http://dbd.game/killswitch
BHVR, Make Losing More Fun!
Dying State:
-If the dying survivor has a med-kit, the survivor can recover at twice the speed while consuming 1 charge per second whenever they are holding the item key. Add-ons that speed your healing such as Medical Scissors can make the recover speed go even faster. However, they cannot recover pass the 95% mark with a med-kit and still require a teammate to heal them out of dying state.
Reasoning: This gives the dying survivor more variety and more options which in my opinion, will make dying state more interesting and less boring when you have a med-kit in hand. Trust me, this wouldn't make survivors OP killer mains, I play both sides and most of the time, you'll end up picking up the survivor for a quick hook.
New Visuals Effects:
I recently made a thread about a new dying state effect as your bleed out timer decreases. Basically your screen will get blurry as your bleed out timer reaches 0 and your screen will slowly begin to get dark as your bleed out decreases past the 1 minute mark. In case you haven't seen the thread, here are the visual effects whenever your bleed out timer reaches certain milestones.
Time Remaining in Bleed Out Timer:
4 Minutes
Time Remaining in Bleed Out Timer:
1 Minute
Time Remaining in Bleed Out Timer:
10 Seconds
Time Remaining in Bleed Out Timer:
1 Second
Hook Phases:
-Attempt escape is now a continuous animation such as repairing a generator.
-Each second of the animation will give you a 1% chance to unhook yourself instead of a 4% chance.
-Assuming you have a fresh hook meter, you can struggle for a total of 12 seconds before entering phase 2 (Struggle).
Note: Probability odds for this system and the old system are roughly the same. If you want me to display my math, ask and I will because I do not want a wall of text.
Reasoning: More realistic since if you're trying to unhook yourself, you probably won't be taking breaks in between attempts. Sometimes your attempt escape action would drain a lot of your phase 2 (Struggle) timer if you attempted to escape when your hook meter is about to hit phase 2 (Struggle), this system will not do that since you're only losing 1 second in your phase 2 (Struggle) timer.
-Phase 2 (Struggle) now have skill checks that appear every 5 seconds.
Reasoning: Extends the lifespan of your keyboard or controller. Additionally, it's now more easier to look at your surroundings.
Civil criticism is always appreciated.
@Lowbei (SMM) Salt Management Mod
Comments
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Interesting concepts. I do understand what you are going for, but I think most people would think using a med-kit to recover, especially if it's an incomplete action (because they can't fully recover), somewhat useless. I do get that it would help you recover faster, though I think most people would rather use their med-kit after they've been picked up. If they added an ultra-rare add-on that lets you recover fully (like one of the insta-heal add-ons, except instead of full heal, it would bring yourself from dying to injured before the add-on is consumed; though incidentally, I tried to use an insta-heal add-on on myself, and it didn't work) that would be fine too. That way, there are more options to pick yourself up instead of the 2 perks survivors have.
The blurred visual effects is actually something I had envisioned for a buff to Knock Out in addition to slower crawling speed (because you were given a concussion, disrupting your focus).
Regarding your hook changes, how would slippery meat apply to your unhooking changes? Would is just be slightly extra luck while attempting, or allow the survivor to attempt for a longer duration? If it's the former, that would just make it copy-paste with Up The Ante. If it's the latter, that is fine.
For the Struggle phase, I think in order to hold on, you should be holding the primary action button (M1) to get skill checks and release M1 to give up struggling. EDIT: succeeding skill checks would slightly add more time to struggle, while failing skill checks would slightly lose some time to struggle.
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Small question - since the devs had said recovering is a healing action, is it affected by healing perks (such as Nurse's Calling, Coulrophobia, Sloppy Butcher, Botany Knowledge, etc)?
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I think this is a good idea but with some tweaks as @CoolAKn suggested and perhaps this would be the perfect way to adjust insta heals.
The Styptic agent would bring you from dying to injured state and would consume the medkit completely.
The syringe would bring you to full health while consuming the medkit completely.
To balance it out the medkit would need at least 4 charges base in them in order to grant the full effects.You could consider that the 4 seconds you'd need to properly prepare the ingredients/injection.
Now if you didn't have the 4 charges you'd suffer some sort of penalty for x seconds based upon how many charges you were short.
I'll edit the charges missing stuff in later along with perhaps tyng Botany Knowledge in somehow to make it more useful.
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I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
- My vision is really blurry... weeee?
- Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.
Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
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Consider the following please:Dreamnomad said:I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
- My vision is really blurry... weeee?
- Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.
Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
-More visual effects that make the game more interesting and fun when in a bad situation.
-More options while in dying state.
-More fun hook changes that give you more control when losing.
Additionally, why are you so worried about missing a skill check while on the hook? Are skill checks difficult for you because they are certainly not for me. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?
Overall, this just makes the game more fun and interesting when in a bad situation.0 -
@Nickenzie said:
Yes, make Losing more fun! I often see survivors get really upset whenever they are tunneled, slugged, camped, and etc because well, it's not fun! So, I'm gonna suggest some ideas on how to make losing be more enjoyable.Sooooo.... This is a good theory. Make the game suck less when you lose (should apply to killer and survivor). Everything after this point though, not sold. Won't make a a difference.
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Again, more interesting options and effects will make the game more fun when in these certain situations. Yes, my ideas aren't perfect but will still add some interesting moments when they would rather be infuriating.thesuicidefox said:@Nickenzie said:
Yes, make Losing more fun! I often see survivors get really upset whenever they are tunneled, slugged, camped, and etc because well, it's not fun! So, I'm gonna suggest some ideas on how to make losing be more enjoyable.Sooooo.... This is a good theory. Make the game suck less when you lose (should apply to killer and survivor). Everything after this point though, not sold. Won't make a a difference.
Additionally, if losing is more fun and less frustrating then the killer can receive more buffs to make them more fun.0 -
Question 1:CoolAKn said:Regarding your hook changes, how would slippery meat apply to your unhooking changes? Would is just be slightly extra luck while attempting, or allow the survivor to attempt for a longer duration? If it's the former, that would just make it copy-paste with Up The Ante. If it's the latter, that is fine.
How would slippery meat apply to your unhooking changes?
Slippery Meat will add 12 more seconds to your struggling animation before entering phase 2 (Struggle). This gives you 24 seconds of struggling to unhook yourself.
Question 2:
Up The Ante?
Up The Ante and all luck bonuses will be reduced by 75% since we reduced the 4% to 1% which is a 75% decrease in luck. Having Up The Ante tier 3 with 3 tokens will give you a 10% chance to unhook yourself very second if luck WASN'T reduced which is OP.1 -
i think these are great. nickenzie puts more thought into constructive changes than anyone on either forum.
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In general, I think the idea of making losing more fun is a great idea. The community I feel sometimes forget this a game, with people on both sides that can have fun not necessarily at the expense of the other.
Specific counter-points to OP:
1) blurring vision makes it only harder, for example to hide from the killer when downed and to find hatch if possible. Assuming the survivor is going to die, these things offer hope. Removing that hope for a visual effect is not more fun or interesting and actively hurts the already soon-to-be dead survivor.
2) If slippery meat doubled hook-stage 1 time, it'd become a really strong perk that allowed more time for unhooking before stage 2, offered increased Kobe chance without any real consequence, and severely punishes any killer (proxy) camping by allowing more time to be on the hook. Regardless of better or worse, in short, I'd see no downside to this perk. That to me goes against the survivor perk mentality of the devs (Deliverance has a requirement i.e. safe hook, and a punishment i.e. broken)
3) It wasn't clarified if the skill checks replace repeatedly pressing a button to stay alive. I'd hate to die simply because of a missed skill check, which rarely happens but does happen - I imagine it'd happen moreso if I also had to keep pressing a button.
My suggestions:
1) When downed, give survivors a pebble to throw (pebble is a pretty terrible albeit very fun perk). It's just silly enough, with a dash of hope of useful that I think survivors would relish it. And seriously how affected are killers by pebbles? Moreso if someone is downed and you know it's something they could do - it's like dead hard and no mither; if they have no mither they have dead hard. Makes it moot a lot of the times.
2) Change phase 2 hook so that constant tapping is removed. Like the OP, have skill checks but make it a three strikes and you're out to forgive some missed skill checks - anyways visually there's so many spikes yet the survivor only holds back 1. Have some stab them in a leg or a hand for each missed skill check before finally taking them.0 -
Losing being fun – isnt this all a bit millennial / happy clappy?
Back in my day you spat the dirt out of your mouth and tried again...
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@Rex_Huin said:
Losing being fun – isnt this all a bit millennial / happy clappy?Back in my day you spat the dirt out of your mouth and tried again...
Back in your day, you lobbied for participation trophies because you couldn't handle the fact that your children were not the best or even special.
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Definitely interesting.
Wonder how such a blur effect would work for injured survivors aswell
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No I have to disagree with the skill check on phase 2 , we have enough lag problems on console as it is and just tapping the button doesn’t work sometimes if the lag is bad you just die anyway even if you didn’t mess upNickenzie said:
Consider the following please:Dreamnomad said:I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
- My vision is really blurry... weeee?
- Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.
Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
-More visual effects that make the game more interesting and fun when in a bad situation.
-More options while in dying state.
-More fun hook changes that give you more control when losing.
Additionally, why are you so worried about missing a skill check while on the hook? Are skill checks difficult for you because they are certainly not for me. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?
Overall, this just makes the game more fun and interesting when in a bad situation.1 -
@lyric said:
Nickenzie said:
Dreamnomad said:I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
* My vision is really blurry... weeee?
* Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
Consider the following please:
-More visual effects that make the game more interesting and fun when in a bad situation.
-More options while in dying state.
-More fun hook changes that give you more control when losing.Additionally, why are you so worried about missing a skill check while on the hook? Are skill checks difficult for you because they are certainly not for me. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?
Overall, this just makes the game more fun and interesting when in a bad situation.
No I have to disagree with the skill check on phase 2 , we have enough lag problems on console as it is and just tapping the button doesn’t work sometimes if the lag is bad you just die anyway even if you didn’t mess up
You will get more optimization this year, stop preventing development of the game just because of "lag problems"
Skillchecks are clientside and are only affect by bad framerate, not by latency
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Uhh, i'm not gonna have more fun by making my vision blurred.
It's an opinion and i'm just 1 person, but just saying i can't see the "fun" part.2 -
Skill checks while struggling on the hook won’t become a thing for the very reason I’m saying just watch and see for yourself and just because you want it doesn’t make it the development of the game unless they say it. There are too many times where the frame rates drop even with optimization they’re wanting to input it’s still not as good as pc and they can’t prevent it from happening , I would much rather see skill checks while disarming traps or searching through chests and hitting greater skill checks gives you a chance at a better item or missing checks while disarming injures , I feel those are more appropriate changes until everything works as intendedDeadByFlashlight said:@lyric said:
Nickenzie said:
Dreamnomad said:I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
* My vision is really blurry... weeee?
* Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
Consider the following please:
-More visual effects that make the game more interesting and fun when in a bad situation.
-More options while in dying state.
-More fun hook changes that give you more control when losing.Additionally, why are you so worried about missing a skill check while on the hook? Are skill checks difficult for you because they are certainly not for me. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?
Overall, this just makes the game more fun and interesting when in a bad situation.
No I have to disagree with the skill check on phase 2 , we have enough lag problems on console as it is and just tapping the button doesn’t work sometimes if the lag is bad you just die anyway even if you didn’t mess up
You will get more optimization this year, stop preventing development of the game just because of "lag problems"
Skillchecks are clientside and are only affect by bad framerate, not by latency
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I simply think that if you are getting tunneled and or camped fireworks should shoot off in the area and a small marching band should circle the hook, banging drums and blowing horns! Man I'd love losing then!
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I disagree with the Visual Effects.
Yes, it makes it more believable, but we have to think about people with low end PCs (and consoles). They already have to play on low (some also have the resolution set to 0) and this blur would make it even worse.
Some people also have problems with motion blur (it makes them sick), so this would also be a problem.1 -
@Nickenzie said:
Dreamnomad said:I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
* My vision is really blurry... weeee?
* Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
Consider the following please:
-More visual effects that make the game more interesting and fun when in a bad situation.
-More options while in dying state.
-More fun hook changes that give you more control when losing.Additionally, why are you so worried about missing a skill check while on the hook? Are skill checks difficult for you because they are certainly not for me. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?
Overall, this just makes the game more fun and interesting when in a bad situation.
I think you and I have very different definitions of "fun". Blurry vision is the opposite of fun. Dying randomly because you missed a skill check is not fun. The med kit while dying thing? Meh, whatever. It would make 0 difference in most games and again... not fun.
Most of these changes feel like nerfs to survivors being sold as "fun". My vision gets all blurry, now it's harder to communicate with my team what the killer is doing! Yeah, fun! Ooops, I missed a skill check and died! (massive buff to unnerving presence btw) Yeah, fun! What do the survivors get in compensation? You can blow your med kit for no reason when in the dying state. My biggest objection is the use of the word "fun". If you didn't try to sneak nerfs in and sell it as "fun" then I wouldn't have wasted my time on this thread. None of this crap is going to happen anyway, so daydream all you want.
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@Dreamnomad said:
My vision gets all blurry, now it's harder to communicate with my team what the killer is doing!You shouldn't be able to communicate with your team in the first place, but that doesn't fit into your argument, does it?
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@Orion said:
@Dreamnomad said:
My vision gets all blurry, now it's harder to communicate with my team what the killer is doing!You shouldn't be able to communicate with your team in the first place, but that doesn't fit into your argument, does it?
I'm perfectly happy to de-rail this thread talking about voice communication if you want to.
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@Dreamnomad said:
@Orion said:
@Dreamnomad said:
My vision gets all blurry, now it's harder to communicate with my team what the killer is doing!You shouldn't be able to communicate with your team in the first place, but that doesn't fit into your argument, does it?
I'm perfectly happy to de-rail this thread talking about voice communication if you want to.
No, that's fine, keep making arguments based on false premises.
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Yeah, you should just calm down and stop getting so heated, these are just ideas. The skill checks won't be affected by debuffs such as Unnerving Presence and Huntress Lullaby. Additionally, many people been asking for skill checks instead of a constant button to hit since it can extend the lifetime of controllers and keyboards. Again, if you are worried about missing a skill check:Dreamnomad said:@Nickenzie said:
Dreamnomad said:I fail to see how any of this makes losing more fun. That is the entire premise of your post.
* My vision is really blurry... weeee?
* Now if I fail a skill check on the hook, I die! Go me!
Seriously, what part of anything you posted is "fun"? Here is an example of what might make the dying state more fun. Instead of just sitting still holding a button to progress your recovery, you could have a Tetris screen show up and your progress is based on when you destroy rows. If you set the difficulty high enough and get 4 rows at once then you get to go to the injured state.Now I'm not actually suggesting players on a hook or bleeding out should play some kind of mini-game like Tetris. I'm simply making a point that your suggestions do absolutely nothing to make losing more fun.
Consider the following please:
-More visual effects that make the game more interesting and fun when in a bad situation.
-More options while in dying state.
-More fun hook changes that give you more control when losing.Additionally, why are you so worried about missing a skill check while on the hook? Are skill checks difficult for you because they are certainly not for me. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?
Overall, this just makes the game more fun and interesting when in a bad situation.
I think you and I have very different definitions of "fun". Blurry vision is the opposite of fun. Dying randomly because you missed a skill check is not fun. The med kit while dying thing? Meh, whatever. It would make 0 difference in most games and again... not fun.
Most of these changes feel like nerfs to survivors being sold as "fun". My vision gets all blurry, now it's harder to communicate with my team what the killer is doing! Yeah, fun! Ooops, I missed a skill check and died! (massive buff to unnerving presence btw) Yeah, fun! What do the survivors get in compensation? You can blow your med kit for no reason when in the dying state. My biggest objection is the use of the word "fun". If you didn't try to sneak nerfs in and sell it as "fun" then I wouldn't have wasted my time on this thread. None of this crap is going to happen anyway, so daydream all you want.
However I will bite with my rebuttal, lag is a ongoing issue and there's nothing much that you can do. You can also argue that the struggle button can lag and also kill you instantly.Nickenzie said:
Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with generators and practice more often?0 -
Put king k rool in the game as a killer and have the SSBU version of gangplank galleon play while he's chasing someone. That would make the game 10x more fun for me ♡^♡
I like the dark screen idea although I would find it more boring than fun. I hate skill checks too much to "enjoy" them on hooks.
You want fun while losing? Make unique game modes that promote and encourage it.
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This is more of an immersion thing than an enjoyment thing. Though those two intertwine, I don’t think immersion can make losing fun. Not unless it’s impactful. There would need to be no bleedout death screen. It would need to be blurry and show the results right there and then.
That sounds cooler to me tbh, seeing that blurry live feed of your corpse on the ground after a mori or bleedout while your results are displayed on screen would really add weight to dying. It would give the game more feeling to it. More flavor.
Just my opinion though.1
