Dead Hard is a perk that gives too much value.
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Dead hard has literally no counters when used for distance. None. The only thing you can attempt is to go around the other side, but even that will only work on bad loops. If you don’t agree with this, you don’t understand the perk.
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It is by far the most common perk I see used by survivors. 7 out of 10 times, it is very very easy to spot when someone will use it and as the killer, you can just alter you play to negate the extra boost it gives. The other 3 out of 10 times, it does let them get away, but I see it fail a LOT more then I see it succeed.
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For example:
Nurse is clearly the best killer in the game, by far. She is hard to play, but a good nurse can just destroy survivors. As a nurse main, I believe she is OP. However, the latest stats that BHVR showed us, shows that nurse has the lowest kill rate by far. she is actually below a 50% kill rate with the next killer being above 60% i believe. This is because she is extremely difficult to play.
However, i feel she needs a nerf (realistically an entire rework) because she is OP. If we go by the logic the people on this forum like to say about how "we shouldn't be balanced around SWF kill squads with 5k hours because that's not the average player and they are rare" then that means we should be buffing nurse so her kill rate increases. When obviously doing so would be make her even more broken.
You balance around the highest capabilities of what a thing can do, not the average. If there is a clear problem where something is really hard to use but is balanced for the people who know how to use it, that sounds like a poor design that needs to be reworked rather than buffed or nerfed.
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Downsides to dead head are:
1) you have to be injured to use it, other exhaustion perks can be used at anytime while healthy.
2) 99% of the time I am exhausted on the floor.
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Difference is that none of exhaustion perks (with an expection of balanced landing, yet it's debatable) DIRECTLY ELIMINATE a mistake survivor has made in chase. Dead hard basically gives survivor a third health state for zero downsides. It always wastes a lot of resources just to bait DH out - keep a chase to the point where you were supposed to end it - hit that survivor, only to see them press a button and say "no you didn't".
Even Sprint burst that allows survivor to sit in deadzones safely has downsides of having to walk and not working in chase. Killer also doesn't have to win the chase against that survivor to bait the perk out, only approaching the survivor is enough to make them spend their SB.
Lithe simply increases distance survivor gains after vaulting the window.
Basically, 150% perks can be split up 3 categories - Ones that give extra advantage on top of the one you've already earned (vault a window and gain extra distance - lithe), ones that make certain zones not 100% death - Sprint burst that allows survivor to stay far from pallets and windows and Balanced landing that allows to go on hills while being chased and consider high drops as an escape route and the ones that simply cancel you mistake - Dead Hard. Press a button to ignore your mistake. Got mindgamed? Press a button to cancel this and still get to the pallet. Got greedy and made an extra turn? Press a button.
Dead Hard for distance is bullshit.
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Dead Hard used for distance has no counters? Is that really true or are you exaggerating? I'm a survivor main so I'm open to the idea that I'm bias but can you provide an example of no counter.
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Dead Hard is fine. Don't complain about something outclassed by Sprint Burst.
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It doesn't give me too much value when I'm exhausted on the ground four times a game. I've actually stopped using it because of how rarely it works.
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Dead hard is not only easily counterable by just knowing it exists, but also very underwhelming in its actual effect.
Sprint burst can be held, has more distance, and can be used injured/healthy, preventing you from even needing to be hit in the first place.
The only reason I pick dead hard over sprint burst is it's activatable whenever I please. I like having control, and not having to wait
The only reason dead hard can feel opressive, is because it's usually used when otherwise someone would of gotten a hit. The survivor, only has i - frames for the start of the dead hard. And can't enter a vault or throw a pallet at the very end of it. A perfect dead hard, is much like someone holding their sprint burst and using it effectively.
Learn to outplay dead hard, and get them to use it at improper angles, and to fake it out. Assume every survivor has it unless proven otherwise (knowing what perks they've used, and if they have other exhaustion perks.)
If your also playing certain killers (Huntress, demo, wraith, ghostface, deathslinger, pyramid head and a few others probably not coming to mind) you can very easily bait out a dead hard by lining up a shot with your power (or crouching as ghostface/cloaking as wraith due to same windup/sound) and make them use it early.
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Dead Hard's shining moment comes with it's use for basement escapes.
Unless you have Dead Hard ready, Borrowed Time from another survivor, Mettle of Man active, Decisive Strike and he picks you up, or a Styptic Agent...
...if that killer is at the top of the stairs and you're in the basement, you're dead trapped.
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Dude dead hard is useful..... When it works I've had games as killer and survivor where the dead hard just doesn't work like the exhaustion is there but you still get hit now if they only use it for distance then hey you can't do anything except mind game the pallet or wall or whatever but it is not an unbearable perk
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Dead hard for distance is the only way it’s usable, using it to dodge hits is very unreliable
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It is not an exaggeration. Situation: killer is chasing survivor who is running to a pallet or window. Normally, the killer would catch up, but with dead hard, the survivor is guaranteed to make the window/vault. Depending on the structure, this can easily add 30 seconds + to a chase. This isn’t even mentioning killers like Nurse and Huntress, who essentially have their power deleted and require them to catch the survivor 3 times in one chase (once to injure, once to take dead hard, once to down). If you are using it for invincibility, you are doing it wrong.
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Instadown killers
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I just hate that survivors can play a loop perfectly meaning there's nothing as a killer you can do but if they make one mistake then dh just fixes it. I'm alright with them using it to make it to places because then I still have a decision, mindgame etc. So I think they should make it less of second chance perk and more of a took to reach pallets. It shouldn't give invincibility imo
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Not when your playing myers, billy, oni, bubba or anybody with an instadown.
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Just do bones!
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A few situational instadowns doesn't invalidate the point.
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Too much value for the killers when you're exhausted on the ground.
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Well now I'm really curious. What changes to dead hard should be made to make it more fair without making it totally useless?
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I feel like instadown Killers don't really make Dead Hard worse.
Survivors become encouraged to avoid healing so that they can use Dead Hard to avoid the Killer's instadown/basic attacks after they're unhooked, Escape chase, or picked up.
The one situation where Dead Hard is meaningless is if you get instadowned and are left to die on hook by your teammates.
Otherwise you will always get potential value.
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As for the topic.
Personally, I don't really think that Dead Hard being consistently good is a bad thing. I think more perks should have near guaranteed value like Dead Hard or Whispers.
I'm not saying Dead Hard is totally fine - Dead Hard for distance is annoying and Dead Hard against Trapper, Huntress, Nurse, and Blight can be frustratingly strong - just saying that I'm not so sure that a perk being reliably good is problematic.
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i always laugh when i read this
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Haha are you people kidding? No downsides?? It doesnt work against a chunk of the killers who rely on oneshots, billy, leatherbilly, ghosface, onis power etc. Even if they are already injured, all the killer needs to do is run behind the surv and make them waste it. It is the most situational perk right after BL. Even with these dedicated servers and my avg 36 ping. Most of the time killer hits me during the deadhard, i get exhausted and then the game goes "wait no. You didnt DH" And removes the exhaustion.
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I do agree that DH is probably too strong when used properly, as the only counter to it (i.e to bait, or wait it out) becomes null and void.
Comparing it to the other exhaustion perks, DH is probably the one with the least consequence to using it.
SB requires you to walk and maintain it properly, or risk not having it when you need it.
Lithe is predictable and can be stopped/interrupted easier than any of the other perks.
BL is predictable and requires high-ground, which isn't on every map in the game.
DH.. doesn't really require anything, you could argue timing it is important, but for experienced survivors, this isn't that hard.
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I dont even heal vs nurses, and I still get the longest chases on my team. Not healing is the most optimal thing to do, and good loopers, like me, wont heal unless we NEED to, which normally we wont.
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U have to be injured to use it lmfao it's literally useless against any one shot killer and even if after u get them the first time and use it it's not really much value, I've never once had issues with dead hard and from personal statistics I'd say I'm either really lucky or 3/4s the people that use it can't use it right or get the good ol dbd treatment and it doesn't work like it should have. Either way complaining about dead hard seems pretty trivial compared to other very real problems this game has....
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I can totally see why it’s a high value perk, but honestly? Weird server inconsistencies have been rendering it useless for me recently and I don’t even run it anymore because of that. Maybe bhvr nerfed it in their own special way (dedicated servers 😭😭)
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Ruin undying has no cost or downside or requirement.
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If things were truly balanced around the highest capabilities in this game or should be as you say then pretty much every killer would be lowered to e tier level. You do realise pretty much everything can be strong in this game once you master it. Even the weakest of killers.
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You mean besides the fact that it requires two perk slots for the them to work, extremely high risk as you could have them removed immediately if you don't get lucky, has multiple counters, and does absolutely nothing unless the killer is really skilled at pressuring the survivors effectively?
Ruin/Undying is literally the epitome of the type of design where a cost/downside/requirement/skill component is taken into consideration.
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Problem with dead hard is that it allows you to undo killers mind game just by pressing a button, combine this with the fact that most survivors are running it, and they have it available in every chase. The perk simply gets too big advantages compared to the "drawback" that you have to be injured. Sprint burst has massive drawbacks because you need to walk around the map if you want to have it 24/7 while healthy, sure you can 99% it while running but then you cannot do anything productive while doing that, such as repairing gens, healing teammates which will once again send you walking if you want to keep the perk available. One simple fix to dead hard could be add broken feature that you cannot heal in 60 seconds if you use the perk, being injured is not really a drawback con cindering how strong it is
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when the perk would work yeah sure. why is a perk what works 3/10 times a big issue.
Sprint burst give you a even better value and actually works but nobody complains about it.
you can bait dead hard easily. dead hard isnt working against insta downs (billy, leatherface etc) SB is working whenever you want.
its hilarious that there are still killers who think DH is OP or too strong lol
you said nerf BL, you made it useless and nobody is running it. now dead hard ? and then Sprint burst? survivors shouldnt have anything lol
btw there also killer mechanics/perks what gives you a lot of value. you want me to list every single one?
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Rid of all of the survivor perks. Boom you wanna make it to a pallet and loop it well that’s too bad. If they can make it to a pallet with dead hard then kick the dam thing once it’s down then they’ll need to loop elsewhere. Is it really that difficult to do? You really do love complaining about easily countered perks this isn’t old dbd where you can recover from exhaustion while running as in they only have dead hard once every 40 seconds they ain’t running so it’s not that difficult to outplay
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same as nurse. Is nurse a balanced killer? No
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entitled survivor who never played killer detected
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Excellent analogy.
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