Twins Changes: Survivors Can Kidnap Victor for only 45 Seconds
... Then Charlotte can recall him or chase that survivor (because she'll see the aura).
Hmm. That's the fix, huh?
I'm trying to be constructive here, but it seems like this fix is really underwhelming and isn't going to address the main problem. Scoring Victor hits didn't feel impactful enough: that's why most Survivors were happy to just leave Victor on them. Knocking out 1 survivor from doing gens was a small price to pay to literally turn Charlotte into an M1 Killer with no power.
Some suggestions that made sense were:
Make the Survivors deal with him or go down in 20 seconds. I could see 40-45 as maybe good enough... but it really should be an auto-down.
Make Victor's Aura visible at all times.
This killer still leaves all the choices up to the Survivor. They have more ways to counterplay Victor than to lose to him. They can decide how long they want to leave Victor on. What happens when you latch Victor to a really good looper? You still have to spend 45 seconds as a useless M1 killer... and then recall him as an anti-bullying measure because you're not going to get a Survivor who's better than you.
It is nice they are dealing with lockers and doing something involving the difficulty of dealing with small loops - sort of. I'll reserve judgment on that part until I see it in action, but assuming small loops or trees are no longer difficult to play around, I think people will just resort to running around Victor instead. If you've ever tried to hit someone running in circles around you with Huntress or Deathslinger with your hatchet/shot, you'll get it. Then imagine not being able to M1.
My overall first impression (as I said, I will reserve judgement overall) is still that this killer will be the weakest in DBD - but maybe she'll earn a spot on the same tier level behind the worst killers. I think this killer will be a blast to play against, because of how much knowledgeable and competent survivors will be able to shut this killer down. No idea who's actually going to play them after 2 weeks though.
Anyway, just my opinion.
Comments
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I was expecting a lot more improvements that they just didn't get. This killer is gonna get bullied really bad. This is probably the weakest killer they have released in quite a while.
They're essentially gonna have a 45 second cooldown on their power every time they use it. This is gonna be abused so hard.
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That's a 50 hour rank 15 fix. Being able to kidnap Victor for 45 seconds at a time was the problem in and of itself. Certainly not the solution. There's zero lethality to Charlotte. That's literally why you would kidnap Victor in the first place. It wasn't just about how long you could do it for. It had a lot to do with the fact that it was optimal to do so in the first place. They still haven't addressed that, and 45 seconds is beyond generous. That's 1 1/2 gens.
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They should just let Charlotte cancel the power and have Victor return to her.
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It's definitely the weakest killer they've had in a while. It's the first one I probably won't buy tbh.
I'll wait till I can get it with shards or something.
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The best comparison I can come up with is Plague.
Plague and Twins both have one thing in common: Survivor can choose to deny the killer the use of their power.
If you choose to do this against Plague: every survivor has to play the game wounded, no survivor can heal, every survivor is far easier to detect, every survivor randomly gets hindered... and Plague STILL gets to choose to use their power 1 time. The power being impactful enough to easily win the game.
If you choose to do this against Twins: one survivor can't work on gens, one survivor has to play the game wounded, one survivor can't heal, one survivor is not easier to detect for 45 seconds, one survivor doesn't get hindered... and Charlotte's only 'counterplay' is to give up and recall Victor after 45 seconds.
Which consequence feels more impactful?
Now, I admit, Plague does have a slower speed and that does count for something... but c'mon. Chase a survivor long enough, they'll puke and make up for that. The difference is just night and day.
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They got "buffed" so they can pull survivors out of lockers like every other killer in the game. Still no lethality from a healthy state, and still takes a year to actually hook a survivor. It's so bad.
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"Knocking out 1 survivor from doing gens was a small price to pay to literally turn Charlotte into an M1 Killer with no power."
As a Pig player, I strongly disagree. I would MORE than gladly trade my power if it means that there is one person on the team who is voluntarily locking themself into being only marginally more productive than a Rank 20.
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Couple of things:
1.) Which power would you trade? Yes, maybe the Bear Trap part might be reasonable, though assuming every survivor has to visit 2 and a half jigsaw boxes on average after their first hook, I think Pig's power is stronger overall... in the amount of time it forces survivors to not do gens and put themselves at risk. Even if it feels bad when they rando the first box, they'll just as often spend 2 minutes running to all 4.
2.) Even with Bear Traps gone, she's not just an M1 Killer. She has crouching - turning certain low-wall safe loops on every other killer into unsafe loops is noteworthy - stealth and lunging as well in addition to M1ing. So it's not quite Apples to Apples.
3.) Even with all this in consideration, it seems most people agree, Pig isn't very strong right now. She's not bad, but she could use some gentle buffs.
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Yeah honestly Victor catching someone in a locker should just down them and Charlotte still has to come pick them up.
She's extremely time inefficient in a meta where killers are already in the negative on time. "Gimmicky" is a term that summarizes her a good bit I'd say. A lot of extra and unnecessary steps, taking the long way around to complete the same thing.
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1) All of it. I would go down to being a 115% M1 killer.
2) See above.
3) I know Pig isn't strong. Not the point I'm trying to make.
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I'd agree the 45 second change would be enough if survivor could not perform any actions at all. Saving, vaulting, dropping pallets etc Edit: also you could give the killer 5% haste while survivor has a monkey on his back
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OK, fair enough - you're essentially saying you think Pig is worse than Twins as is. Don't think you're gonna get too many people agreeing with you, but you're entitled to your opinion.
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No I'm not. I'm saying that as someone who plays a Killer who tries to keep Survivors off gens, I believe the prospect of a Survivor voluntarily choosing to never do gens in an attempt to deny the Killer their power is a bad idea for that Survivor and bound to work out in the Killer's favor.
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they should reduce the timer to 25 seconds and apply aura-reading as soon as Victor jumps on a survivor. That would help resolve the issue. I have feeling that locker will still hard counter victor because victor will be next to a locker so teammates will just kill victor similar to how people sometimes save teammates from trappers traps. SWF bully ego is going to be through the roof.
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The truth is, everything in those changes is just a hard nerf to them, the only good thing to come out of it (which really can still be counter) is making the entity blocker last longer when you down someone at the gates when victor was on them
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Honestly I think it would be fine if Victor did real visual impairment to the survivor to stop them from being able to loop. Maybe blurry vision like the clown. An addon could make surviors have reduced control like when the killer is carrying a survivor.
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Yeah instant aura reading on Victor pounce and the survivor goes down if they don't remove him in 20 seconds sounds decent to me. Locker grab by Victor should simply down the survivor honestly. If they want him to hold them in then it needs to require a teammate to rescue you while highlighting your aura to your teammates, no timer involved.
Even 20 seconds is almost an entire gen for the killer gone per pounce. I don't think they realize how much more tight time is for the killer than it is the survivor.
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Victor should get IN the locker with that Survivor, but only remove 1 health state after a 10 second animation of them fighting it out. Effectively locking that Survivor in place for a bit, dealing damage, and allowing the big girl a chance to get close enough to take advantage of it all.
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Just goes to show what skill level the devs that playtest, or at least balance killers just out of the workshop, are playing at. At least, with this killer in particular.
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I agree broadly.
Victor should act like a sorta 'deep wound'/'mangled' thing as in he slows you down significantly AND if you don't get him off you'll drop down. Hell, have him drag a downed surv towards charlotte.
Seriously, the prospect of getting hooked/pseudo-morid instantly seems to be the only thing in this game to get some survivors to change their MO (see people only getting RTBs off when they want to leave)
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I actually agree. I'm console so no ptb experience but plenty of killers are better with their m1 than trying to use their power. Plus her speed is 115... So when victor is gone for 45 secs the team can only be 75% effective on gens AND you get control of your 115 killer while this is happening. Plus if the accost him for longer you get a beacon to an insta down
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