Dead Hard is a perk that gives too much value.

No, perks are supposed to have a cost, downside, requirement etc per the devs own words.

Not to mention you're talking about one of the strongest perks in the game having none of those. I could at least see your argument if it was a mediocre effect as that would have some balancing in tow.

The times Resilience is saving you is mostly in your head. It can make a difference, but it is extremely minute and more placebo than anything.

No, Resilience was never meta at all.

Botany Knowledge isn't getting its full effect without using a medkit and you're deciding to spend gen time on healing.

Note that I said the criteria that the devs stated they want to get the perks to. I did not say that all perks currently fit that criteria.

I think the devs were referring to having that criteria for stronger effects, not necessarily all perks in general. IE Bond would probably fit this criteria. However a second chance like Dead Hard clearly fits the top standard for this.

All these "top tier" survivors say it's amazing because it's bad? Noob3 ran it, and after that video I saw it so many times in my games. I can literally tell when a survivor is running it when I am the killer because they go through the windows so fast.

And if you are telling me botany knowledge has a downside because you have to heal people, I don't know what to say. It's a core action in DBD buffed by a perk. There is no downside to that.

The difference is, the perk is typically used in a chase right? So all you do is loop normally, then when you inevitably get hit, now you have a dead hard. It's not like you have to go out of your to be injured at the start of a chase. You just use it normally as a chase progresses. Typically a killer will eventually hit you, it's just a matter of when. And the problem is that, unlike the other exhaustion perks, it restarts a chase and give you essentially an "extra life", You have to win 3 chases now instead of just 2 to down the survivor.

Well let's agree to disagree then. I think the vault build is crazy strong in the hands of a good player. I equate it to going into a game with light amour. You will be super hard to catch, but easy to kill once you go down. Where-as running the BT/DS/Unbreakable/DH combo is like going in with heavy amour. Easier to catch, but hard to actually kill off.

"Top tier players don't heal" and they only get away with that against bad killers. People who don't heal in my games usually die fast when I am the killer. Not healing against me when I am playing a killer like spirit / hag / wraith / ghostface / etc is a death sentence. You can try to get away with it if you want, at your own risk.

I play against the teams that played in Hexy's tournament on a regular basis. I've beaten pretty much every popular streamer on the NA servers. So if those are not top tier, I don't what is.

The guy hasn't even seen the video and is assuming they are meming. I would much rather not argue with such an ignorant person if I were you (they are like flat earthers when they prove earth is round but then proceed to say it is flat).

I am just fundamentally against the idea of each survivor having access to a literal invincibility button in a 4v1 game like this, and a horror-themed one no less. You literally cannot be hit during the animation, even if standing perfectly still. It's both powerful and versatile.

I consider it one of the most irritating perks in the game. Irritating doesn't equate to power, by the way, but my lord it can be infuriating when you're in a position where you have no choice but to swing since you don't have time to bait it out.

I feel like compared to 95% of other survivor perks, it gives you so much, and requires so little. You don't gain as much distance as sprint burst, but you don't have to walk everywhere and in exchange for more distance you instead literally cannot be hit, and can phase through the killer for some reason, which can be clutch, especially if it's a killer that relies on a charge-type power in chases like Billy or Blight. It doesn't require building stacks like Mettle of Man, which after so many protection hits, you basically get a Borrowed Time where you still have to mend. A build phase, and still a downside if hit. The exhaustion meter doesn't mean much if you're only running one exhaustion perk, it's essentially just a cooldown for your next invincibility dodge at that point. Again, if you want another BT hit from Mettle of Man, you don't wait for a meter, you go get those protection hits.

And being injured is not a "downside" to a perk that's literally only used in chases. Resilience gives you a benefit while repairing gens and such. Yeah you vault slightly faster, so there's that I guess, but that repair speed is a primary reason to run it. But repairing while injured can be really dangerous. Being injured in a chase... means you're playing DBD. It's so silly.

Saying that its "not always the case" is not the argument. It is also "not always the case" with other exhaustion perks. The point is though, in optimal play, which is what we are talking about. You know, the people who are good at this game with 1k+ hours? The perk is extremely frustrating to play against when compared to other exhaustion perks. It is poor design, similar to the old ruin. It was extremely frustrating. And saying you have to be injured to use it, is not a downside. This meta of gen rushing half the time people don't even heal and just slam the gens, because you can.

A survivor can literally hold w, not loop, do nothing but hold w for both hits, and it'll take the killer a solid 30 seconds to down you. Adding in looping plus an extra dead hard is too much as it is.

They could do it a few different ways.

One way is giving the Exhausted debuff a negative. Something hypothetical like louder breathing while Exhausted.

Another route is not touching them at all and simply adding more counter play. IE more killers having Exhaustion addons or new Exhaustion causing perks/improving the current ones we have to be actually decent.

I wouldn't take either of these routes literally, but more as a general concept of the point I'm trying to make. In essence both these ideas would be looking to add potential risk or downside to running an Exhaustion perk. When you're picking your perks running an Exhaustion one would be a consideration where you're weighing the pros and cons or deciding if the possible downsides worked with your build. Currently there is zero reason you would ever not run an Exhaustion perk if you were wanting to actually win. To me that is a sign of flawed design if there is no decision to be made and it's just an auto pick.

I'm also not necessarily saying all perks need downsides or negatives. I think it's more of a sliding scale.

Some perks are very situational, so they rightfully so need to be very strong in the situation they do arise. While other perks are not situational at all, happening many times a game and consistently, which is why these perks need their effects to be much weaker.

In this same sense, most the second chance perks (or Exhaustion ones for this conversation specifically) are some of the strongest effects in the game while simultaneously being not situational at all and happening many times every single game consistently. So you can see why this is a mismatch with the balancing philosophy I posted above. Since they completely ignore the balancing and just get the best of both sides they need some sort of checks and balances such as downsides or requirements.

IE we need downsides or negatives specifically for perks that are overly tipping the scales of balance compared to the rest of the pool to even them out and not that all perks just in general need these criteria.

As Killer, I've seen survivors running in middle of emptiness, tried DH in hope I swing and miss. But I just didnt get the bait and down them.

But I also have seen survivors manage distance so good that only DH at the final moment into other side of pallet, after loops me for 5-6 rounds.

Awww poor baby.. boo hoo😭