do you think OoO is ok?

That's a fair point, especially for maps with limited RNG in their layouts, and with verticality such that things like a TR and Spine Chill aren't quite as useful. Still, though, if you're playing at a high level, how often does your squad really not know where the killer is to the point where OoO would actually provide information strong enough to consider the perk broken? That's gotta be pretty uncommon after the first chase starts. I tend to play with pretty casual SWF buddies and we still have a good idea of where the killer is for most of the match.

If the killer has high mobility and exceptionally strong 1v1, like Spirit or Nurse, it's risky to show your aura. If the killer has stealth, it's actively detrimental to run OoO. If the killer is running a snowballing build, like an Oni or Plague might, it's also pretty useless to run OoO because for the most part they're only going to be triggering their power when they know where survivors are and vice versa. For Trapper though, I agree, it's pretty devastating.

On the whole I see it as a high-risk, high-reward option even in a strong, four-man squad. You need to get lucky on the map and on the killer for it to come in handy, and even then, if the killer is a strong player they could certainly just use it to find you and camp you out of the game. If your squad is smart they'll rush gens and the killer won't get more than two kills, but you're also unlikely to keep running that perk that repeatedly gets you camped on the hook. In practice I find that the object usually isn't great at looping, their squad clearly isn't communicating effectively enough for me to struggle to find and down survivors, and in the rare event that the object is a great player and I decide to camp them, the team usually just feeds me free pressure instead of rushing gens.

Edit: And the other piece to keep in mind is that it's pretty detrimental if the killer generates pressure and the object needs to come relieve it. They either need to deny themselves visibility on a lot of the map while putting themselves into a dangerous position, or they risk showing the killer their location while some of their teammates are incapacitated.

I don't think the issue is Object, per se. I think the issue is comms and the game not being balanced with the expectation that the survivors are using them. That's kind of a Forever Issue with DBD.

I also think there's a secondary issue with Object in that the people who tend to run it are people who WANT the killer to see them constantly, and those people tend to be trolly. Again, not a problem with the perk on its own -- but a pattern in how it gets used.

So, I can see how, from a developer's POV, if you're just running the stats, it would look like it's balanced and fine. But, from a player's POV, every time someone has Object, you have one of the worst, most annoying matches of the day.

Alert is the better solo perk, but the issue is the permanent vision in groups.

Due to the maps layout, the obsession can infinitely run away from you and you can never catch up to them as you cannot cut them off and due to the 2 staircases and 1 secret passage the map contains, its almost impossible to catch up to them without losing every generator

It should be banned in SWF and not work on stealth moded killers.

It's the most overpowered perk in the game on both sides. It offers huge utility (that I and many others touched upon in the other thread) and potential and has little to no counter play.

The only real counter play is blindness that outside of object and slugging builds is almost useless!

OoO only OP is a SWF of 3 or more that are well organized.

A team with poor communication renders OoO obsolete, even in a 4-Man SWF.

Unfortunately, the game’s been out too long, there’s far too many media videos and “how-to” content that literally leaves nothing you can’t learn about the game from actual gameplay. This of course, leading to my premature opinion that the majority of teams using it will be quite effective with it.

For soloQ, balanced perfectly.

And how exactly do you propose they "fix" SWFs? Force the game to close if your mic gets activated? Stop people from playing on teams?

Doesn't it make more sense to nerf the perk that gives teams unlimited map info, than to try to find some way to stop people from using mics on teams? Honestly, killers should just get a speed buff or something if they queue into a swf, or at least some bonus bloodpoints. But that's really besides the point I'm trying to make.

How would you fix SWF, and how would that be easier than just making OoO less obnoxious?

That's really not true, for two reasons. First, most of the time you do know exactly where the killer is, even if you don't see them every step of the way. For example, let's say you get hooked and the killer beelines towards a gen across the map where a teammate is. Do you see the killer walk all of the way there? No. Is it very likely that they have BBQ and will continue to beeline towards the gen? Yes. Second, running OoO still doesn't necessarily mean your teammates will have as precise information as you do. Let's say you're playing on Lery's. Are you going to be able to call out which room the killer is in just based on their aura? No, almost certainly not. Even if you've developed a convention with your team such that you know which sides of the map are the top and bottom, the best you'll be able to do is say, "he's in the middle about 1/4 of the way to the top", or something of that nature. That's not a whole lot better than what you'd get just by paying attention to your TR, using your eyes, and using any other tracking perks.

In theory it can be used to make your teammates loop gods, but not really in practice. I'm a red rank killer, which is relevant, because matchmaking is rank-based. I have literally never had a game with an OoO watching me the whole way through my chases and with teammates that were unreasonably good at predicting my mindgames. There are only a minority of loops where that's ever going to be helpful, because the survivor needs time to react to the callout, and only if the killer is moving in a very predictable way. If all they ever to is walk backwards or turn around, sure. What if they start to walk backwards like a classic moonwalk, then reverse and moonwalk the other way? That move often gets hits within a second or two on decent players - they double back when you show the red stain around the corner and then it goes away because they assume you're moonwalking, and then they end up running right into you. If you called out the original moonwalk, they'd run right back into me by the time you had time to call out the second... you get the idea. You could probably bully some killers with no anti-looping power who try to mindgame bigger loops, but in general, good luck with that.

If the object is able to win their 1v1 with the killer and waste a massive amount of time, props to them. In a fair matchmaking system, though, that should not happen much, and against many killers it's not happening unless the matchmaking is really busted. Like, good luck running a killer like Spirit, Nurse, or Clown for long enough to save time for your team. The best you can hope for is to bait the killer into chasing you away from the gens they're defending, but if you're far away from the gens they also don't need to bother with you.

Against stealth killers this perk is straight up garbage. You get to see maybe what third of the map the killer is on, which is not particularly useful information, and in return they get to see your aura, which is very useful for a killer with no TR. Especially against a killer like Ghost Face that has pretty much perfect stealth, you're pretty much just going to get destroyed. You won't know if they're 10m away or 72m away until they walk around the corner. If stealth killers are bad in the chase, and OoO makes it easy for them to hit you for free, you would get way more utility out of something like Spine Chill, or Sprint Burst, or really anything that can help prevent you from taking that first hit.

This perk does destroy Trapper, agreed. This perk does not destroy Freddy or Hag. Freddy's snares make mindgames irrelevant at loops. In other words, even if you have actual wall hacks on him while you're looping, he can still rapidly shut down tiles with his snares and force you to leave them. Unless this is one of the first chases of the game and you get a really favorable match seed, you're probably not going to be able to consistently move from safe tile to safe tile. He's going to force you out of a loop, there's going to be no next loop close enough, and you're going to take a hit. Meanwhile, Hag just sets traps far too frequently and they're way too hard to see and then safely disarm for you to be able to damage her web faster than she can repair it without taking free hits and while still doing gens. Even if you have four flashlights and an OoO, by the time you communicate and destroy the one trap she'll have set three more. You also very likely won't know exactly enough where they are to communicate the location to teammates in the area if you're relatively far away. You'll be able to say, "she put a few traps near the corner jungle gym", but you won't be able to communicate them precisely enough for your teammates to find them and just barely trigger them to avoid a free hit.

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This perk is extremely rare at red rank, four-man SWF or no four-man SWF. The question I have is "If this perk is just stupid OP, why is it so rare? Why has it not become meta?" For every one SWF with an object, you'll have like 20 with the normal Dead Harb/SB, UB, DS, BT/Adrenaline. I think the answer is a combination of things. 1) It doesn't provide nearly as much meaningful information as people say it does, especially when you factor in not being able to scan your surroundings when you don't want the killer to see your aura and 2) It is not fun to use, because it gets you tunneled / makes some killers salty, it's actively detrimental against stealth killers, it's weak against highly mobile killers with strong 1v1 (e.g. Spirit, Nurse), it's weak or even detrimental when the killer has built up pressure and the object is forced to come help relieve it, it forces you to be too careful about where you look during the match, and it generally forces you to sweat your balls off to even try to get good use out of it.

If when MMR comes back OoO enters the ultra-high MMR meta, I'll eat my words. As it stands now, though, it feels more like a noob stomper or "I think I'm better than you" perk than something that's consistently useful. You can tilt baby killers, who will mindlessly chase you for a few gens, and then if and when they give up you can just torment them with it for the rest of the match. Good killers will be able to better exploit the information they're getting back from you, and will be strong enough in the chase that the main issue is not knowing where they are: it's figuring out how to prolong chases. If they want you out of the game, you will be out of the game, and your SWF mates are less likely to just rush gens if the killer is camping you because SWFs are usually way too altruistic. That's more fun, after all.

Oh yeah, no I 100% agree with you on Midwich. It can take way too long to get to the object, and two-story maps make tracking the killer based on TR, Spine Chill, Premonition, etc. way harder, so the information is a lot more valuable. The only killers that wouldn't be too bothered would be Nurse, because she can get upstairs quickly, and Doctor, because typical Doctor builds would make his TR cover basically the whole map. Maybe Hag too, just because she's an absolute menace on that map and I don't think Object is enough to slow her down :D

Otzdarva did an entire video about it. He's godly as Killer. If even HE hates OoO, maybe we should all take note.

I agree the ceiling is very high for OoO, but the floor is also low and the risk of running it is high. In order to get close to the ceiling you would basically need to be in a very solid four-man SWF with insane teamwork and detailed callouts for every location on the map and every action a killer could perform. I just don't see any evidence that teams are doing that, which isn't surprising given that this game has no real competitive scene.

I still disagree that you can shut down a Hag or Freddy of a comparable skill with OoO. If Freddy can be like a clown at loops against OoO, that's good for him! Clown can do well in the 1v1 without much need for mind games or deception, and Freddy has a whole lot in his kit to supplement that. For Hag, I just don't think it's feasible to call out trap locations precisely enough from like 50+m away for teammates to safely find and trigger them, and that's if there is a teammate close enough by to trigger the trap without wasting lots of time that wouldn't have already seen the Hag place it. I've played a decent amount of Hag as well, and I've never run into a squad that could manage to destroy my web faster than I could repair it while not taking free hits and while also doing gens.

I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.