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The Event is but a symptom to a larger problem

LuffyBlack
LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595
edited October 2020 in General Discussions

Disclaimer: This post is going to come with some pretty unpopular opinions. If you do not see a problem with things as they are then this post isn't for you. Nor does this post intends so shame any tactics from players on either sides.

But everyone is so focused on the event that I worry that they'll let up once the developers fix it. The event is not the main issue here, Dead by Daylight following trends in modern gaming is. Why does Dead by Daylight need a battle pass?((The Rift)) Why are people tolerating fee to pay mechanics in a game that cost them an entry price? I'd go as far as to say having to purchase certain characters in order to get perks that are pretty damn vital to the game is pay to win. We're so content to shame other players for not playing in ways we like but we don't dare to challenge the developers into to crafting an experience that is dynamic and enriching for both sides. We're fine with being sold solutions to problems they create themselves. That's something we need to stop. Anyways here are the points that interest me:

"The developers need money for this game to stay afloat. They're a small indie company"

Wrong. They've been in the game since 1997. Their first title was Jersey Devil for Playstation One. The microtransactions, the grind, and the likes are a means for these companies to impress their shareholders. Hell many of these companies don't even pay their taxes. They will see more money than we will for our entire lives.

"But Luffy, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE COSMETICS!!!"

No developer put microtransactions in their game for you not to purchase them. None of them. These people aren't your buddies, they are a corporation trying to squeeze as much cash out of us as possible. How? There are many means to do so. Some companies use FOMO to exploit their customers, this is basically the fear of missing out. Some use skins, this is a popular method used by Epic Games with Fornite. So imagine you're a kid right? You are playing a default character while you're surrounded by the cooler kids with the better skins that they paid with their parents' money. The haves and have nots. There's another tactic of making purchases confusing for customers, this is a popular one I've seen often in my line of work. They're either elderly people or former addicts who are desperately trying to turn to a new hobby only to be exploited. These addicts gain a new addictions in the form of loot boxes, microtransactions, and etc. I've seen horror stories where they spend thousand of dollars. If they aren't exploiting weaknesses, making you feel like you are missing out, or making you feel like a peasant there's nagging and annoying you when you're trying to play the game in peace. God, I hate the Rift so much. I can't even count how many times I accidentally click on the little thing on the right. Don't even get me started on how the mentally ill are exploited too.

"You could just work to get the skins."

See most fee to pay games will see their customers work what is pretty much a part time job in order to earn a fancy costume or in this case a character that will grant that player an advantage. According to my research, it takes around 70 hours? I'm hoping someone smarter than me will bring clarity to this. I don't know about you, but that's far too much for people who have to work, have families, and other obligations, so what do they have you do? Just pay to bypass all of that crap. It's maybe 50 shards per level? To make matters worse we don't even have crossprogression yet. So you either going to get on the grind or purchase the DLC again.

"Just purchase them with shards from the Shrine of Secrets"

Lets me start by saying that I want to be as nuanced and charitable as possible here, but no. I understand that the game has to be balanced, there are decisions the team has to make that are unpopular even someone like me gets that but what I don't like are selling solutions to the problems the developers themselves cause. Gen times were going too fast? How about slow progression perks? Survivors have an issue with tunneling or camping? How about characters like Ash who allows you to take another hit then we nerf him later on? Who thought MOM was a good idea? If I were a survivor, I'd be steaming. Even that one of DS didn't interest me, especially not to the point of celebrating. I know in an action horror game a perk of this nature would make sense, but that only works if the killer is an imposing force. Like how knives will save your butt in Friday the 13th: The Game. A Leatherface putting most of your team in the basement while you must brave the jaws of death to rescue them sounds awesome, it's just like the movies in that regard! Especially if they're using Insidious. Those Leatherfaces are my favorite to play against. But in execution it falls flat. Dynamic tools should be built into the game in order to maintain the feel of cat and mouse. If you want to have perks be the solution then at least do something cool like having Sabotage cut down a player on a hook, the hook could still be stuck inside of their body thus causing the bleeding status effect and it'll take another player to remove it, could be an interesting counter against camping while not screwing over the killer and still maintain some form of horror. Give killers more tools to work with that allows for creative play and freedom. You're going to force killers to be responsible for the survivors' fun then at least built new game modes within the killers. Hell, have The Pig have extra "games" survivors could play or give the Trapper more dynamic and interesting traps to play with. Or put your chapters on hold to get rid of bugs and glitches, then focus on balance. We should not be sold a solution in the form of perks, perks should be the extra spice during matches.

So this brings me to my next point...Dead by Daylight should be free. I could probably forgive all of the bull crap if it was. Then it'd be just like all of the other free to play games with stuff you could buy. There was never any need for a pass in this game, even Fornite whom I used as a bad example is free. And the events that come with the game are...weird but engaging. Dead by Daylight has so much potential to do the same thing but the developers refused to. Some of us have been discussing this for years only to be shunned now players are seeing how bad things can get. We shouldn't let up because we love the game nor should we let up after they fix the event. Things need to change. I'm willing to wager the rivalry between killers and survivors could be fun if the initial problems were fixed. A rivalry between two sides are awesome in gaming, it's the reason I loved DC Universe Online when I did. Don't even get me started on the crappy reporting system, how much racism and harassment players have to endure before Behavior concern themselves with the safety of their community?

Anyways that's my rant, I apologize if it's a novel. But I've been wanting to make this post for a while. Regardless of our position we're all here cause we like Dead by Daylight.

TLDR: We shouldn't be content with being sold solutions to screw ups the developers cause nor should we excuse live service BS in our games. It isn't innocuous, it actually harms people who are vulnerable. INB4 this is moved to feedback

Post edited by LuffyBlack on
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Comments

  • DarkSonAaron
    DarkSonAaron Member Posts: 24

    I agree with you on a lot of this but unfortunately this is modern day gaming, and even worst there's a lot of people that won't stay on track because one of the favourite characters got a half decent skin. The only issue I really have with what you said is this: "The developers need money for this game to stay afloat. They're a small indie company", while I do agree that they make a lot of money (from what I can see around 109m per year) we don't know if they use that just to flood money into the higher ups accounts or if they are actually trying to use that for growth and make the game better overall especially considering that this is their biggest venture and revenue stream.

  • Terro
    Terro Member Posts: 1,171

    It's actually a lie that companies don't pay taxes. There are companies (and ppl) that don't pay certain taxes but they do actually pay other taxes. U can't point to one and act like they're not paying millions in taxes. Whether or not u feel that the company should be paying every tax cuz they're rich enough is a different discussion. Then there are some articles that act like because the companies overpaid in taxes and got money back from the government, as shown in records, the government is paying tax payer money to companies. Finally, there are the ppl that imply that tax credits and tax breaks are the same thing as governments giving money to companies. I wish my tax credit from my school loans was the government giving me money but it isn't.

  • tattiepicker
    tattiepicker Member Posts: 6

    I bought the pass once for the clown cosmetics and I didnt get to max level after trying as hard as i could so i haven't bought the pass again. Dont need it. Plus I use shards to buy the new characters so it ain't that bad. This isnt pay to win in the slightest.

  • Pawcelot
    Pawcelot Member Posts: 985

    Good post. Have an upvote!

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    Thank you friend :) Always inspiring to see this community unite for something that matters

  • TheButcher
    TheButcher Member Posts: 871

    Here's a better line for you;

    "How dare a buisness try to make money"

    Give your head a shake

  • thefallenloser
    thefallenloser Member Posts: 1,281

    I’m... not sure if you’re trying to call Warframe pay to win or actually meant to spell it as “play to win,” which would be weird...

  • thefallenloser
    thefallenloser Member Posts: 1,281

    I wouldn’t even call Warframe a shooter, it’s more of just a third-person action game. There are guns, bows, launchers, and stuff like that but there’s also deep melee combat and powers. Pretty good, with a pretty cool story.

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    Oooooh! I've good things and I love the design of the characters. They remind of Cyborg Ninja from Metal Gear lol. I've been looking for new things to play so I might check it out.

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,418

    “do something cool like having Sabotage cut down a player on a hook, the hook could still be stuck inside of their body thus causing the bleeding status effect and it'll take another player to remove it”

    This hook sabo save idea is fantastic!

    ...and it makes perfect sense. They can sabo vacant hooks, shouldn’t be anything barring survivors from taking down those which are occupied. Incorporate an anti-tunnel mechanism in there somehow, and it’s golden.

  • DerpyPlayz
    DerpyPlayz Member Posts: 583

    besides for the last snowflakey comment, all in all this is a good post

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    A combination of both somehow...

    Would Olga count as a cyborg?

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270

    Very good post,thank you for slightly raising the quality of the forum with it <3

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    Of course. I had a lot of subjects in mind that I'd like to explore later, some that have been discussed to death but I want to tackle them in unique angles people haven't considered before. I appreciate the support.

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    Maybe, the hook rescue from the way I pictured it was a risk vs reward kind of deal so while you've pulled off this crazy rescue you still have to deal with the blood trail and the removal of the hook. I'm unsure how I'd integrate an anti-tunneling method into that and I'll admit to some bias as I am not the best person to ask as I consider camping and tunneling strategies, but I think allowing both players to have more tools in their arsenal will lower the amount of players getting camped cause killers will have other ways to ensnare their prey. I hope that makes sense.

    I might come up with a more detailed suggestion post for this later. Something that account for both sides.

  • NursesBootie
    NursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159
  • thefallenloser
    thefallenloser Member Posts: 1,281

    Yeah... gonna have to disagree with you there then... you can get pretty much everything for free.

  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    You know I paid 10 bucks once for 1000 auric cells to buy the premium rift pass once i got to tier 70 and then got those 1000 back. then rift pass 2 comes out i use those 1000 to get the premium again and get 1000 back. do it again for rift 3 and again get them back, do it again for rift 4 and get them back. just before rift 5 i was given 1000 auric cells by the company (I had NOT asked for anything) so for 10 bucks i've gotten $50 worth of auric cells that is one way to look at it. another way to look at it is that i've paid 2 dollars for 4 rift passes and when I complete rift 5 i'll be at even less. (normally after rift 4 i'd be at $2.50 per rift) it is just getting to be a better re-occuring investment since i get to the end of the rift without any problem at all with a bit of effort through out to do the tome challenges so i get all the extra fragments!

    I chose to pay 10 bucks in at the begining and that is ALL I have EVER paid for the rift itself. this is not a battle pass that gives you special weapons to use against the killer and get out of the match because of these "weapons" it's a I want to look good. you don't have to buy any one rift and while you play you still get a few things. so it's 100% voluntary, this argument is old and stale because people actually do like doing the challenges. i just did the stun the killer 4 times, got one pallet stun, and 3 head on's while doing what I could to rescue, heal and complete gens to get people out. I didn't get out but the other guy did so that's all that mattered. it was fun to challenge myself to get better at doing somethings in the game i'm not totally used to what is wrong with earning a few or more cosmetics just because i play the game?

  • Jyn_Mojito
    Jyn_Mojito Member Posts: 515

    Just had to chime in, Warframe is AMAZING! I love the character customization, there's events, and LOTS of lore 🥰

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,347

    I think the problem isn't that people are "falling for it" and purchase a skin to support the game. Moreover, the issue is people aren't buying a skin to support a game; they're buying a skin because they want the skin. It's little to do with actively supporting a company consciously. They know what they want. They know where the money goes. There is nothing to fall for. It's a willingness to buy.

  • BigTimeGamer
    BigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752

    At least COD's battlepass is usually worth it with high quality cosmetics all the way through

    also the game works and is fun

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    And this disputes my point, how? Dead by Daylight should be a free game if it has these mechanics, it's borrowing from the business model most mobile phone games have. The very purpose of these models is for you to part with your hard earned cash once you have tired of the grind, it's a manipulation tactic. I fail to see how your willingness to be a whale makes it any less worse.

    Doesn't change the fact that these purchases send the wrong message to Behavior who like many companies are beholden to their investors than their customers. I find this move to be strange because a lot of these gaming companies are being taken to task. Behavior is no different in this regard.

  • Freki
    Freki Member Posts: 1,903

    Actually it is not borrowing from the mobile model, it's borrowing from EA who was decidely the first to push micro transactions in their games. and that's what behavior is doing, and their games are still at cost depending on age. but the battle pass itself first came out in moba style games like smite and league. then it went to COD and other games including mobile. but also the micro-transactions for the cosmetics are modeled after mmo's. most of the games include performance boosters in their battle pass but dbd did not do that here it is ALL COSMETICS. and if you think DBD should be "FREE" tell me, would you give away a book you wrote because you shouldn't charge for the book as you'll get a line of toys with it? come on, there are a great deal more to this than free games. it is actually proven that most games that are "FREE" are supported by other titles, for instance look at ESO, one of the few mmo's that doesn't support itself totally and then fall out 76, which is a huge flop for the mmo market for many reasons. and they are STILL trying to make their money back on 76 but that's hard when people won't pay for much.

  • jhiieri
    jhiieri Member Posts: 24

    What you call "willingness to buy", I call "falling for it". To-may-to to-mah-to.

    Every micro-transaction game tries to excite that part of your brain that controls your willingness to buy something. Those that fall for that marketing ploy spend money.

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,347

    That discounts free will. The people make a conscious decision to purchase, with the exception of addiction. Falling for it implies someone was tricked or manipulated. Willingness to buy means they know what's happening and choose to do it with no edging. That part of the brain that's stimulated is only a small part of the overall decision-making.

    You can keep your fruit analogy though. I don't like tomatoes, no matter how you pronounce it. :p

  • kcwolf1975
    kcwolf1975 Member Posts: 651

    I don't know why it is such a big deal that dbd isn't free. It has been on ps+ before so it was free to a lot of people and it is regularly on sale for around $12. You also need to remember that free to play was not an option for dbd, it would not have lasted a year.

    But even if it was free, wouldn't people still buy skins? I don't, but I see nothing wrong with it. It doesn't give you an advantage (not pay to win), so what's wrong with someone buying a skin if they want it?

    I love the rift, it gives me something else to do which is what this game needs. It has a free track, so you can participate without paying a dime. You can also wait and buy it at the end so you know exactly what you are getting for your money. If you play a lot (and I mean a lot), they even give your auric cells back.

    As far as taking advantage of people, you can't blame BHVR if people can't control themselves. Are the beer companies to blame if someone becomes an alcoholic? All advertising is scummy on some level, it is just trying to find ways to get your money. Hello capitalism.

    My only problem with BHVR, is that there are a lot of bugs/issues that take way too long to get fixed (if they ever do).

    As long as they don't go pay to win them I will continue to play/support them.

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    If their strategy is to wind me down with dumb then it's working. I could only find ways to repeat myself so many times.

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595
  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    I am trying to understand your logic, I won't lie its a mess to navigate through. Getting through this stoned makes it all the more challenging.

    If you want to argue in defense of a game then EA is the very last example you'd like to use, but that'd be the one thing we agree on. Behavior is heading in the same direction as EA but without the safety blanket. A novel and a live service video are two different forms of media. When I sell a novel to the public then have toys license for it, I am not having the book have a few pages missing while I sell my customers chapters then annoy them half to damn death while they try to enjoy it in peace. That comparison doesn't add up. And this post wasn't just about DBD being free, did you even bother to read the rest of it?

    I'm not trying to be a douchebag, but I am confused. 🤔

  • LuffyBlack
    LuffyBlack Member Posts: 595

    I remember that and it was one of the best moves they have ever pulled. It drew in plenty of players and for the most part of they were willing to stay on board. Dead by Daylight has its flaws but "won't last the year"? What? Have you that little faith in the game? It out lasted most asymmetrical horror games out there. I fail to see how heading in the direction of free to play would tank the game, I'd need to see some sources.

    Yes, people will still buy skins. Fortnite is free and people are buying skins left and right. I give Fortnite less ######### because the game is free despite my own misgivings I explained earlier. And yes, I know you don't want to hear it but yes there are strong pay to win elements in the DLC. Most crucial perks are locked behind pay walls. There's an option to earn the costumes, the perks, and the characters but it's behind a tedious grind that will take the time of a second full time job. All by design to have you part from your wallet just like a mobile phone game.

    Whether you personally love the rift or not is irrelevant. My criticism shouldn't take away your enjoyment from this game, but I do challenge you to think critically about the products you consume. Unless your time is worthless then it's not free. Macote might as well put me on the clock at this point.

    If companies that sell alcoholic beverages had predatory ads? You bet your ass I would. I'm pro consumer. And yes, most marketing is scummy I know people that work in marketing and I do contracting work for a pretty major tech company. Just because something is normalized doesn't make it correct. When we grow complacent then things get worse. I have to say I find your attitude to be pretty disgusting. That being said, I'm not exactly a fan of Capitalism. You'd be barking up the wrong tree.

    The bugs and glitches are pretty bad, they're worse for console. I have this game for PC and Switch. Consoles are a nightmare to play this on, they still haven't done anything with the optimization.

    That's unfortunate my friend cause they already had. They have been selling us solutions to problems they themselves cause like most companies do.