent the Hex from getting cleansed early by virtue of just being seen burning. In fact, it would be kind of nice if hexes like this didn't even trigger on a totem until you start gaining tokens. (Such as also working on Third Seal, for example, until you hit someone.)
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It was affecting some things like Snap Out of It, but not others like Jigsaw Boxes and Decisive Strike. We wanted to do a consistency pass on it, and we didn't want to have to worry about this perk's affect on every system that uses skill checks. So this was the best solution.
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What if this is a prelude of hook skill checks instead of key/button spamming 🤔
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Will this perk receive buff in the future? Or maybe a rework?
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Was it buffed where you only get notified there's lullaby when there is a token?
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No disrespect, but what you're saying is that is was nerfed because the dev team didn't want to put the effort in to adjust it for each new skill check added? Why not just put the effort in to REWORK the perk to make it *consistently good*?
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My only issue with Huntress Lullaby is it seems a bit weak as a Hex. Even with all the tokens built up on it the impact seems not as good as other Hexes like Ruin and Haunted Grounds and NOED and Devour Hope.
Assuming they want to keep it as a hex, it could probably use a slight buff, maybe making it also speed up the skill check dial slightly per token? So at 5 tokens the skill checks both have no audio cue and the dial is moving a bit faster as well. Something to make the skill checks hard enough at that point that even good players occasionally miss them.
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As other people have already mentioned above. They've brought it back to what it was originally intended to do. The other interactions that require skill checks were brought after huntress and made the perk pretty inconsistent and also confusing to a lot of players using it. For example, think of a new pig player bringing in lullaby to get head pops only to see survivors taking off their traps without any issue and thinking she must be playing against skill check gods.
Things that are pretty straightforward to some may be quite confusing to others.
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While I completely understand and agree with a consistency update. Flatout taking functions out of the perk without including anything to compensate just nerfs what was already a underused perk. Unintentional or not the inconsistencies had been apart of the perk for so long that they had become a feature
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Off topic but is there a hotfix coming soon? Just out of random curiosity.
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You are mistaking the reduction of combinations of interacting systems for laziness. In programming, we try to reduce dependencies as much as possible, so when you change one thing, it doesn't break a bunch of other things. It's the same with game design. There are 22 killer powers, 134 perks, and a bunch of disparate mechanics including Survivor items and addons. Those numbers are only going up; so we must take care not to increase the number of combinations of mechanics we have to check with each new addition any more than we have to.
And occasionally, we'll take steps to reduce the complexity in the interest of facilitating future design work. This was one of those times.
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I'm currently studying Game Programming and Game Design, so I understand, but why not just rework the perk to be less cluttering and more balanced at once? It seems counter-intuitive not to just rework the perk and to just nerf it for simplicity instead.
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Then why didn't you buff it while you're at it, the perk is clearly underpowered, and whatever the intensions, it got nerfed unnecessarily.
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How much of a nerf is it? It certainly is less useful in certain weird builds, like a Doctor mega-mess-with-skill-checks build. Without hard data, we can't say. But our expectation is that the perk's performance overall will not change much. So what you don't want to do is mess with a perk that's good before knowing for sure there's a problem with it.
Reworking it before having data on this iteration's performance would be like optimizing code before a profiler tells you it's really causing a problem.
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This was one of those times.
I couldn't resist sorry, lol
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It seems a bit strange to say that this change won't negatively affect the performance; a big chunk of the reason the perk was even used has been eradicated. There's now no incentive to use this perk above other ones (like Ruin) because it doesn't have a useful effect, making it inferior to literally all of the other slowdown perks (Pop gets rid of 25% as long as you do well and is not a Hex, Ruin is always active starting from the beginning, and Huntress's Lullaby inferior (both in terms of slowdown AND activation time) perk compared to them).
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never used the perk much but on doctor was a pain.
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doctor skill checks with lullaby can be very annoying. I had double skill checks against a doc that for some reason were really fast. Then again it could have just been the double skill checks and the speed. Idek at this point the game is having some big changes
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Good, no more obnoxious impossible skill checks when trying to snap out of it.
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It never affected pig's jigsaw boxes
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I'm sorry but outside of that one doctor gimmick/meme build the perk was never used.
You have the current data for this iteration already you just have to look at how it performs outside of doctor games is all you'd need for this version as this change almost exclusively effects 1 build.
I think that's enough of a sign that the perk needs a rework.
Also if you don't have enough data to make a conclusion on the perk outside of that one doctor build then that is evidence in and of itself due to mass underuse.
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I don't know how much hard data you're planning on getting.
It was probably one of the if not the weakest hex the game in the game. In fact outside skillcheck doctor build and adept huntress you barely saw that perk.
The data you already had is pretty much it going to stay the same or get worse. You basically took away a variable that was barely used anyway so I really don't know what results you're expecting.
If you had instead increased the variables like actually tried making it work on killer powers then it would be understandable to gather data but in its current state after the update you literally already have all the data you need.
Post edited by Volfawott on5 -
This change was intended to nerf impossible skills check doc and nothing else. Since it was only ever used in that ONE specific build you can be your bottom dollar that it will be completely useless now instead of "totally useless except this ONE build on this ONE map."
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TBH this only really changes Doc and DS.
It's honestly a bit BS that lullaby affected Snap Out skill checks. That build is probably the most annoying one in the game when done right.
As for DS, like you know the skill check is coming. Whether or not it plays the sound it kind of irrelevant.
Really this change only affects Impossible Skillcheck Doc, which is a ######### build to play against anyway.
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I like how you take out of the top hat asumptions like "it was not intented" when lullaby affected doctor skillchecks from the start, and it was like that from years. If it wasn't intented from the beggining they could change it a long time ago because huntress and doctor are original dbd killers..
The correct to say here is that they decided to change it now probably because of undying+lullaby+unnerving. I can understand the change but its a pity because as a backfire of that balance change they are reducing viable killers builds without adding anything new to compensate.
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It was said by a Dev on Stream, I am not making my own assumption. Otherwise I would have said "I think" or something like that. Sounds too logical, eh?
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You would think, but some people on these forums have an IQ lower than their rank. Just a general observation of the forums. Not picking on anyone in particular.
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A better question would be "Who cares?"
Seriously they fixed one of the main reasons the perk was bad and people are all here complaining that it doesn't affect the skillchecks that have a quarter of a circle white zone and on top of that are fixed onstead of random anymore.
This is why the forums aren't being taked seriously
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The main issue with lullaby is its effect is too minor for more or less having the same token stacking condition as DEVOUR HOPE(5 hooks!).
If a perk asks you to get hooks for it to do anything and it can be destroyed before it does it has to be insanely powerful to make up for those 2 overlapping downsides which it simply does not.
If they made its skill check altering effect baseline at the current equivalent of 2 stacks and reduce its total stack needed to 3(While still keeping the max stack effect).
Then it would have fixed the perk's main issue but as it currently stands it does too little for what it actually asks of you.
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Note how i said "one of the main reasons".
That the survivors were notified of the perks excistance before it had any effect and when the survivors are at their strongest was a serious hinderance.
I agree that 5 tokens is waay to much for what you getting but you can't deny they made a pretty significant positive change to the perk and people are complaining about the most irrelavent thing I've seen in this game.
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Interesting that there's a "lack of data" for buffing a Killer perk, but always bucketloads of data for nerfing them.
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AS a doc main I have to admit I never used Lullaby even once as there are far better perks to use on doc imho. So the change keeps the perk as uninteresting to me as it was before.
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It wasnt changed they updated the text because it had sabbo in description but with the sabbo change there are no skill checks it didnt affect pig or demo idk about doc
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What was the reasoning behind not making it affect all skill checks? Or, perhaps a better question to comment is: what benefit is there in "consistency" if interactivity and ingenuity are sacrificed i.e. the fun of it all? Hex: Lullaby's effects certainly don't make actions such as the Jigsaw Box interaction as nearly as impossible as one might think, and the alternative of all skill checks being affected wasn't even tested on a PTB. Not using the existing tools to check the playerbase's reaction to changes makes players feel underappreciated and undervalued (as I certainly feel about many changes currently done without a PTB).
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Have you ever went against a doctor who had an impossible skill checks build on? No? Didn't think so. Everytime is was a pain getting out of madness 3 with lullaby being at max tokens. To pair it with that you can't do any actions but vaulting while in tier 3 so you couldn't fix gens, heal, and break totems. Which is probably the reason they nerfed it because of the annoyance of going an impossible skill check doctor build
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They did it so they can make a new perk that affects everything else whenever the new killer comes out is my guess 😭😂💀
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