The question none of us are asking...
What exactly do the devs want DbD to be?
What do the devs want the ideal killer experience to be like?
What do the devs want the ideal survivor experience to be like?
Don't bother with the marketing buzzwords and just talk to us.
The devs have already taken ideas that the community had and sold them back to us in the form of perks (Coulrophobia, Spirit Fury, Hex: Haunted Ground), why won't they let us help them make core changes that will make the entire experience better for all players? Especially since it's the players, not the devs, who have the most experience playing DbD and are most familiar with its flaws.
DC's need to be dealt with more effectively.
Camping isn't fun for survivors.
Looping isn't fun for killers.
The ranking system needs to be better at ranking player skill.
Ranking and Devotion both need to have purpose.
The endgame and the hatch mechanic are too survivor sided.
The time crunch should be on the survivor's shoulders, not the killer's.
Survivors have too many second chance perks and items. Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, Deliverance, Unbreakable - to a lesser extent: Syringes, Borrowed Time, Self Care.
When combined with the time crunch issue, these advantages make killer gameplay more frustrating than "challenging" and survivor gameplay too easy (so I've read).
SWF advantages are too great for the original design of the game when combined with voice coms and newer perks designed to strengthen individual survivors.
Killers do not have enough "fun" ways to put pressure on survivors. Tunneling and slugging aren't fun for everyone...
Killers are deliberately designed to be weak.
Hexes.
We all know that the dev's balance decisions are not based on our needs as players, but rather their vision of what DbD should be. I'm curious as to what that vision is.
Maybe they'll actually implement changes we all want and that the game NEEDS.
Who asked for the Flashlight and Pallet Stun Changes during the Chinese New Year Event?
Certainly not the players...
Comments
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They are saying, they can't balance the game, because noobies will have problems, but currently noobies are getting the worst experience ever.
They better fix and balance the game and add a skill cap for both of the roles.
Especially for survivors.3 -
Everyone has literally been taking about all of these things. I see it all the time. Read the comments and you will be surprised.
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They want it to be a horror game but to do that they will piss off more than half the community by making the survivor experience scary cause after all its a horror game no matter how much people dont want to believe it.
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@Global said:
They want it to be a horror game but to do that they will piss off more than half the community by making the survivor experience scary cause after all its a horror game no matter how much people dont want to believe it.It would be horror if you wouldnt be able to rely on perks to survive or kill.
If you would actually be scared like playing against scratched mirror myers on lerys.0 -
My question remains, and it'd be interesting to hear a dev response when they get back to work or during a stream.
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I agree on everything you said.
Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!8 -
@Tsulan said:
I agree on everything you said.Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!You could oh i don't know run Hang mans Trick for the luls when people try and sabo your event hooks as well as nail them for doing so. I ran it on my Trapper as normal but also my Huntress for the daily she had and nailed jerks.
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@powerbats said:
@Tsulan said:
I agree on everything you said.Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!You could oh i don't know run Hang mans Trick for the luls when people try and sabo your event hooks as well as nail them for doing so. I ran it on my Trapper as normal but also my Huntress for the daily she had and nailed jerks.
That´s the "just break the pallet" answer to looping.
Event hooks will be a minority. Means, that the hook won´t be usually the closest hook you´ll see. Now the minimum distance between hooks is 24 meters. So the killer will just barely reach the event hook, only to get body blocked and/or the hook sabotaged. If he drops the survivor, because he has hangmans, then the survivor will break free. Even IF the survivor doesn´t break free, he won´t just stay where you drop him until the hook respawns.
Mark my words. Killers will have a terrible event.
3 -
Add an AI mode with tiered difficulty.
For both sides.
Problem solved.0 -
@Tsulan said:
@powerbats said:
@Tsulan said:
I agree on everything you said.Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!You could oh i don't know run Hang mans Trick for the luls when people try and sabo your event hooks as well as nail them for doing so. I ran it on my Trapper as normal but also my Huntress for the daily she had and nailed jerks.
That´s the "just break the pallet" answer to looping.
Event hooks will be a minority. Means, that the hook won´t be usually the closest hook you´ll see. Now the minimum distance between hooks is 24 meters. So the killer will just barely reach the event hook, only to get body blocked and/or the hook sabotaged. If he drops the survivor, because he has hangmans, then the survivor will break free. Even IF the survivor doesn´t break free, he won´t just stay where you drop him until the hook respawns.
Mark my words. Killers will have a terrible event.
This is going to sound harsh because it is but it's also logic and facts hopefully putting a stop to all this victim nonese.
In other words no one's going to put up offerings so the poor killers will only get 2 hooks, is that what you're saying? I mean good grief talk about drama and woe is me victimhood here, I mean it's not like there wasn't offerings galore the 1st week of the BBQ event. Most killers had their weapon within the 1st few days and after that were just farming bp.
There was also quite a few wouldn't put any up and instead make sure survivors couldn't do only the special event gens. Just because they didn't want survivors who'd put up offerings to help get them theirs couldn't get some for themselves.
if killers have a bad event mark my words, it's their own fault for not putting offerings out there plain and simple. Since if they don't want to put offerings out there then they don't deserve to get their special hooks plain and simple.
When I did the BBQ event I made sure to put up offerings every match on both sides even if I already had what i needed. I still did it to help others get their tokens since I knew not everyone would've gotten it and in fact I've still got offerings in my inventory on both sides.
If you or any other killer doesn't get it then you've got no one to blame but yourselves so stop trying to play the victim here.
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@powerbats said:
@Tsulan said:
I agree on everything you said.Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!You could oh i don't know run Hang mans Trick for the luls when people try and sabo your event hooks as well as nail them for doing so. I ran it on my Trapper as normal but also my Huntress for the daily she had and nailed jerks.
They already said during a dev stream that the new Sabo will add 60 seconds to Hangman's trick making us have to wait 70 seconds before we can use the hook.
Do you think that Survivors might sabo event hooks to troll killers trying to get as many of the cosmetics as they can before time runs out?
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I agree with the guy who's videos taught me how to play Hag. Not on everything. But most of it.
I've been asking myself this for the past few days "What do the devs want this game to be? and what do they want it to play like?"
Another question I've asked myself: "What's wrong with these generators that a guy just needs to go up to one with his bare hands and fix it? Is it just bad wiring?"
Survivors should have to get a few parts per generator. knock the number of gens to one per survivor. Keep the skill checks for putting them on (but for the entities sake add some variety to the check)
This would promote more map roaming by survivors without making them do stuff that isn't paramount to there survival (i hear them complain about clearing totems and chests for score) And slow the game down a bit in a natural way.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
We all know that the dev's balance decisions are not based on our needs as playersI always assumed they push out dlc that has perks to band aid solve problems killers have tbh. Hangman's Trick wasn't fitting that bill so they buff Sabo and add an unnecessary penalty to Hangman's Trick if sabo is used. If a killer is using Hangman's Trick that's already a big enough penalty because they have a perk slot dedicated to repairing hooks.
@SpaceCoconut said:
Do you think that Survivors might sabo event hooks to troll killers trying to get as many of the cosmetics as they can before time runs out?
They did in both events for me which is why in the second event I had ebony mori's stockpiled just for the event. I used an ebony every game until I got my event hooks because I didn't want to deal with BS. I'll be doing the same thing for this event.
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@powerbats said:
@Tsulan said:
@powerbats said:
@Tsulan said:
I agree on everything you said.Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!You could oh i don't know run Hang mans Trick for the luls when people try and sabo your event hooks as well as nail them for doing so. I ran it on my Trapper as normal but also my Huntress for the daily she had and nailed jerks.
That´s the "just break the pallet" answer to looping.
Event hooks will be a minority. Means, that the hook won´t be usually the closest hook you´ll see. Now the minimum distance between hooks is 24 meters. So the killer will just barely reach the event hook, only to get body blocked and/or the hook sabotaged. If he drops the survivor, because he has hangmans, then the survivor will break free. Even IF the survivor doesn´t break free, he won´t just stay where you drop him until the hook respawns.
Mark my words. Killers will have a terrible event.
This is going to sound harsh because it is but it's also logic and facts hopefully putting a stop to all this victim nonese.
In other words no one's going to put up offerings so the poor killers will only get 2 hooks, is that what you're saying? I mean good grief talk about drama and woe is me victimhood here, I mean it's not like there wasn't offerings galore the 1st week of the BBQ event. Most killers had their weapon within the 1st few days and after that were just farming bp.
There was also quite a few wouldn't put any up and instead make sure survivors couldn't do only the special event gens. Just because they didn't want survivors who'd put up offerings to help get them theirs couldn't get some for themselves.
if killers have a bad event mark my words, it's their own fault for not putting offerings out there plain and simple. Since if they don't want to put offerings out there then they don't deserve to get their special hooks plain and simple.
When I did the BBQ event I made sure to put up offerings every match on both sides even if I already had what i needed. I still did it to help others get their tokens since I knew not everyone would've gotten it and in fact I've still got offerings in my inventory on both sides.
If you or any other killer doesn't get it then you've got no one to blame but yourselves so stop trying to play the victim here.
By completely disregarding concerns over the new sabotage and the event hooks by using political terminology, you're making yourself look pretty foolish. Take a moment to actually read what we're writing and think about how unnecessarily difficult it's going to be for killers to gain all 5 cosmetics.
Many of us tried to get it day one because of how these events always end... in trolling. This has nothing to do with offerings and the number of hooks, but with how difficult it can be to hook survivors in the first place, let alone on specific hooks that might be a full map's width away. To barely get there and have it sabo'd. That is not the killer's fault.
Take a moment to reflect instead of being so dismissive.
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Sure, it's the killers fault, when 4 survivors with toolboxes and sabotage, sabotage the already spread hooks. Killer can increase the 2 hooks by a whooping 1. Which still isn't a problem for longer lasting toolboxes.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
@powerbats said:
@Tsulan said:
I agree on everything you said.Btw, the upcoming event will be even worse for killers than Haunted Grounds.
Sabotage gets a buff during a event where killers have to hook survivors on special hooks.
What could possibly go wrong?!You could oh i don't know run Hang mans Trick for the luls when people try and sabo your event hooks as well as nail them for doing so. I ran it on my Trapper as normal but also my Huntress for the daily she had and nailed jerks.
That´s the "just break the pallet" answer to looping.
Event hooks will be a minority. Means, that the hook won´t be usually the closest hook you´ll see. Now the minimum distance between hooks is 24 meters. So the killer will just barely reach the event hook, only to get body blocked and/or the hook sabotaged. If he drops the survivor, because he has hangmans, then the survivor will break free. Even IF the survivor doesn´t break free, he won´t just stay where you drop him until the hook respawns.
Mark my words. Killers will have a terrible event.
This is going to sound harsh because it is but it's also logic and facts hopefully putting a stop to all this victim nonese.
In other words no one's going to put up offerings so the poor killers will only get 2 hooks, is that what you're saying? I mean good grief talk about drama and woe is me victimhood here, I mean it's not like there wasn't offerings galore the 1st week of the BBQ event. Most killers had their weapon within the 1st few days and after that were just farming bp.
There was also quite a few wouldn't put any up and instead make sure survivors couldn't do only the special event gens. Just because they didn't want survivors who'd put up offerings to help get them theirs couldn't get some for themselves.
if killers have a bad event mark my words, it's their own fault for not putting offerings out there plain and simple. Since if they don't want to put offerings out there then they don't deserve to get their special hooks plain and simple.
When I did the BBQ event I made sure to put up offerings every match on both sides even if I already had what i needed. I still did it to help others get their tokens since I knew not everyone would've gotten it and in fact I've still got offerings in my inventory on both sides.
If you or any other killer doesn't get it then you've got no one to blame but yourselves so stop trying to play the victim here.
It's not the bullies fault. Let's shame the victim.2 -
@Tsulan said:
Sure, it's the killers fault, when 4 survivors with toolboxes and sabotage, sabotage the already spread hooks. Killer can increase the 2 hooks by a whooping 1. Which still isn't a problem for longer lasting toolboxes.
It's not the bullies fault. Let's shame the victim.
Oh yes this excuse again, it's always the 4 man with tool boxes or the 4 man with flashlights, or the 4 man DS squad that's used as an excuse. I rarely saw at rank 1-2 4 man toolboxes and when I did only 1 of them was used on hooks, the rest were used exclusively on event gens.
When someone sabo'd an event hook and got hooked they got left till either they died or someone else got hooked. So what if killers can only increase 1 hook you're seriously going to try and use that as an argument after I showed how false it was already?
So somehow survivors are going to magically not put up any offerings for an entire 2 weeks of an event thereby forging their own chance at any cosmetics and or extra bp. Yeah no wonder killers are held in such contempt on these forums when you try and use logic like that.
Now before the trash starts flowing again I'm not ignoring the sabo issues but even if the sabo last longer so what, you're not going to just drop them and let them bleed on the ground till it respawns? There seems to be this huge victim and woe is me complex now that omg there's nothing i can do.
You can chase your chase orientations to get them to go closer to an event hook, you can punish those that sabo your event hooks. There's so much you as a killer can do yet it's I'm defeated before a single match has started syndrome again.
If you're all going to complain this much over something that not only hasn't happened but also might not you're just feeding all the trolls out there. They see stuff like this and now they're know they can trigger you by going after your hooks.
It might turn out bad but it might also turn out just fine, but the doom and gloom happens every patch and evey event yet the game seems to go on just fine. This is why those complaining the loudest on both sides can't ever be taken seriously.
Someone sabo's your stuff then tunnel and camp them as a lesson or mori them same as happened during the event. Most killers that brought mori's only used them on the jerks, tea baggers and event hook saboteurs. Most survivors if they had a sabo daily went out of their way to the furthest corners of the map away from event hooks to sabo.
When I had a savo daily i either dropped it during the event or I did exactly as above then dropped my toolbox in front of the killer to let them know. but if killers are jerks this time with no provocation then their event hooks get sabo'd. That's an unwritten rule since what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Just play the game and if people are jerks they're jerks and punish them accordingly and if not play regularly like usual. Besides it's 2 friggin weeks and it's a lot easier for you to get your tokens than it is for survivors.
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Let's stop it here. You don't see the issue, because you were not around, when the Haunted Grounds happened. Where some dev had the brilliant idea to "fix" Flashlights. Turning them into a guaranteed save.powerbats said:@Tsulan said:
Sure, it's the killers fault, when 4 survivors with toolboxes and sabotage, sabotage the already spread hooks. Killer can increase the 2 hooks by a whooping 1. Which still isn't a problem for longer lasting toolboxes.
It's not the bullies fault. Let's shame the victim.
Oh yes this excuse again, it's always the 4 man with tool boxes or the 4 man with flashlights, or the 4 man DS squad that's used as an excuse. I rarely saw at rank 1-2 4 man toolboxes and when I did only 1 of them was used on hooks, the rest were used exclusively on event gens.
When someone sabo'd an event hook and got hooked they got left till either they died or someone else got hooked. So what if killers can only increase 1 hook you're seriously going to try and use that as an argument after I showed how false it was already?
So somehow survivors are going to magically not put up any offerings for an entire 2 weeks of an event thereby forging their own chance at any cosmetics and or extra bp. Yeah no wonder killers are held in such contempt on these forums when you try and use logic like that.
Now before the trash starts flowing again I'm not ignoring the sabo issues but even if the sabo last longer so what, you're not going to just drop them and let them bleed on the ground till it respawns? There seems to be this huge victim and woe is me complex now that omg there's nothing i can do.
You can chase your chase orientations to get them to go closer to an event hook, you can punish those that sabo your event hooks. There's so much you as a killer can do yet it's I'm defeated before a single match has started syndrome again.
If you're all going to complain this much over something that not only hasn't happened but also might not you're just feeding all the trolls out there. They see stuff like this and now they're know they can trigger you by going after your hooks.
It might turn out bad but it might also turn out just fine, but the doom and gloom happens every patch and evey event yet the game seems to go on just fine. This is why those complaining the loudest on both sides can't ever be taken seriously.
Someone sabo's your stuff then tunnel and camp them as a lesson or mori them same as happened during the event. Most killers that brought mori's only used them on the jerks, tea baggers and event hook saboteurs. Most survivors if they had a sabo daily went out of their way to the furthest corners of the map away from event hooks to sabo.
When I had a savo daily i either dropped it during the event or I did exactly as above then dropped my toolbox in front of the killer to let them know. but if killers are jerks this time with no provocation then their event hooks get sabo'd. That's an unwritten rule since what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Just play the game and if people are jerks they're jerks and punish them accordingly and if not play regularly like usual. Besides it's 2 friggin weeks and it's a lot easier for you to get your tokens than it is for survivors.
Just to give you an example: 4x DS, 2 Flashlights and 2 toolboxes. I down a survivor, try to pick up, flashlight. Down him again, face a wall, pick up and try to reach the hook, get body blocked until he triggers his DS. Next time I reached the hook = sabotaged before my eyes. And when I finally reached the hook with no one sabotaging: survivor on my shoulder disconnected.
And that was during 1 match.
Yeah, it's possible to get those hooks. But survivors made it a nightmare for killers.
No one complained during BBQ event, because that one was ok. No mayor things had been changed for the event.
Oh and survivors got their event coins way easier than killers. They just had to be alive to get the coins. Others completed the event gens, while they were free to do what they wanted.
We'll see in a few days, who is right.
I really hope, that I'm wrong.4 -
Ideal outcome is 2 dead 2 escaped, as mentioned on stream a whole bunch of times.
You don't want the game to be balanced just around feedback. Most people only play one side and so their feedback is super biased. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that would be blatantly OP or unfun, and their creators stood by them stone faced a totally serious about them. Feedback is great for showing you where an issue is, but not necessarily how to fix it. If you listen solely to feedback, you're going to have a bad time.
DC bans have actually just been massively increased. You may have noticed a bunch of posts about it. They start at a week now.
Camping while no other survivors are near the hook will soon penalize your rank. This will (hopefully) mean that killers that camp with no reason stay in the low ranks while killers who only camp when it's necessary rank up to the high ranks. The emblem system as a whole is always being looked at and tweaked.
Hatch I would say is a matter of perspective. I don't mean to say that it couldn't be better, but if I already killed three, I couldn't care less if one person gets out. I already won. The suggestion I keep seeing about just letting the killer close the hatch is not a good idea since that would just force the survivor into a stalemate in which they hide around the map for half an hour because the second they touch a generator the killer will know exactly where they are.
"Killers are deliberately designed to be weak." is just straight up untrue. Not all killers may be crazy powerful when they launch, but they are absolutely not designed to be weak.
I'm okay with hexes. I think individual perks could be better, and some of the totem spots could be moved. But as a whole, I have no issue with the hex system.
The stun queue was an unintended consequence of a different change and was quickly reverted. I don't see a reason to bring that up now.
Wall of answers.
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@Tsulan said:
Let's stop it here. You don't see the issue, because you were not around, when the Haunted Grounds happened. Where some dev had the brilliant idea to "fix" Flashlights. Turning them into a guaranteed save.
Just to give you an example: 4x DS, 2 Flashlights and 2 toolboxes. I down a survivor, try to pick up, flashlight. Down him again, face a wall, pick up and try to reach the hook, get body blocked until he triggers his DS. Next time I reached the hook = sabotaged before my eyes. And when I finally reached the hook with no one sabotaging: survivor on my shoulder disconnected.
And that was during 1 match.Yeah, it's possible to get those hooks. But survivors made it a nightmare for killers.
No one complained during BBQ event, because that one was ok. No mayor things had been changed for the event.
Oh and survivors got their event coins way easier than killers. They just had to be alive to get the coins. Others completed the event gens, while they were free to do what they wanted.
We'll see in a few days, who is right.
I really hope, that I'm wrong.I wasn't around for Haunted Grounds event but I've seen enough posts and my youngest son was to know all about it. The Sabo changes were made in response or not to this. Also Flashlights got nerfed into the ground so that isn't an issue anymore.
The issues you described can't happen since things have been changed so people need to stop living in the past since as you pointed out BBQ was fine due to changes. I mean look at all the complaints posted before the BBQ event, they were the exact same as now, I and many others said the exact same thing and we were told doom and gloom.
Well look how it turned out, killers got their stuff really easily and everyone was pretty happy and yet the killers didn't admit they were wrong. They just said well this happened last time and it'll happen again, no hey you were right or that yes it went smoothly because the devs changed it.
No survivors didn't get their coins easier since killers would quite often hook and someone would die with may'be 1 token or 2 if they were lucky. I played non stop as did a lot of people I know, some killers had it 1st day, it took me well over 1 week just to get my survivor cosmetic.
Sometimes event gens were really close together which made doing it nearly impossible and nearly every killer was either Billy or Nurse. There were a few Clowns and Huntresses but mostly it was Billy/Nurse making it super difficult to get a token let alone a few.
The devs aren't stupid and they changed things from Hallowed to BBQ and they'll probably dot eh same again this time.If they don't there's still 2 weeks to get your tokens which will still be easier than survivors.
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@powerbats said:
Oh yes this excuse again, it's always the 4 man with tool boxes or the 4 man with flashlights, or the 4 man DS squad that's used as an excuse. I rarely saw at rank 1-2 4 man toolboxes and when I did only 1 of them was used on hooks, the rest were used exclusively on event gens.
Who talked about "4 man this, 4 mans that"?
Again a strawman.
Why should we take you seriously if you conviniently ignore other posts and using political terminology ? (someone above nailed it)
Peoples should start to ignore you at this point.
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@Giche said:
@powerbats said:
Oh yes this excuse again, it's always the 4 man with tool boxes or the 4 man with flashlights, or the 4 man DS squad that's used as an excuse. I rarely saw at rank 1-2 4 man toolboxes and when I did only 1 of them was used on hooks, the rest were used exclusively on event gens.
Who talked about "4 man this, 4 mans that"?
Again a strawman.
Why should we take you seriously if you conviniently ignore other posts and using political terminology ? (someone above nailed it)
Peoples should start to ignore you at this point.
Oh geez are you seriously going to pull that nonsense when the evidence of 4 man this 4 man that is all over this forum in thousands of posts? I mean talk about not being taken seriously when the forums are
flooded with those types of posts including several on this very 1st page.2 -
@Peanits said:
You don't want the game to be balanced just around feedback. Most people only play one side and so their feedback is super biased. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that would be blatantly OP or unfun, and their creators stood by them stone faced a totally serious about them.
Yeah, like the Spirit's feedbacks who got mocked and dragged into the dirts 2 wholes weeks by our disgusting community (like the 15 seconds cooldown of her ability).
"Huur duuur that would be OP, keep learning her >:D "
Then finally added it when Devs noticed that no one wanted to buy an underwhelming killers with too many drawbacks.
Then pathetically said :
" We listened to your feedbacks no worries ^^"
"If she is the same than in the PTB it's because... because... A BUG! Yes it's a bug ^^""""" "
I only feel loathe for all of this.
3 -
@Peanits said:
Ideal outcome is 2 dead 2 escaped, as mentioned on stream a whole bunch of times.You don't want the game to be balanced just around feedback. Most people only play one side and so their feedback is super biased. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that would be blatantly OP or unfun, and their creators stood by them stone faced a totally serious about them. Feedback is great for showing you where an issue is, but not necessarily how to fix it. If you listen solely to feedback, you're going to have a bad time.
DC bans have actually just been massively increased. You may have noticed a bunch of posts about it. They start at a week now.
Camping while no other survivors are near the hook will soon penalize your rank. This will (hopefully) mean that killers that camp with no reason stay in the low ranks while killers who only camp when it's necessary rank up to the high ranks. The emblem system as a whole is always being looked at and tweaked.
Hatch I would say is a matter of perspective. I don't mean to say that it couldn't be better, but if I already killed three, I couldn't care less if one person gets out. I already won. The suggestion I keep seeing about just letting the killer close the hatch is not a good idea since that would just force the survivor into a stalemate in which they hide around the map for half an hour because the second they touch a generator the killer will know exactly where they are.
"Killers are deliberately designed to be weak." is just straight up untrue. Not all killers may be crazy powerful when they launch, but they are absolutely not designed to be weak.
I'm okay with hexes. I think individual perks could be better, and some of the totem spots could be moved. But as a whole, I have no issue with the hex system.
The stun queue was an unintended consequence of a different change and was quickly reverted. I don't see a reason to bring that up now.
Wall of answers.
2 kill 2 escapes is their declared outcome, not their definition of the ideal experience for either side. I'm curious about that.
If you ignore feedback or implement it half-heartedly, or implement irrelevant changes you aren't improving the situation, you exacerbate it. Balancing around SOUND feedback is necessary it's easy to spot bad suggestions and there are many more good ones. Listen to good feedback, especially those issues that are consistently repeated and you'll end up making good changes.
DC bans may have gone out, but that will not stop the DC problem. Keep note, you'll continue to see posts about Dc'ers ruining the experience of others because it's not enough to "punish" them after they've dc'd enough times. Many players will continue to game the system and continue to dc some matches and play many more to keep their ratio positive.
Punishing camping does not make it less likely to happen or more fun for the camped. If a match is going south anyway a killer will camp at any rank. Also, when was camping no longer deemed a legitimate tactic? Where's the change to make looping punishable?
Another perspective on the hatch is that it punishes a killer who does well during a match preventing an iridescent shard via an unfair mechanic.
They said during a dev stream that "Not all killers are meant to be viable at high ranks". That can be interpreted as "designed to be weak"
Hexes just suck. Losing a perk without a risk to survivors is just another unfair mechanic. Haunted Grounds came about because of this problem, but doesn't solve it.
The point of bringing that up is that no one understood why the change was made. You say it was an unintended consequence of another change, but what was that change? What was the intended consequences of making those changes? Whatever they were, they certainly weren't to the benefit of killers.
Wall of rebuttal.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
@Peanits said:
Ideal outcome is 2 dead 2 escaped, as mentioned on stream a whole bunch of times.You don't want the game to be balanced just around feedback. Most people only play one side and so their feedback is super biased. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that would be blatantly OP or unfun, and their creators stood by them stone faced a totally serious about them. Feedback is great for showing you where an issue is, but not necessarily how to fix it. If you listen solely to feedback, you're going to have a bad time.
DC bans have actually just been massively increased. You may have noticed a bunch of posts about it. They start at a week now.
Camping while no other survivors are near the hook will soon penalize your rank. This will (hopefully) mean that killers that camp with no reason stay in the low ranks while killers who only camp when it's necessary rank up to the high ranks. The emblem system as a whole is always being looked at and tweaked.
Hatch I would say is a matter of perspective. I don't mean to say that it couldn't be better, but if I already killed three, I couldn't care less if one person gets out. I already won. The suggestion I keep seeing about just letting the killer close the hatch is not a good idea since that would just force the survivor into a stalemate in which they hide around the map for half an hour because the second they touch a generator the killer will know exactly where they are.
"Killers are deliberately designed to be weak." is just straight up untrue. Not all killers may be crazy powerful when they launch, but they are absolutely not designed to be weak.
I'm okay with hexes. I think individual perks could be better, and some of the totem spots could be moved. But as a whole, I have no issue with the hex system.
The stun queue was an unintended consequence of a different change and was quickly reverted. I don't see a reason to bring that up now.
Wall of answers.
They said during a dev stream that "Not all killers are meant to be viable at high ranks". That can be interpreted as "designed to be weak"
You don't think that this is a huge issue by itself? No sane developer using a ranked mode would create something that was intentionally not meant to be used in the higher ranks.
The fact that they intentionally designed some killers to only be played in the lower ranks shows that on the gaming design side of things, they have not a single clue what's going on.
I've said it before but the devs need to play DbD as part of their job, primarily the killer side.
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I think you misquoted, but agree with me
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@Global said:
They want it to be a horror game but to do that they will piss off more than half the community by making the survivor experience scary cause after all its a horror game no matter how much people dont want to believe it.Define 'horror' though. Hide or Die seems like it could be horror because it may provide jump scares and stuff. DBD isn't horror... its tag. You don't get jump scares, the atmosphere isn't scary (especially as 3rd person view).
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@Giche said:
@Peanits said:
You don't want the game to be balanced just around feedback. Most people only play one side and so their feedback is super biased. I have seen some ridiculous suggestions that would be blatantly OP or unfun, and their creators stood by them stone faced a totally serious about them.
Yeah, like the Spirit's feedbacks who got mocked and dragged into the dirts 2 wholes weeks by our disgusting community (like the 15 seconds cooldown of her ability).
"Huur duuur that would be OP, keep learning her >:D "
Then finally added it when Devs noticed that no one wanted to buy an underwhelming killers with too many drawbacks.
Then pathetically said :
" We listened to your feedbacks no worries ^^"
"If she is the same than in the PTB it's because... because... A BUG! Yes it's a bug ^^""""" "
I only feel loathe for all of this.
The very same community bitched and moaned about kneejerk reactions for over a ######### year. When the devs take this into account (you know, for the suggestions posted LESS THAN TWO HOURS after her release), people suddenly start forgetting and raise their pitchforks.
The only thing you loathe is not getting what you want, right when you want it.
And of course, they're still buffing her and apparently this is not satisfactory. Again, Exhibit #215 of who the devs are trying to please.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
If you ignore feedback or implement it half-heartedly, or implement irrelevant changes you aren't improving the situation, you exacerbate it. Balancing around SOUND feedback is necessary it's easy to spot bad suggestions and there are many more good ones. Listen to good feedback, especially those issues that are consistently repeated and you'll end up making good changes.I hesitate to ask what some of that "sound" feedback is.
DC bans may have gone out, but that will not stop the DC problem. Keep note, you'll continue to see posts about Dc'ers ruining the experience of others because it's not enough to "punish" them after they've dc'd enough times. Many players will continue to game the system and continue to dc some matches and play many more to keep their ratio positive.
Players don't know what the ratio is. They are only speculating. People will continue to d/c, but if the threat of a ban deters them from d/cing more than they think they should, then it is working as intended. It is not possible to eliminate all intentional d/cs, and that was never the goal.
Punishing camping does not make it less likely to happen or more fun for the camped. If a match is going south anyway a killer will camp at any rank. Also, when was camping no longer deemed a legitimate tactic? Where's the change to make looping punishable?
Camping as a primary strategy is not intended to assist in ranking up. Every veteran player knows this. Similarly, cleansing dull totems and sabotaging hooks do not contribute a single dime to the emblem system, despite being helpful in many cases. For a game that heavily rotates around the killer seeking and chasing survivors, standing in front of a hook does not contribute to that. The emblem system already decided the dev's stance on camping as a primary strategy, and this is nothing more than doubling down on that. And I say this as a Hag player, who likes camping because it's easy to do.
Furthermore, looping has consistently been made less effective across patches and it is dishonest to pretend that is not the case. Camping killers are lucky they did little to change the practical effectiveness of camping.
Another perspective on the hatch is that it punishes a killer who does well during a match preventing an iridescent shard via an unfair mechanic.
They have been testing multiple iterations of the endgame as it is. Furthermore, the survivor sacrifices as much time as the killer does in this situation. The hatch mechanic may lean toward the survivor, but the standoff requires two, equally stubborn and self-entitled people.
They said during a dev stream that "Not all killers are meant to be viable at high ranks". That can be interpreted as "designed to be weak"
McCote says a lot of stupid things. Let the patch notes do the talking, rather than clinging onto obviously trivial statements, made by a single, silly individual who has acted more like meme than a representative.
Hexes just suck. Losing a perk without a risk to survivors is just another unfair mechanic. Haunted Grounds came about because of this problem, but doesn't solve it.
Like the hatch, they are trying different ways to change this. At this point, I don't think you're concerned about them listening to feedback, but rather the speed at which they implement it.
The point of bringing that up is that no one understood why the change was made. You say it was an unintended consequence of another change, but what was that change? What was the intended consequences of making those changes? Whatever they were, they certainly weren't to the benefit of killers.
And here you seem upset at this as a symbolic gesture. No, not every change is meant to benefit killers. And obviously, this change was egregious enough for them to hotfix it out. And you still are concerned about them not listening to feedback?
I can sit here and copy paste every significant killer favored change in the patch notes or the hard data they have graciously provided since their miraculous revelation back in March, but it seems that all of the devs attempts at communication and compromise have been largely ignored by a vocal portion of the community. At this point, I question their vision of balance.
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It seems like they want the Survivors to be the strong side and be able to easily bully the Killer and they want the Killer to have to struggle to have an enjoyable experience. If they don’t, then why are Survivors still much stronger than Killers and why hasn’t anything been done about event hooks being sabotaged.2
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Hrmmmm intersting things going on and i agree with a few things but how hard can it be to see if they speak the same language mag them and explain were all doing the event for items I let you guys do your event gens you all let me get a few hooks in no kills and then all get a pip all get tokens and stuff and next time they might see you helped and play as well1
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Some people just can't understand that balance does not equal "what I want." It's clear the devs want both sides to have fun. It's literally the same people complaining over and over since this forum opened in like May. I pop into the subreddit once in a while and it's the same people complaining there for over a year now. Yet you're all still here, still playing this game that you claim is so unbalanced and miserable.
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