Undying + Ruin is very engaging
I'm glad that this very smart and well designed combo is in the game. How would killers function without it??? I assume they would have to actually play the game like survivors.
Maybe we should invent a perk that's let's survivors sabo hooks from anywhere on the map until that specific tool box is out. I mean fair is fair right. But they should also make it so that the aura of the killer is seen by everyone when they close to a survivor. Because what if the killer actually tries to get rid of the toolbox? Well we cant have that. So when that toolbox is out another survivor automatically gets it.
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Undying + Ruin is good game play. It gives you secondary objectives and does nothing unless the killer can play well and pressure the entire board. Not to mention it's costing him 2 perk slots.
Like literally, where's the issue with the perks? Elaborate.
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If you think Ruin is difficult NOW you should have been here when Ruin actually forced you to hit great skill checks.
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I think it just needs to lose the aura reading. Give that to TotH and I'd be satisfied.
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Someone's mad.
I have had no problems since undying came into the game. I was already cleansing totems before then. Ruin is pretty weak. If the Killer is keeping you from doing 1 gen, that means everyone else is free to power through gens as if ruin wasn't even in play. Plenty of games where my team powered through all 5 gens before we could even break the Ruin totem.
And remember if its a 1v4. If the killer drops chase to go to someone he can see on a totem, he's just ######### wasting his time.
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God that's weird to read. Makes it seem like it hasn't been that way for years, but it's very recent....
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Avoid the the 3 gen and it becomes very hard for the killer. And RuIn-Undying isn't as good on the 4.4s and M1s. Although it can be difficult to deal with good mobility killers like Billy, Nurse, Freddy, Oni, and Blight.
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What's your perk builds?
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It's not but that's not the point of this post.
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Ruin + Undying is actually more engagging than DS + Unbreakable.
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I don't remember how long ago it was but it's got some age to it. My point still stands. If OP thinks Ruin+Undying is powerful can you imagine Undying and old ruin?
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Tbh I don't really mind the ruin + undying combo, at least it feels there is something else to do than only gens. I kinda like the fact that it forces us to do some bones.
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Ruin + undying + tunneling spirit/deathslinger/pyramidhead who camps better players with mori sure makes the game awesome!!! I love it, when I get 10k bloodpoints after a match like this, a time well spent!!!
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the perks themselves arent an issue.
the combo of Ruin + Undying itself is also not an issue (besides the face that it creates an RNG based secondary objective and i personally despise anything that is RNG based, but thats a personal issue i have with it)
however, it gets problematic when this combo is used together with Tinkerer on a high mobility Killer, such as the Blight.
it is then that it gets way too oppressive for survivors and it singlehandedly wins killers a game. all the killer needs to do is showing some map awareness and its basically a GG - you cant do gens, as they would rush to them immediately when tinkerer triggers and you cant do totems, as they would rush to them immediately when your aura is revealed to them - not an issue on normal killers, but high mobility killers always have the ability to get to you before you can finish the action, getting a free chase AND resetting your objective all at once.
granted, coordinated groups can beat this by, well, coordinating their actions, forcing the killer to choose what totem to protect and which to let go for example, but for any solo player this becomes extremely hard to deal with.
my suggestion would be to remove the aura reveal of Undying (or at the VERY least, limiting it to Hex totems ONLY). there is no reason why it should be on this perk, as it has nothing to do with what the perk was made for (respawning other Hexes) and it just ends up making the perk too good imho.
this wouldnt fix my problem with the RNG based secondary objective, but it would help a lot making this combo a lot less oppressive than it currently is, by actually giving survivors a chance to deal with the totems without trading like 5 hooks for them.
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I actually agree taking away aura reading away because it overshadows Retribution and TOFH and it's a little much.
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They'd prolly just use corrupt and pop
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"it is then that it gets way too oppressive for survivors and it singlehandedly wins killers a game. all the killer needs to do is showing some map awareness and its basically a GG - you cant do gens"
This isn't true even remotely. I deal with it regularly, easily.
"as they would rush to them immediately when tinkerer triggers and you cant do totems, as they would rush to them immediately when your aura is revealed to them - not an issue on normal killers, but high mobility killers always have the ability to get to you before you can finish the action, getting a free chase AND resetting your objective all at once."
If he's rushing back and forth like that he shouldn't be getting hits on you or you are misplaying hard. As soon as he leaves you get back on, he comes back, then the other guys get back on. Even with a high mobility killer like Blight that is a losing exchange for him.
"granted, coordinated groups can beat this by, well, coordinating their actions, forcing the killer to choose what totem to protect and which to let go for example, but for any solo player this becomes extremely hard to deal with."
This isn't a problem with solo queue, the problem you are pointing out is just bad players that aren't pressuring multiple objectives at once. That doesn't require coordination to work on a different objective than the rest your team.
"my suggestion would be to remove the aura reveal of Undying (or at the VERY least, limiting it to Hex totems ONLY). there is no reason why it should be on this perk, as it has nothing to do with what the perk was made for (respawning other Hexes) and it just ends up making the perk too good imho."
Why does it need to be removed? It isn't oppressive at all and has lots of counter play.
"but it would help a lot making this combo a lot less oppressive than it currently is, by actually giving survivors a chance to deal with the totems without trading like 5 hooks for them."
It is a 4v1. He can't be in 4 places at once even on the highest mobility killers, so unless you are going down sub 10 seconds he isn't even getting a hit without committing enough time to lose one of the objectives. If he keeps coming back to the totem every time that is losing him the game. You are are forcing him to waste all his time there while everyone else is sitting on gens or removing the other totems/hexes.
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That's less the perks and more people playing like jerks which trust me I know the pain. PH with Noed and ebony.
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If Undying had no aura reading then it would be completely useless on its own. All perks have to have at least something that they can do on their own. Even Thrill of the Hunt for instance on its own makes all cleansing take longer and gives you a bloodpoint bonus. But Undying by itself only has the aura reading, nothing else. Take that away and it's a useless perk on its own.
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But killer mains say that it's balanced(?!)
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This just highlight the underlieing problem even more: The imbalance between SWF and solo-queue. That is the real balance issue, not Ruin + Undying.
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That illustrates just how bad those 2 perks are, not that Undying needs its aura reading removed. Retribution and TOTH just need buffs.
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People here clearly don't play with randoms, saying this it's just easy to deal with the combo.
It's mostly unbearable to play solo, and against this, there's basically nothing you can do (but I guess that's what killers want, right? hope they get full red ranks swf one after another to experience the same frustration). Undying needs to lose its aura reading.
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Imagine the old ruin with undaying, =rekt
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Oh I play both sides Ruin Undying is annoying but it's manageable. Ebony moris though they can go.
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I play strictly solo queue and we manage fine. Many times we even finish all gens with ruin still up. So why isn't it a problem in my solo queue games?
There is plenty of counter play to this combo so where's the issue?
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I assume they'd actually have to play the game like survivors.
lol
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Some people are unlucky in solo que some times you get the pro looping Nea the other times you get the locker Dwight. The other person must get the locker Dwight.
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To me that illustrates the problems with the ranking/pip system putting people of unequal skill together, not a problem with these 2 perks.
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Yeah that's the fault of ranking not the perks. There'd be a lot less complaints on killer perks if ranking was consistent.
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More engaging than small pp dead soul hard, that's for sure.
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Tinker + Ruin + Undying = must have for each and every sweatlord wanting an easy-mode button
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That's more for the mobility killers to toss on tinkerer unless you actually get hags who try and make the distance I'd believe it I've seen it.
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Guess someone here has the luck I clearly don't.
Just today, I played dbd for about 3 hours and every single game there was at least 1 survivor who wouldn't do anything (just crouching somewhere even when kindred was on and the killer clearly was on the other side of the map), would sandbag, farm hooks on after the other. And we've been against high mobility killers every single time the combo was played.
If my random teammates were helping, I'd agree with you... but guess I'm not lucky enough to have that.
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it just to much. Its RNG depended. Which means in worst case (and this happens much more than you will admit) u have to cleanse 4 hex totems to get rid of ruin. Good luck doing that on one of the newest maps with INSANE hidden totems like hawkins, or generally any other indoor map. And then throw in tinkerer and high mobility and its gg
for reference. I have been using tinkerer, surveillence, ruin and undying and I havent lost A SINGLE match since 3 weeks. This is pure easy mode. Sure, I was already winning 90% of my games previously with good old pop. but now? its 100%. not a single team has beaten me and I dare anyone to challenge me.
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Undying just does too much IMO. Resetting hexes is already a strong effect, but the aura reading is kind of ridiculous, especially on indoor maps. You get frequent survivor wallhacks and the survivors have to be really lucky to find Undying early on a map like Hawkins.
I think keeping the aura reading on hexes but removing it for dull totems would be fair. It keeps the perk strong and useful for keeping hexes up, but tones it down a little so it’s not quite as oppressive. Plus it encourages survivors to “do bones” which is what people are always saying they want, right?
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If it's that common then throw on one of the totem perks like Small Game. Where's the issue with that?
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Have you tossed on Detectives or Small game. Run one of them with Inner and you can get a build going.
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no place for small game, need other perks to carry my potatoe team by getting chased as much as possible. Because if you dont know, solo Q is an absolute desaster u have to always carry as MVP. and EVEN IF I would slap in small game, thats ME not being on gens for 4 totems. thats a loss. 100%. u cant 3v1 a killer on 5 gens. because the guy on totems is not really playing the game towards the objective.
for reference. I have been using tinkerer, surveillence, ruin and undying and I havent lost A SINGLE match since 3 weeks. This is pure easy mode. Sure, I was already winning 90% of my games previously with good old pop. but now? its 100%. not a single team has beaten me and I dare anyone to challenge me.
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What's your usual build?
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sadly most of your counter arguments boild down to "just have a good team" - which is a rarity in solo queue.
you got a point with a lot of these. yeah, he cant be at multiple places at the same time. but that would actually require my team to do the objective in the first place, not sit in a corner, selfcaring and then urban evading for the next 50 seconds until they even think about going somewhere near a gen / totem, just to be scared off immediately once the slightest sign of a heartbeat is present in the distance.
thats why i said this was problematic for solo queue, because thats usually the main issue with it: potatoe team mates. thats what everyone complains about with it, thats what makes it so unreliable and so annoying to play. the fact that your team mates usually barely scratch the 500 ingame hours and get themselves / you killed over and over again.
in a group of players you know are playing well together / you have on comms this combo is a lot less problematic, exaxtly because these tactics you gave me earlier work.
so, why should the aura reading be removed?
lets look at the perk design for that. The perk was designed to allow other Hex perks that have been destroyed to be transferred to a Dull Totem, should one be available at the time.
the whole point of the perk is to protect a different Hex perk after its destruction.
its a lot like TOTH in that regard - its not ment to be good on itself, its ment to be good when combined with other perks, such as Ruin. speaking of which, isnt it funny how Undying, the perk that should protect a Hex after its destruction, renders TOTH, the perk that should protect a Hex from being destroyed in the first place, completely useless, by basically giving you that perks effect of alerting you when someone touches your totems as a sideeffect not only for free, but a superior version of it?
TOTH is restriced to: 1) a noise notification / location reveal only 2) only revealing someone who is actively touching a totem and 3) only revealing those who touch Hex totems.
Undying does the same, with less downsides - 1) it gives a direct aura reveal, so it not only tells you which totem is being touched, but you can also track the survivor, should they try to sneak away. 2) the survivor doesnt even need to be touching the totem in the first place, he doesnt even have to know about the totem and they still get revealed. 3) it gives the aura of any survivor near any totem with no restrictions.
why would anyone ever equip TOTH, when the current version of Undying exists? its simple, they wont.
so lets come back to the main question: why is Undying, the perk that is supposed to protect a Hex after its destruction also the main powerhouse when it comes to not letting a Hex being destroyed in the first place? and why is it even protecting the totems that arent Hexes to begin with?
that makes no sense, thits not what its supposed to do. TOTH was designed to do this (and it also doesnt give away those working on Dulls btw).
now, lets see the "lots of counterplay" you were reffering to...
all i see here is eigther coordinated team work or equipping specific perks. correct me if i missed something, but none of that is reliable counterplay for a solo player such as me.
also, please refrain from using arguments like "just dont get hit" in the future.
i view you as an experienced enough player to know how ridiculous and weak that as an argument is.
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But would it still be a problem if ranking was actually consistent?
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I have no issue with this combo; I know how to counter it but the one thing I don't like is the effect it has on solo queue; it causes teammates not to even touch gens until Ruin is gone, which is very frustrating. That isn't an issue with the perk, though.
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Yeah, because the moment you equip Undying and Ruin you are just chilling in the corner while survivors are dying out of agony.
I can understand that it makes you angry that killers are refusing to play the game and are just abusing this combination to a point where the survivors are the only ones who actually understand the sense of the game.
With that being said: Devs, nerf gen slow down perks.
Killers don't need kills, they need to get gen rushed to teach them a lesson because they don't want to play the game how it's supposed to be.
Winning is not an option.
Post edited by Chechia on0 -
Ruin and undying is not okay and is much stronger than ds + unbreakable imo, but ok
Detectives hunch is not a counter to ruin and undying cause u NEED to finish one gen first (which with this combo is already hard if the killer is half competent and knows how to pressure gens, or has tinkerer), u need to pay attention to the totems localizations and not be chased.
Small game could be a good perk against this, but it still sucks, (and so does detectives hunch) because the counter to this build as a direct counter to it, which makes no sense. Undying saves ur ruin and gives u free aura reading, even on doll totems, EVEN if the survivors are not doing them, u see the aura if they walk past one, wow
Each totem takes 14 seconds to do, and, with ruin + undying, if u get truly lucky u have to waste at least 28 seconds doing both + some other seconds which is the time it takes u to find them, this of course, if u don’t get interrupted.
And no, tinkerer doesn’t work only on good mobility killers, not anymore, and with ruin, it doesnt matter if u get to the gen at 95%, because, as long as u get there, it’s fine, u won’t lose the gen.
I believe that the best strat against this is just gen rush, sit on different gens and hold m1 till u can’t anymore, or, hard stealth until u get rid of a couple of bones (but the aura reading being a thing, u might get caught doing so), also don’t forget to do doll totems if u get across some of them i guess.
Anyway, if u think this combo is okay throw it on clown and see how much wins in a row u can get
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I still want old ruin back and I'm a survivor main lol. It meant that survivors were at least decent at red ranks. Now they're all potatoes.
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To be completely honest it's the Aura reading that I actually hate. It takes all the counterplay away. You cant do any kind of totem without the killer having all this information for no reason.
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There are so many things wrong with this game on both ends that I don't even know if sides are worth taking. I think we can all agree that, one way or another, this game is functional, but borderline broken about half the time. It doesn't take more than 1 - 5 games as both roles to run into many stupid bugs that have plagued (hee) DBD for ages. Perk combinations should be the least of our worries imo, but I can see why someone would find undying/ruin frustrating (esp in solo queue).
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The only issue I have with undying is the aura reading, but that has to do more with how totems spawn within loops than the perk itself.
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I hope undying gets a nerf this is coming from a killer main myself. I'm tired oh having to go against it ever time I get in a game I played 10games today as survivor 8/10 had that ruin undying combo it's just as bad as the small peeepeee ds and unbreakable combo.
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Maybe it is broken as well who knows but that's not the point of this post. Stop trying to divert the conversation.
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