The stats for no bloodlust may be skewed.
Since bloodlust is getting disabled temporarily, many players will likely play differently for the duration. Survivors will use more "5-gen looping builds" and killer players will likely use more chase-oriented killers like nurse or blight. I hope BHVR takes this into account when looking over the stats. I would like to believe they know what they're doing, but they've challenged my faith before.
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why wouldnt they use "5-gen looping builds" now and not before? and if people start playing more nurse and blight thats good imo because those are fun to vs.. this wont change anything imo except making killers actually realize when they are playing bad instead of "oh well it doesnt matter, bloodlust will get me a down anyways" ..besides most maps rn are mostly killer sided so im happy to see bloodlust get removed.. and before i get hated for being survivor bias, i play 99% killer
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They should take statistics from all ranks. Any changes they make to the game also need to consider new and casual players, they’re just as much a part of the player base as anyone else.
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Thats why you should play normal. Like, lets get those extreme Scenarios:
Every Killer plays Nurse during that weekend. The Devs see that Killers win a lot even without Bloodlust, so it gets removed. And now we have a bunch of M1-Killers who might suffer (I dont think so to be honest, I play mostly M1-Killers and I rarely need to get to BL1).
Or, the other scenario:
Survivors all run the best Toolboxes, play Builds which let them do Gens as fast as possible and on top, only skilled 4 man SWFs play. Killers will lose a lot of games, so BHVR might think that Bloodlust needs to stay and maybe buff it.
Sure, unrealistic, but it should show that the way how players treat this test might be important. So I will just play the usual Killers and the same Survivor Build as always.
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Would be ideal if everyone played normally, but that just isn't gonna happen.
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i hope they don't look at it for each killer the same.
killers like huntress, billy, nurse, ect whose power resets bloodlust don't really benefit from it too often.
Then there are killers like legion and trapper who are affected by it regularly since their power doesn't interact with bloodlust. If they remove blood lust it will only make these killers weaker and that is definitely not needed. Also if they make beast of prey give blood lust and remove the effect when not using it i will be pissed.
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I mean, they're gonna be able to tell if people are playing differently. They can track everything in the game..
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Sure, there will be people who try stuff. Same like Killer Mains who went on the PTB where Ruin got nerfed with insane Toolboxes (old Toolboxes at this point, like 4 Commodius with BNPs) just to "prove a point". But the very least that can be done is that as many people as possible play normally.
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They should balance around high skill, not high rank. Rank is pretty useless.
Even then, though, you can't lose sight of the little guy when you're balancing. Balancing for the best players will not necessarily result in a game that's balanced for all players. Like, just as a goofy example, let's imagine adding a killer perk to the game that allows you to Mori any downed survivor that hasn't already moonwalked for at least 20m. In high skill matches, that perk would be useless and therefore not close to being a balance issue. In low skill matches, though, this would be absolutely busted.
Edit: This is yet another reason why MMR should be really good for balance, if they get it right. Not only should matchmaking be better, but it should allow the devs to better determine how perks, add-ons, killers, etc. are performing for players of low/average/high skill. I bet they don't have a great way of doing that right now.
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Oh yeah, this was just meant as a thought experiment to show why balancing only around the best players isn't necessarily the best idea. Bloodlust isn't nearly that significant. Still, in general, I do think it's risky to make balancing decisions based off of higher-skill matches only. It's even more risky when you're trying to evaluate skill and performance with a rank-based matchmaking system. So, at this point, I really think they should be looking at the balance for all ranks while also trying to remove any exploits, etc. that are used at high rank.
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I partially disagree.
There are clearly many stats they can track, but based on recent statements by the Devs, there seems to be things they don't track which are crucial to understanding other data sets. OoO being the primary example here: Ethan stated OoO is statistically fine due to how often the player with the perk gets killed. That leads me to believe they are not looking at the performance of the rest of the team, who benefit more from the OoO than the player using it.
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I mean just because that's all Ethan mentioned doesn't mean that's all they've checked. There's also a big difference because they're looking to change a huge mechanic in the game AND running a population wide experiment that you can't opt out from. I'm pretty sure they're going to look at a lot of stats.
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Oh, I am totally sure they will look at multiple stats. I am just saying that PUBLICALLY they have also shown that they don't always look at lateral stats and causalities.
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It gives an insight to their thinking, which shows that they don't spend much time playing the game and feeling it for themselves, relying on spreadsheets and statistics for balancing the game. Then they just flat out ignore players that do play the game. This is primarily why this game has so many unfun features for both killers and survivors. These features certainly do not play a significant role in the overall balance of the game, but they are things that affect player retention. They're also not very good at talking to a large group of people and addressing concerns.
3 days is not enough to get any truly meaningful statistics. Changing bloodlust will change how players play the game. I guarantee whatever effect they get from the 3 days would absolutely level out over time. It's like trying to figure out the chances of a coin landing on heads, but you only flip it 5 times. It's just a waste of time and there are many other very serious issues with this game that they could be focusing on at the moment, especially issues related to sound and visuals and performance.
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As someone who's played a lot of hag, I'm wondering how hard this'll even her out. Before hag was a strong as she has a now, bloodlust was one of the few things that helped her out on maps where she struggles ( ie wide open maps, corn, etc). Those maps can make playing hag feel like a wet mop and you end up wasting a lot of time on poor chases simply because they're aren't a lot of great places to leave traps. That's not to say hag players relied on bloodlust; it's more that in instances where the hags power is lackluster due to map design, bloodlust kind of filled in the gaps so that you had a chance. I'd love to see how hag players perform on maps like rotten fields without bloodlust.
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@xenotimebong I hate to tell you but, that's not how competitive balancing works. You have to balance at the top tier of play and then the lower tiers have a really high ceiling to improve on and reach over time. Every single competitive game balances around their most skilled players and by default it balances the game for the new players and anybody in between. It also helps seperate the different skill gaps better. As much as I hate being that guy, they should take no consideration of new player experience when balancing. If they do it right, the new player experience will be fine from any high tier balance changes they make.
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I hate to tell you, but this isn’t a game that is designed to be competitive and the devs clearly have no intentions of balancing it around competitive players.
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My friend, there is no one with any authority at BHVR that has any grasp of statistics as a discipline.
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You attach WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much value to this "test" of theirs.
Remember that MMR system? ItS WoRKinG iN ThE BaCkgRounD...
Or how about those 2 tests on server hit validation, boy that sure was....implemented and...made things better right?
Also they totally tested door regression and found it to be unfun, so I guess screw the many players if the small devteam says its unfun right?
And then that beautiful hatchet hitbox rework, absolute classic.
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There is no way to run a double-blind experiment in games. It's not like the devs can leave Bloodlust on for some and not others and just hope nobody notices the difference.
So yes, the stats may be skewed. Unfortunately, there's no way to avoid that, and the devs know it all too well. It comes with knowing statistics.
At least one of the devs is a physicist. The only people with a better grasp on statistics than physicists are statisticians - and even then I wouldn't be so sure.
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What exactly does he do there?
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bathing in money all day, like the rest, thats about it
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I think he's part of the balance department, but I'm not sure.
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Apparently, according to my massive sample size of the one statistician in my life - "a lot of physicists have a crappy grasp of statistics, and a bunch of them like to just make it up as they need it". They may be biased, they say physicists think they know everything and refuse to listen to actual statisticians. Probably similar to how nurses tend to think doctors don't know crap and never listen to them, lol.
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I think the majority of the playerbase will.
Even though there was a message in game, a lot will forget about it or not pay attention.
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Not in my experience.
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@xenotimebong if you think dead by daylight isnt competitive I think you don't understand what the game is. It started out as a casual solo game and as soon as they introduced swf this game became competitive. Now there is more pressure on killers than ever before to get kills before the gens all finish. When you have a game that's 1 vs 4 it's inherently going to turn into a competitive game. Beyond that though, there's ranks due to the fact this game is competitive.
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Blight and nurse. Yea right him hopin on spirit nothing but Moris every game baby. WOOOOOOOOOOO LETS GO BABY
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This is just a hypothetical, but what if they didn't tell anyone about the change? That way by the time people realised, it would be too late.
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This was already talk about in another discussion and it was stated that they would loose a lot more trust than they already have and no one would believe anything they said.
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And then you'll never get new players to help fuel the game - because it's too much for brand new players.
Again.
This is why there needs to be two modes - Competitive for people like you and Causal for people like me.
I used to be red rank killer and took such a long break that they deranked me to rank 18 and I still get try hards when I really just want everyone to have a fun game and not a sweaty one.
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Then I'll be waiting for the game to die down with it not going to have as many people staying to play the game and buy the items so they can further their game.
After a while of many new players not wanting to play because they might not have a buddy that's played since the start - and literally has no clue what to do besides what the tutorial shows. ( Which is mediocre at best. )
I came into the game maybe a year after it had been out - maybe more - don't bother to remember really. I just know that Stranger Things got me interested and then I fell in love with the rest after.
But 2400+ hours in.. I don't really know what to actually tell you; I can't give high input - just what I feel.
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So my guess is that BHVR has plans to make other changes BUT NEEDS to remove bloodlust in order to have the other changes balanced. Having the killer progressively get faster makes it hard to enact other changes that may be static. I have heard other streamers and people talking about how bloodlust makes it difficult to make other changes.
Just a thought...
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