What if Decisive Strike was base kit?
Before you lose your mind hear me out, I'm not asking for this change I just want to know what people think about it.
So I've been thinking, Decisive currently uses a perk slot, and is one of the strongest perks in the game. It is one of the only perks in this game that's effects are so drastic that you have to constantly be aware of it and can be extremely punishing if you're not. But on the other hand, it is also a solution to the incredibly annoying problem of being tunneled off hook, which is something I don't think should require a perk slot. I've played both sides in red ranks since launch, and while I mainly play killer, I know how much it SUCKS to just get tunneled off hook. So this is my proposition.
NEW DECISIVE (Base Kit)
- After being unhooked a 30 second timer starts.
- While in chase, the timer is paused.
- The "ability" is deactivated when you touch a generator, or when another survivor is hooked.
- When picked up during the timer, just like current decisive, you get a skill check, and if succeeded the killer will be stunned.
- Just like current decisive, it can only be used once per trial.
My reasoning for this is pretty straight forward, the timer is shorter to allow less time where the survivor is effectively invincible. The timer is paused in chase so that if you are immediately chased off hook the killer can't just wait out the timer, and is forced to eat the stun, or leave you alone. And the "ability" is deactivated when touching a generator or when another survivor is hooked to prevent the survivor from progressing the game while being invincible. I have also thought about the ability being deactivated during the end game collapse, but I ran into a lot of situations where that could be abused, so for the sake of this example, let's figure it can be used during the EGC.
So yeah that's pretty much it, I feel like this can still be abused a bit, but is a step in the right direction to a world where killers aren't constantly asking themselves when they last hooked someone, and survivors aren't tunneled off hook. As far as what would happen to the perk decisive strike, I have no clue, but if they did do this they would probably just change it's name and icon and come up with something else. Anyway I'd love to hear what people think about this, and feel free to let me know anything I may have missed. Thanks.
Comments
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The perk should function like this and still be a perk. Good idea, though not original but I disagree with it being base kit, the only thing that should be "base kit" is there should always be an obsession in the trial no matter what perks are used. Also there should be a downside to being the obsession, idk what it could be but currently it is only a good thing to be the obsession (a lot of extra BPs.)
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Yeah but God loopers would take on this challenge stay in the TR and be a pain in the ass.
Throw in a flashlight and you could presumably eat a whole lot of killer's time!
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Laurie isn't base kit, she's DLC. So this will never happen.
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OP problem means for the perk to be replaced as well
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People who do this aren't doing gens though.
They would actually give the killer free pressure.
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I would kill myself.
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Some kind of anti tunneling mechanic would be pretty neat imo.
It's pretty dumb that the only option to do anything against tunneling is using a perk from a paid DLC.Kinda unfair for newer players that would probably need it the most.
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Unless it was the hardest skillcheck ever, and it punishes survivors who want to just waste it off the bat, then fine. I could consider it. Like if a survivor runs head first into the killer and gets downed when he's carrying someone or some dumb ######### that most of these cocky survivors do.
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I know the idea wasn't original as a lot of people in the community have basically said this exactly or in a different way, I just haven't seen many people throw around the idea of an anti-tunneling feature being a base kit ability. I feel like making the changes I proposed and keeping it as a perk would be fine (I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it.) But some people might feel like they just straight gutted decisive with no benefit, which is fine when you have a higher understanding of the game and realize how problematic decisive currently is, but newer players might feel survivors are getting screwed over.
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New meta:
DS + Unbreakable + Borrowed + Dead Hard + Object/Adrenaline
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That is definitely possible if you were to commit to someone shortly after they were unhooked, the thought process was to cut the timer in half to avoid pausing it unintentionally, and it would only pause while in a chase. It is still definitely abusable, and if this were theoretically added in the way I described hopefully they would be able to figure something out to avoid this problem.
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The idea was to gut decisive so that it is purely an anti-tunneling ability. Using it with unbreakable would still be entirely possible, but only if you were to chase them directly off hook. The unbreakable-decisive combo is a problem in of itself that I wasn't really considering when making this. Good point though.
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That's a really interesting idea! I love the idea of using a new physical item in game. Would this be base kit? Or a replacement for decisive?
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You right about deactivation conditions. When survivor have time to do anything after unhooking, it's not a tunneling anymore.
In my opinion best antitunneling perk is Sprint burst, which is free. You don't need to buy licensed dlc for this perk. Once you unhooked, you can sprint so far away, that killer don't even think about chasing you. And if he does, you will be safe keepeing distance and reach any loop you want. Even if killer decide to tunnel you, it wouldn't be that frustrating, because you probably waste another killer's minute. Unless you run from hook into his face or unsafe area.
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A downside for the obsession? Hard disagree. Giving a random survivor a debuff that's completely out of their control that they get for just loading into a match is not a good idea. I don't wanna load into the match, see that I'm the obsession and think "darn well guess I should've DCed and not be disadvantaged simply for playing the game". If you want obsession perks to have more of an effect on the actual obsession sure, but not as a default mechanic for killers. We need to stray away from RNG, not add more.
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To be fair, I learned to avoid tunneling because I had zero protection. Which sounds dumb, because "avoiding tunneling" is kind of like saying "dodge a Mori" but it's more that I don't farm my teammates and don't get in the killers face after I've been unhooked, expecting them to obey this invisible rule that will get me free wins and undo their map pressure.
It's sucks that the biggest anti-tunnel perk is a paid DLC and mysteriously never seems to appear in the shrine, but at the same time not having the perk taught me what getting tunneled actually is.
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So what base kit power will the killer have?
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I'd be okay with this, but killers also need some perks worked into their base kit then. What would be a fair exchange?
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I feel like killers should also get pop added to their base kit. Or maybe instead of that, normal kicking of gens regresses them an initial 5% and then applies normal regression.
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I feel like the trial warmup idea that the devs confirmed would be added to the game soon™ would be a good compromise. That or something to do with mild generator slow-down would work.
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Then you have to give killers thanataphobia as basket for gen rushing
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Im confused, whats the TR have to do with anything?
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In chase he said, and if you still tunnel after ds is basekit that says something.
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Firstly, why?
Avoiding beeing hooked again as anti tunnel is nice and all, but requires the killer to pick you up (and everybody knows how funny slugging for ds/4k is or at least fron survivors side), so you either make the timer pause in dying state, but also remove it after entering a locker (survivors should run away from the hook, and shouldn't hide near it) or you make something like BT basekit
Secondly, in pretty sure some people have already said "and what should the killers get as basekit?", removing on of the most abusable perks from swf squads is already a quiete significent buff
Thirdly, perks are meant to help you in certain situations, and an anti tunnel perk is no exception. The entire principle of perks is to be better suited for your most vulnerable situations, killees might need bbq or whispers to find a new survivor, so why should survivors get one of these measures for free? Leave it as a perk, with such changes, and make it appear more frequently in the shop
otherwise interesting idea
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@LordGlint OP said that the changes should include a paused timer in the TR, and experienced swf squads can simply abuse this
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Reread the OP, they said paused timer while in chase, not while in TR. You can be right next to the killer and not be in chase since the chase mechanic requires the killer to maintain LOS on a survivor that is running. The best you could really do to abuse this is remain infront of the killer and thus take a hit...in which case they could just pick you up after youve been slugged for 30 seconds since you wouldnt be in chase while on the ground.
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Back in the days, being an obsession would mean youll get tunneled hard cause of the obsesion-based perks for killers (dying lights needed the obsession to die)
Now being the obsession means youll mostly be left alone for these perks so youre at lower risk, which is a bit ironic..since...well youre... the obsession
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But, chase would be a stupid idea, most killers could follow the person around without starting a chase, (it requires some skill, but it is possible) so the best way to make this "paused will in chase" effective would be to make it TR or simpmy radius bound (like while within 25m of the killer) and this would make it abusable
But otherwise, yeah, you're right
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What if og Ebony Mori was basekit?
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Yes, i agree it should be base kit but without agressive play possibilities
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That would be not so great...
The point I was trying to get to was to grant players a counter to being directly tunneled off hook without being able to abuse the perk, meaning that you would only get hit with decisive if you were intentionally b-lining for someone off hook, and then not slugging them. However, as a lot of people have pointed out, there are a lot of ways that this could be abused that I didn't think about, and I wouldn't want a base kit ability to be abuseable.
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This is a great point, and something I didn't think about, having the timer based around chase could be abused by moonwalking towards people, or abusing the chase system in other ways, however if it was based on a radius around the killer, that could also be abused in some ways, such as a survivor b-lining to the killer and staying near them for the rest of the game until the killer is forced to eat the stun, while they wouldn't be progressing the game at all, this would still be annoying. Again, if a base-kit ability like this was theoretically added to the game, it would have to be incredibly polished, and un-abusable, further proving how hard a concept like this is to add to the game.
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If ds was basekit, would basekit make your choice be enough to make up for the imbalance?
Incentive for killer to leave hook, incentive to chase new survivor, a timer for ds counter play.
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I honestly like this idea. But only if it were kept as a perk. For it to be a basekit, killers would constantly slug. I know I would. As the perk by itself, this is great.
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They already have the base kit to camp, tunnel, and slug to death.
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What if ebony mori are base kit wait ear me out before you burn me on the stake i know that sound stupid but it is
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That would be better
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Because devs love making base kit changes to make solo q better.
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I would go for it if BBQ becomes base kit for all killers.
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I been saying this for months now there should be obsession in the trial no matter what perks are used
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I don't get why everyone wants 30 secs so when u do go down will the time still keeps going or is it inf because then it's just a sorter wait for the killers
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...then Laurie wouldn't have three teachables, if this was the only change.
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The issue with the "DS deactivates when another survivor is hooked" idea is that you can down the person who got saved and the savior at the same time. Hook the savior and now the person who got saved is screwed.
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