The devs are at it again with breakable walls.
Autohaven now has breakable walls in PTB, and the devs have still ignored the criticisms about them. Specifically by Putting them in loops that were perfectly fine without them. Essentially creating godloops or infinites in the process.
I will say the breakable walls in gas heaven garage aren't terrible, they create multiple entrances and mess with the usual loop there.
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I read your post and I just do not empathize. Breaking walls has not lost me a game as of yet. It’s mostly given me more Brutality points.
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thats the point of them though.
to give survivors very strong loops until the killer opens a path for himself to get a shortcut.
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The devs literally stated they wanted the walls to favor killers, not survivors.
The fact that you have to break it for a loop to be bearable is terrible usage of them.
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I think the devs know that we don't like them and that they're bad game design, but they love them too much to only put one or two in good places, so they throw them in undesirable places and then refuse to acknowledge our feedback.
Wait when did they say that? That makes this whole situation funny as hell because the walls are being used to recreate infinites or god loops.
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It was in the dev update just before deathslinger's PTB.
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Ow yea breakable walls the most uselles meachanic in the game.
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The devs have shown that they take data to be the only reliable information to base balancing decisions on. On average across all ranks, a little over two survivors typically die in a trial. So they are looking for soft nerfs for all killers. That's why they have breakable walls that create infinites.
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Didn't they themselves say not to draw conclusions from the stats?
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I think in the two games I saw there were three god loops. Two in Ormond, one on Bloodlodge
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They only use the stats when they want to. They said not to draw conclusions from them when talking about buffing or nerfing a Killer but used their stats to justify leaving OoO in its current state.
They need to start showing us stats that take into account as many variables as possible. These stats that are just quickly taken for a stream are just making things worse.
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Was that the same stream that Ethan said survivors carrying OoO typically don't survive, so there's no reason to rework it?
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I agree with your last point. I don't like that the devs hoard information.
But you cite a contradiction. They say don't draw conclusions to the community, but in the same stream Ethan explains their decision making by way of stats.
The breakable walls are clearly soft nerfs for killers. These nerfs are coming after showing the whole community that across all ranks, killers generally tie or win. I don't think it's far fetched to draw a line between these two points.
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So what your saying is, they can draw as many conclusions as they like. But as soon as someone from the community does it it's a flawed viewpoint?
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There could be many reasons the perk has a low survival rate. The stats can't account for the variables, the devs shouldn't be able to draw from stats that don't have all of the information.
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So does ormond. Haddonfiield and swamp maps are next🤣
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I mean they kind of can't from a design point, think about it. Either it benefits the killer to break the wall, at which point this is survivor sided and it would better benefit the killer to just have a doorway where the breakable wall is, or it Benefits the killer to NOT kick the wall at which point why even put a breakable wall there? Just make it a regular wall. Like the breakable walls on the second floor of coal tower, there's literally 0 point to breaking them, so you get no interactions out of them as a killer. Breakable walls CAN'T benefit killers
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what loop are you talking about btw?
I havent played much and all ive seen was one on wretched shop thats next to the window that used to always be open but now is closed, and that one is a survivor nerf
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The problem with that though is that they might as well just be a pre-dropped pallet. Because they effectively behave as such. The other problem is that on some maps, the breakable wall is actually good and the killer doesn't want to break it.
It has 2 problems. Either it is good to leave it up, because it weakens a loop, so why not just make it a wall? Or, it gives survivors an infinite and must be broken. In which case that just makes it a pre-dropped pallet.
What they should do, is have all breakable walls favor survivors, in that, if the wall is up, the survivor is benefitted, but if the killer breaks it, then it favors killer. But now, instead of walls just existing all spots where the walls are, are open by default. Survivors then have to spend some time performing an action to "build" the wall up, then once the killer breaks it, it is gone.
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I think it wasn't bad in design at first but jesus its so ######### annoying they should just removethem
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There's one in azarovs resting place that blocks the doorway next to the window. Making a really long window loop.
Two possible ones in blood lodge that make extremely annoying window vaults to deal with.
The one you mentioned for the wretched shop, which sounds dreadful to deal with if not broken immediately.
The ones in gas heaven block the majority of the gas station up if you don't break them. The ones in the garage are not necessary to break, but do provide another entry if you want it.
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I think they are fine, they add another small layer to the gameplay. I would understand your concern that they make certain loops better for survivors if the maps weren't nerfed for survivors in different ways. Bloodlodge for example now seems much smaller.
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and that they do...
but if you dont break them, they will continue to block the path.
and whether thats favoring the killer or survivor is entirely dependend on which exact path is being blocked - and it has been that way ever since they got introduced. Just look at the Dead Dawg Saloon, there are tons of walls there that, if not broken down, are an actual hinderance to the killer, by making certain window loops stronger.
in the end, a broken down wall usualy benefits the killer by making a survivors loop a lot weaker, while an still standing one can backfire.
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From what I've seen breakable walls in most cases create powerful loops for survivors and force the killer to take them down in order to counter the loop. I think the issue is that the devs want the "broken down" walls to favor the killer, but when you're already so strapped for time trying to pressure the generators, its a massive downside to have to break the walls in order to actually win any chases near them.
I have seen a few that actually are worse for survivors to remain up but its super rare.
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I can only think of one that is worse for the survivors right now and I get hits/downs there all the time depending on which killer I am. In Badham, in the house with the basement with 2 flights of stairs, one leading to the garage with the pickup truck,if the survivor does not vault the window at top of stairs they, go through the open door and get hit or they try to go back through the house and there is a breakable wall right there in middle and there is no place to go but in a locker. I just so happened to be using bubba last night and chainsawed someone there so fresh in my mind
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They have yet to put a breakable wall in killer shack, this makes me unhappy.
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while i can certainly see the flaw with time management, that is their intended use.
they are ment to create a shortcut for the killer on strong loops, thats why the killer is the one able to break them down in the first place.
if they were placed in ways where they actually benefit the killer, they wont ever get broken down. thats clearly visible in the Dead Dawg Saloon once more with the little dead end room on the 2nd floor. if they were all placed like that, then why would the killer even be the one able to break them down? why not have the survivors being able to tear them down then to create better loops?
by design, an intact Breakable Wall is supposed to be more of a hinderance to a killer, as it blocks off potential shortcuts - they want the killer to invest some time into prepping the map for later.
thats how the devs want them to work.
and they are beneficial to the killer, as without them there wouldnt be any shortcut at all (ignore the "reworked" maps here, as the maps themselves were created without BWs in mind, so their placement there isnt really great (they basically just filled the shortcuts they created earlier in an actual map balance update with a BW). it was a mere visual update after all, not a whole map balance rework - good examples for BW maps would be the Dead Dawg Saloon and Midwich)
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Yeah, I don't get breakable walls. There's only a handful that I'll break, ones that clearly need to be broken to make a completely safe loop unsafe. Maybe I'm missing something, but they just seem like they were added to be speed bumps for killers in a game where the Survivors don't need them.
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Debuting alongside the next chapter, we are pleased to announce a new feature that will allow Killers to shape the map as they hunt down Survivors: Breakable walls. This mechanic is available to all Killers.
Breakable walls appear in preset locations, much like pallets. Unlike pallets, a Survivor cannot interact with them in any way. The Killer, however, can walk up to one of these walls and break it down whenever they like.
For now, they will be exclusive to the upcoming map, where we’ll be experimenting with different uses. Breaking some may make a strong window loop weaker, allowing you to catch up much quicker. Others might open up new paths to get around the map faster. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how everyone uses them to see what works best before adding them to existing maps.
When breakable walls are added to other maps, they will appear differently to suit the Realm’s theme. Although they may look different from one map to the next, we will make sure that they are easily recognizable so it is clear which walls can and can’t be broken at a glance.
Additionally, any Perk or Add-on that affects pallet breaking speed will be extended to breakable walls. Killer Powers that can break pallets will also be able to break these walls.
Is actually what was said (source). Nowhere there does it mention that they "wanted the walls to favor killers, not survivors".
The only thing they lied about here is that they don't look different from one map to another. Everything that they said the walls would do, they currently do, across all the maps that have them (to varying levels of success).
[this isn't me saying that they're good/bad, btw, just me clarifying that they said nothing of the sort.]
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Overreacting again because of Breakable Walls. While I dislike the Breakable Walls as a whole and think the Devs should abandon those, the Walls on the now reworked Maps are not a big problem.
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For some reason Dead Dawg Saloon is the only map that has a breakable wall in the shack and it's so weird. What's so special about Dead Dawg's shack that requires it to have a breakable wall? Why not give it to the shacks on other maps?
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ScottJund idea to reverse breakable walls is probably the best approach to the situation.
Making it so survivors have to build these breakable walls in order to strengthen a particular loop or structure unless the killer breaks it introduces another objective into the game whilst adding another way to play.
But that'll take too much effort, so they'll never do it.
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disagree, breakable walls is great idea as long as you get a great advantage breaking them. for now, I was able to hunt survivors going through the window because I made a new path.
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If you break them at the beginning of the match, that is time not spent getting to gens, which gives Survivors more time to pop gens before you ever engage them.
If you break them during a chase, you basically have to drop the chase to break them, letting the Survivor get away.
If you break them in between chases, that's more time for Survivors to get to stronger positions while you practice your "FBI OPEN UP" skills.
They are a global nerf to Killers by forcing them to spend time interacting with a new mechanic or get punished for ignoring it.
Breakable Walls are an answer to a problem that no longer existed, so the Devs reintroduced the problem in order to use their new answer.
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