Recently started to play legion, why does it feel like they are punished for using their power?
As the title asks, you have a 4 second stun on a non-lethal power, while you watch survivors run away. On top of that when you slap someone it takes away from your power meter.
To me the 4 second stun is absolutely horrendous to play with on a power that does so little. Plus deep wounds is a joke of a status effect, and their entire power is based around it.
As compared to blight who only suffers a 2.5 second stun on a power that can actually down survivors.
Anyone else feel this way?
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Yep, I'm right there with you. I main legion on the few occasions I play killer, and his power is needlessly punished. No scratch marks, long stun at the end, power ends if you miss or if you hit a person a second time, no way to kill people with your power.
The reason for this? Legion is not allowed to have nice things, because survivors hate him and devs don't know what to do to make him less hateable.
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The devs have been kicking legion while he’s down since his initial nerf
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I've been a blight main for a while now, and after just starting on legion it feels so horrible. I could count so many instances where I would've downed survivors if I was playing blight.
But instead I have to wait an agonizing 4 seconds as I watch a survivor make it to a safe loop that would cost me a gen to run.
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Certainly feels like that happened to them. I watched PTB legion gameplay, and that short stun looks like it was amazing to have.
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Yeah, it's frustrating af. I play other killers for the dailies/tomes when I need to, and most of them feel like you get much more worth out of their power than you do Legion's. I won't lie, I only play legion because I like the character(s) as a whole and I can't bring myself to level up other killers when I very rarely play as killer anyway. Almost any other killer is better than Legion, and anyone who disagrees with that just hates Legion because he's "unfun" to play against. The reward/cost ratio of his power isn't worth it half the time.
When a killer is LESS scary/threatening while using their power, it's a bad thing. If you're injured (which you usually are against legion) and you see Legion frenzy towards you, you're probably gonna be inclined to take the hit since he'll run off to hit someone else. You shouldnt WANT to be hit by someone's power, but injured survivors do, so he leaves them alone for a while. He needs some big changes, because as he is now, he may be unfun, but every game I play against another legion is usually an easy escape.
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Honestly legionndoesn't even need a complete overhaul of their power like doc or freddy. I'd say they need an addon pass, MANY quality of life changes, and they could also make deep wounds an actual threat instead of a minor annoyance.
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The good news is that deep wounds is supposedly already being looked at, so he may be getting some buffs through that aspect. I definitely agree on the add-ons, his iridescents are so meh and the rest... Rarely worth it. I just use the cool down reductions and frenzy duration increasers, and the rest.... They're just piling up. Hopefully in a future update they get to doing that.
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I typically dont have any problem with Legion's power. Generally the fact that survivors get a speed boost after the first stab doesnt bother me since USUALLY I'm chasing after their teammates at that point anyway and only really start truly chasing someone once their already injured. Survivors who were caught trying to work on a gen while injured typically dont have too much to work with within the area and are only really gonna give ya issues if you end up getting tunnel vision by chasing after 1 person whos running you through the entire map and thus allowing them to use the entire map's resources rather than limiting them to the few resources around the gen that you initially caught them at.
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Well, they kind of are. Legion has the easiest to use and most uncounterable power in the entire game, so they had to add some downsides. It can only be used to injure, there's no scratchmarks, there's a massive self-stun, one miss and it's gone...
It's like how Bubba has his tantrum. It's there to make an otherwise super easy power have a downside.
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You feel punished getting a handful of survivors wasting time mending, leaving them unable to assist the last survivor you’re targeting to down and hook?!
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depends on the situation, it can be very rewarding if you can get 2+ hits in frenzy others wise it is just like getting a regular hit and thats assuming you never miss because missing can completely ruin your momentum.
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You forgot to mention the part where blight has to waste his time and bump into a wall before he can hit somebody where as legion can run at them and hit them. And on top of that he can vault windows and pallets fast, and he is also notified where other survivors are nearby. you’re just playing legion wrong
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I don't play Legion as much because the are stressful af to play due to them but really having a power!
The fact that a successful M1 drains their power makes no sense to me! The 4s stun doesn't bother me really, due to the fact that I'm a retired Nurse main and he fatigue is worse than Legions!
I personally think Legion needs a total rework, but we all know the devs idea of a rework
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Because they are. Not to mention how easy their power is to counter.
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Legion would be a lot better if they: Allowed him to see scratch marks during feral frenzy, reduced his stun after feral frenzy ends from a 4 second stun to a 2.5 second stun, completely changed all of his add-ons and made him slightly faster during feral frenzy.
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Don't you know? They have to make survivor mains happy because they don't want to be flooded with crybabies on the forums and their social media.
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It is what it is, killers get nerfed so they can't even use their powers properly just so the survivors can be happy and get easy escapes. Bruh.
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The Legion is meant to injure 4 people very quickly to the point where they are effectively a P3 Myers at any given point in the match. Their power gives them a pretty much guaranteed first hit while revealing all survivors within their terror radius even if they're in lockers. The stun afterwards can be used in a few different ways: You can bait them into committing to a pallet or window and body block it while coming out of your power, putting them in a bad spot or you can scare them into pallet stunning you which breaks you out of your power much quicker. Combine the pallet stun tactic with perks like Enduring and Spirit Fury and you have a very effective method to go right onto the offensive.
Ruin, Undying, Thana and Enduring is probably their best build currently. Enduring or Thana can be swapped out for things like Spirit Fury, Pop Goes The Weasel, Thrilling Tremors, Dying Light, Nemesis, Play With Your Food or Surveillance.
You are effectively a Basic Attack/M1 killer whose power is meant to keep survivors injured and mending instead of doing gens.
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Legion is... it's very complicated.
You see, Legion was a VERY different killer once upon a time. He meant to be like Nurse, able to ignore everything but easier to use, and had an entirely seperate health bar in the form of Deep Wounds in compensation.
Problem? You were a 110% killer, so downing people while injured was absurd. This meant the best way to kill survivors was to repeatedly stab the survivor which would deplete their DW timer which required 5 hits or 3 with Frank's Mixtape. This meant that in the 1v1, Legion was unbeatable. Say what you will about Nurse, but she has counterplay—Legion didn't. However, without the Mixtape, downing a survivor took too long and survivors could power through the gens. This meant that Legion was an unbeatable but slow 1v1 killer who sucked in the 1v4.
Old Legion nearly killed this game. It was that bad. So Legion was nerfed... hard. I dare say that they were the worst killer in the game. Frenzy was slowed, their vaults were slowed, he couldn't see blood in Frenzy anymore, fatigue was increased, add-ons were nerfed, Frenzy's lethality was completely removed, DW underwent changes—Legion was awful.
As time progressed, some nerfs were reverted. Frenzy was sped up (still slower than the original version), vaults were fast again, he could see scratch marks/blood during fatigue, and people learned how to use his Frenzy to apply pressure ot multiple survivors and then pick one to chase.
Legion is a mess because his original incarnation was a failure. I think the devs are scared of buffing Legion because of how bad he was originally. You are being punished for using his power because Legion's kit was redesigned to punish him as much as possible due to it, and many of Legion's design decisions are outdated (ex: a non-lethal power can't see scratchmarks but the one-shot Oni can).
The devs need to commit to a path and stick with it in regards to Legion. Either bring back Frenzy's lethality and balance him around it, or keep Frenzy as a stall tool and balance that.
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You killer mains trip me out by calling survivor mains crybabies. Let someone mention Survive with Friends and the majority of you meltdown.
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Why don't both of you take that crap elsewhere. We're discussing legion, not killer mains and survivor mains.
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Because we are being punished. After coming out of the 4 second stun a survivor can just never stop looping and running making our power useless. They don't have to mend if they run. I'm sorry if I hit them and continue chase they should eventually go down.
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Yea Killers shouldn't have a delay when you hit a survivor
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Yeah there are definitely arguments on both sides but survivors have it way better. SWF really isn't a problem to me though.
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Just because a killer is easier to use it doesn't mean that the killer just need to suck, that not how balacing works.
Playing a harder killer is a choice for the killer and his skill of being able to make use of the power, just look at Spirit, even though the game says she's hard to play, she's actually one of the easiest killers and still one of the strongest killers on the game, while Trapper power is "easy", you must be a mind game god to be able to play at high ranks.
For The Legion, there's no power in his power, it just makes survivors have only one mistake before being downed, a good survivor will still be able to take advantage and loop until god knows when.
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Freddy and Spirit would disagree with your opening statement.
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I'd say spirit does take some skill. You have to know the pathing survivors take to be good with her. Even then iron will is a kick to spirits non-existent nuts.
I do agree with freddy though.
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Nope. Just walk to a loop and keep playing the coin toss game (using her power in very short bursts to randomly position yourself on one side of the loop or the other in order to catch the survivor, who cannot leave the loop or they'll be their even quicker). Even like that Spirit is still one of the strongest killers in the game.
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But Freddy and Spirit are both easy killers, their difficulty rank in the game is just based on how long it takes to get used to their power, not playing to utmost effiency. That's why Trapper is labeled as easy even though it's hard to play him in high rank matches, you just gotta learn to put down a trap, but in a real match you need to learn every map corner with grass, where survivors loop and outplay them like a war general.
Spirit is harder to undestand the power, same with Freddy, new players won't undestand the phasing ability and the dream world, but will understand what is a trap and how to put on the floor right off the bat.
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If I remember correctly they are planning on reworking deep wounds it could be good or bad idk, for leg it might make his frenzy better but I might screw him even more. 4 s stun is pretty ######### tho
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The LEAST they could do is make them undetectable while frenzied, since if they even manage to surprise you (on top of their loud ass grunts) they have to suffer the 4 second cooldown, allowing you to get somewhere safe 100% of the time if you're not a complete potato.
As things are, if you just hold W you basically counter the Legion's entire power unless they are 10m away from you.
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He's definately rough to play. He excels at injuring and finding survivors with his power, but sucks at downing, so you have to bring some perks to help his weakness like unrelenting, bamboozle, fire up, devour hope, or play with your food.
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And enduring so you can bait them into stunning you with a pallet and recover super fast. Combine that with the one that auto breaks every 3 pallets you get hit with and he can really surprise people. Its just a harder playstyle to pull off
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Because to an extent it is. The base power time is way too short, meaning you might only get 1 injure with a power who's upside is injuring all survivors quickly. Also, most survivors won't care about being injured at all, they can still waste your time immensely with the right perks or tiles, even if injured, and deep wounds is pretty terrible and wastes almost none of the survivors time. But don't underestimate Legion, they are definitely pretty bad and like a lot of killers can be set up to lose by certain maps/perks/swf, but he will dominate if the survivors believe he is a free win.
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Legion was the first Killer I got my adept on. I don't find their power underwhelming, just got to learn to read the heart beats. You run around and stab people sure the last one gets a head start on you but you get to see their scratches as soon as you are aware. And there is an add on to help reduce the fade. When I get on Legion for a couple of hours I can get the 3 kills and 4 kills that I want. So not too much of a biggie. I'm not a red rank killer and against red rank survivors I'm more likely to get 0 or 1 kills but eh. It's not the end of the world.
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To be fair, almost every killer power is punishing if used wrong or badly. Miss a hatchet as Huntress? The Survivor will gain distance. Miss all your hatchets? Well now you probably have to break chase and reload. Miss a chainsaw as Billy? You just lost the 2.5s you spent charging and the ~1s miss animation or more if you bumped scenery. Launch a wave as PH and miss? You just fed your target a ton of distance. Bump a wall as Leatherface? You lost your charge time, all your charges and go into a pretty lengthy tantrum. I think you get my point.
Yes, Legion's 4 second stun is a bit long, but on the front side of things, Legion's power has no charge time, no cast animation, no nothing. Just push M2, knife goes up and you're off. Add in that there are multiple things you can do to minimize the self stun at the end... it's really not as bad as it initially seems. However, just like every other power in the game, you have to make sure what you got out of it was worth it.
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Tbh try using his sprint to close gaps or to get across map a lil just be surr to have some power left and dont be too direct when cross mapping . use the tracking for easy information if u happen to hit a surv during cross mapping.(lots of killers forget u dont have to be right by a gen to hear its being worked on just its vicinity). Last but not least if your a mind game god then try to use your 4sec stun duration to block vaults or doorways or even hook unsaves if your sweaty enough(i struggle body blocking with it)
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I have nearly 500 hours on legion at rank 1 and the power is not used for chase you kind of use it getting a few injures and starting pressure. With the power you usually find the location of all survivors. With all of this info you wanna try to chase survivors into each other and interrupt all the actions you can. Deep wound also ensures that the survivor can’t do gens for a measly 10 seconds or so which can be ok. The buff I would recommend is that every stab legion gets with feral the cool down loses .5 to 1 second encouraging big feral frenzies. Also could do a 6 meter terror radius reduction while keeping the detection range.
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The most simple of answers is they nerfed Legion all to hell. Survivors complained and complained and complained about how "OP" or about "how unfair mend is".
Survivors always and I do mean ALWAYS want easy mode and they get it because this is not a killer driven game. Its a survivor driven game, the killers is just their selling point. BHVR has become the next EA, a gaming corporation who forgot what their mission statement truly is.
But I digress, they lean super heavily into what the survivors want in game because their are 4 of them and 1 of us. And that goes for the player base ratio as well.
Greed and the ones who complain the most get the most.
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Power cooldown is 4s. attack cooldown is 3.2, but you can cancel your power right on survivor's back without giving him speedboost so 4s probably gives survivor same distance as regular hit. Also with add-ons it becomes 3s, less than regular attack cooldown
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That's because they nerfed him into the ground and his power now is just to delay the game a bit by haveing people heal. They did it so people could not down people with his power with the right add ons since that was too strong for someone who can jump walls. Basically if you dont use thanatophobia you are probably going to have a hard time in high ranks even if thanatophobia dose not slow healing now
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As a Legion main here's my 2 cents,
Grabbing players out of locker because you seen heartbeats are so worth it.
I personally don't mind the 4 second stuns,
He/she/they are my favorite killer.
My second favorite is mr.deathslinger
Both use the same perks, (in my setup obviously)
Both are so fun to play. (IMHO)
I can't stand (lol) ping pong, that guys at a cruel disadvantage.
(Size doesn't matter they said)
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Even when it is easy to do sth as spirit, she is still very hard to play perfectly compared to most of the other killers. But at this point she is a problem, because even the best swfs struggle against her, because of the lack of most counterplays.
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Suck an abscess.
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