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The two viable Killer builds against the strongest Survivors
Standard Build- Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer/BBQ
Variation Build- Ruin/Undying/Surge/BBQ (Killers that down with an M1 only)
This build is overkill most of the time with mediocre Survivors. But in the case you encounter some actually skilled players, this is what will give you a chance at winning on Killer.
Comments
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What about Corrupt/BBQ/Pop?
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^ or just bbq pop is enough
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Its too weak. Pop wastes a lot of time on most Killer when you see a gen across the map its not worth it. Corrupt is too luck based. Sometimes you get bad gens and they barely notice it. And sometimes they all immerse and you don't get your first chase until its almost over
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Don't use tracking perks if you're talking about taking on the strongest survivors out there. BBQ does nothing for you if you have good game sense. There are only so many gens survivors can be on.
My tournament builds usually go something like Corrupt/Ruin/Undying/NOED or Corrupt/Ruin/Devour/Haunted. Tinkerer/Surveillance is the one exception I'd make. It's good if you have a very mobile killer, but wasted on a killer like Pyramid Head
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Those builds feel like there's a lot of anti-synergy. I can't imagine them working in tournaments.
Corrupt encourages the Survivors to look for you totems because they want something to do while they're waiting it out. With Ruin, you want Survivors to work on generators early game because after your first hook there's usually a generator with a lot of progress on it that you can interrupt for massive regression.
With Undying, you don't want to stack a bunch of hex perks because Survivors tend to go cleanse crazy. In all likelihood, they'll cleanse all five totems in the trial regardless of how many hexes you bring (because the common practice against Undying is to cleanse even the dull totems so hexes can't respawn). So don't run any extra hexes other than Ruin its overkill and won't matter
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I like my discordance, haunted ground, devour, pop Spirit myself.
You lose a few against really good squads. But you win a bunch as well.
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I don't think undying+ruin is gonna be good against good survivors, one map and half of your perks are gone 2 minutes into the game, this if only one survivor is doing totens
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Pop is kind of rubbish against good teams in my experience. If they split pressure and don’t keep greeding certain gens then Pop feels like it wastes more of your time than it saves. I’ve hated Pop for a while though so I’m definitely a bit biased. :D
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The same can kinda be said for ruin/undying, it depends on where they spawn which is again luck
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This man knows the deal. Corrupt/Pop is nasty and gets better with 3 gens setups. Undying/Ruin is kinda oppressive and I fell dirty using it, but attach Surveillance instead of tinkerer/surge/BBQ. With that you can monitor gens easily with that and some killers don't have to mobility or need the Undetectable status (stealth killers/doc).
You need to remind yourself that Ruin/Undying will buy you time and if you're not shooing survivors away from gens you won't get that value. For that I find Surveillance much better as not every killer has hillbilly's or blight's mobility.
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On Killers like Legion, Spirit, Freddy and Blight, you get a ton of value from BBQ. Although I can see the argument being made that Killers without mobility to follow up on BBQ are wasting a slot.
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i run Discordance and Pop.
the other two perk slots are different from killer to killer, as i try to use something that goes together well with their power. BBQ & Billy, Monitor and Nurses Slinger, etc.
i highly dislike the Ruin Undying Tinkerer combo, which is why i try to avoid running it as much as i can.
and it has worked so far.
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I do not have undying yet. but BBQ is great if you want easy bloodpoints.
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Thrilling Tremors is by far much more useful on Freddy. Run it with Pop and Thanatophobia and you will control the game 9 times out of 10.
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My go to on my huntress build depending upon if I got endgame challenges iron grip warden deerstalker light born and if it’s endgame challenges I use noed you’d be surprised how many kills and slugs I’ve got with iron grip on flashlight players or just at pallets because they can’t blind me more should use it
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More like best builds for noob-stomping. Hexes are unreliable against good teams, and any Survivor worth their salt can easily counter/juke BBQ.
Tinkerer is good, but it requires Ruin to get consistent value from it, so again, unreliable.
Surge is just bad. Only reliable on maps where gens are always clustered together, like The Game and Midwich. If you get a big map, you may as well have an empty perk slot.
Just my opinion.
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Child’s play. The best build is actually
Fire Up - This is obvious as gens are going to pop at some point. Guaranteed value.
Predator - Best info perk in the game. Survivors have to leave scratch marks if they wanna be fast.
Unrelenting - You recover super fast when you get bullied by spins and techs.
NOED - You get a free instadown before your totem pops.
You’re welcome new killers :)
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Sloppy-Corrupt-BBQ-Whispers
I like this more then Ruin-Undying-Tinkerer/Surge
Though I do need to relearn killers (cause I fell like I am missing something)
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Those are tournament meta builds. It's not a public match. Cleansing totems during Corrupt is completely counter-productive because Undying gives aura reading. You're essentially giving the killer their first chase by doing that. The whole point of running other hexes with Undying or Ruin is to gain benefit whether they choose to cleanse or not. You benefit either way. If they don't cleanse, you have Ruin/Undying/NOED. There's no scenario where that's a bad thing. If they do cleanse, they're spending a ton of time doing so. Plus, downing a survivor during Corrupt means you can usually camp someone until struggle with Ruin active around a 3 gen, so you probably lose a single gen and can tunnel someone out at 3 or 4 gens. That's massive.
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Ohhhh. Its that kind of tournament. The kind that has no class and is just filled with gen rushing and camping. No wonder I've never seen those builds run by Killers before I'd be bored out of my mind watching that
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It doesn't matter if you win or lose. Have fun. Stop putting the same build on all of your characters. There is no point in having multiple characters is you are going to do that. With both my killers and survivors, I use their three main perks, unless I absolutely don't like it, and one complimentary perk. If I don't like it, I replace it with a similar perk. That way each character has their own play to offer.
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I feel I create huge amounts of pressure running Coulrophobia, Forced Penance, Deathbound, and Sloppy on Clown, by slugging super frequently.
Chases end so quick once they’re injured, and I regularly interrupt heals they can’t finish in time when they become desperate and sick of being downed in one hit so quickly.
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No, hex perks are the last perks you'd want to take against strong survivors for obvious reasons.
Strongest builds are antiheal builds and maybe aggressive snowballing builds. anything else isn't very useful because it can be hard countered. Antiheal builds and snowballing builds drain a lot of resources from survivors and since most survivors' defences are finite, you will drain them all eventually and win.
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I'm seeing people frown on hexes and suggest anti-heal perks. I can assure you elite teams are sharing a medkit, have at least one Deliverance, and have two Adrenalines minimim. They aren't healing more than once in a 5-7 minute game. I guess we're talking about different survivors.
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... I was excited to see this thread till you said Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, and Surge.
- Good survivor's memorize totem spawns.
- Good survivor's know how to play around gen's and watch for the Killer - your stealth means nothing
- Good survivor's work on gen's opposite of each other, not next to each other.
Those are literally basic facts as well.
Also it depends on the Killer you are playing, any Killer that doesn't have anti-loop, and fast movment can't face strong survivors - period. As far as perks go you are tossing around; A Nurse's Calling, Bamboozle, Barbecue & Chili, Brutal Strength, Corrupt Intervention, Discordance, Franklin's Demise, I'm All Ears, Infectious Fright, Iron Maiden, Lightborn, Make Your Choice, Mindbreaker (since the update), Monitor & Abuse, Oppression, Pop Goes The Weasel, Sloppy Butcher, Stridor (Spirit Only), Surveilance, Thanatophobia, Thrilling Tremors, and Whispers.
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I only play Killers with High Mobility or Anti-Loop. Stuff like Blight, Freddy, Pyramid Head, Spirit, Legion and Deathslinger totally owns with versions of this build.
I've had games where the Survivors know all the totem spawns and spend the first part of the game cleansing all five totems to get rid of Ruin. And guess what? They lose. Because 2-3 minutes with no gen pressure gives me a massive advantage. I'm usually on my third hook before Ruin goes down and they haven't even finished a generator.
They're totally screwed if all four Survivors go on a cleansing spree early game. I think the only optimal way to beat Ruin/Undying is to have a designated totem cleanser with small game, detectives or a map. So Survivors are still pressuring generators while the totems are getting worked on. If all of them commit to totems before doing generators, it's like old Ruin on drugs: massive slowdown. And the funniest part is that even after they waste all that time on my totems I still have Surge for some gen regression.
Also, Tinkerer isn't really for stealth (the fact its awesome on Freddy, a Killer that has a lullaby whether he's undetectable or not should be a dead giveaway). It's actually just for helping you prioritize generators. So you know when you have to drop chases to protect gens. Ruin does the most work when you can pry a Survivor off a generator that's almost completed... sometimes it regresses to zero before they can get back to it.
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They weren't good survivors. A good survivor team ignore's Ruin. No amount of gen pressure you do can stop 3 Generator's being worked on at once. Hex perk's are entirely useless against a good group of survivors. They will simply check totem spots as they pass them, and if they see your ruin - boom it's gone. By the time they finish all 5 gen's they finish all 5 totems. They know that by actively ignoring generators and searching the map for all totems - they will be throwing the game. As far as NOED is concerned. It's a Hex perk that makes you have 3 perks all game with a miniscule 5% movement increase. Good survivors only care if they get hit once. Good survivors know how to loop against Bloodlust 1, which all NOED is. They tract Killer movement, and know when to work on the doors, or if it's a SWF they have at least 1 key or controlled chest RNG to get a key. They play around NOED just like anything else, and the Killer that took NOED is only worse off taking a useless perk that made them have only 3 perks in the first place.
So reliability you will most likely not have NOED at the end of the match, and even if you did get it - it doesn't give much of a reward. Same with Ruin, and same with Undying. Honestly Undying is only a perk to protect a perk that shouldn't be easy to completely eliminate in the first place. So you are choosing to throw away a perfectly good slot, to protect a useless perk. That's two slots thrown away, against good survivors you lost at the loading screen.
Back on the fact that good survivors can just ignore Ruin. You go back on survivors needed educational perks/items like Small Game, Detectives Hunch, or a Map. No good survivor is going to run an educational perk. They already know the spawn locations. They also already know where the Killer likely spawned, and other survivors likely spawned.
As far as Tinkerer's goes - good Killers would know what gen's are being worked on, be able to esitmate how many, and how long it would take for that gen to be completed. Any Killer VS a good survivor knows they lost that gen when it reaches 75% which is the only time you get the use out of Tinkerer's.
You're trying to reason, with bad information, for bad perks, that no good Killers run, and no good Survivors care about. With scenario's that only works on bad survivors.
And again Surge is only useful, if it can pop more than one gen. Against good survivors - it won't, because they don't work on gens next to each other.
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"No amount of gen pressure you do can stop 3 Generator's being worked on at once."
Have you never played against Huntress and ruin before?
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Yes? Again. Ruin is useless against good survivors. Are you talking about the fact that Huntress can throw a hatchet from across the map to hit survivors working on a gen? Because you know you could just work on the generator on the side opposite of where the killer is, so you don't get hit by a hatchet from across the map.
#MindBlown
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There are four methods. I will show you the way:
1)If you have a big terror radius, then ruin+undying is the way to go,as others insist. Undying usually extends the game and as you get more hooks players start being less bold. Works great with huntress.
2)The steatlhboi method changes because you can't apply passive pressure just by being around so you must absolutely use Pop Goes the Weasel.
3) This is the placement method. You need iron grip, agitation, or both. You simply position the survivor where you want them. Usually this is the basement or away from your totems if you brought any. By putting them in the basement, you shift the gravity away from the rest off the field and patrol only the gens near the basement. Extremely map dependent.
4) The last way is to let them finish the generators and make an endgame build. Usually this means you need to run No One Escapes Death, Blood Warden, Remember Me. I usually run Pop anyways, but Nemesis is fun too because it means if anyone blinds or stuns then you can immediately follow up that chase with a Remember Me token added because it turned them into your obsession and they lost your TR for a minute.
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"Because you know you could just work on the generator on the side opposite of where the killer is"
So if you're on a generator and the killer is coming towards you, that means you have to leave that gen to get to the opposite side of where the killer is. This also means that you'd have to maneuver around the map indirectly which is extremely time consuming. During that entire time your generator is regressing without the killer having to do anything but be nearby. Terrible idea.
"#MindBlown"
Ha imagine hashpoundtagsigning yourself after being so horribly and obviously wrong like this lol
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#########? Are you smoking crack? As survivor you usually have an idea which direction the Killer is coming from. Just put the generator between you and them while you work on it. Since the Huntress nerf she can't hit the top of your head over the generator while you work on it, or crouch behind it. Also if the Killer is coming and chasing you, that's 2 other generators being worked on at the same time. Just run the chase as normal against a huntress, don't give a ######### about the gen you used to be working on.
Where did you suddenly come with this giant convoluted idea of what I said?
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I honestly don't know what kind of "good" Survivors you're talking about. I play at Rank 1 and rarely ever get Survivors that aren't Red Rank. I've never lost a game where Survivors don't cleanse Ruin because I can pressure them enough to make it get tons of value.
It's only like maybe 1 out of every 10 games where any Survivor(s) even escape out of the exit gate with this build. NA west coast servers. Unless there's something magical about the servers you play on, I think the hypothetical god tier coordinated Survivors you're talking about are so rare that there's no reason to even mention them. For all intents and purposes, a Ruin+Undying+BBQ with Surge/Tinkerer/Killer Specific Perk is best.
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"#########? Are you smoking crack?"
I was about to ask you the same thing until I reread your post, but then realized it still didn't make sense.
"As survivor you usually have an idea which direction the Killer is coming from."
We're assuming a lot of things here. Sometimes you know where a killer is at. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes you don't know if they're on the same floor level or if you're even being stalked. "Usually" is the wrong word here.
"Just put the generator between you and them while you work on it."
I just reread your post after you said this. I missed the word "side", so you didn't suggest moving to the opposite side of the map. Your suggestion is literally only going to work against new players though. Anyone with a mic is going to hear you working on the gen and anyone with experience is going to instinctively check around a worked generator.
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Ranks really don't matter for one. It's easy to get to rank 1 as survivor. Hell I got there in just 2 weeks when I played survivor for the first time. It's a bit harder as Killer to get to Rank 1, but again - you will get there if you play enough.
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You're obviously not working on the generator next to the Killer. You said I clearly havn't faced Huntress with Ruin. Well other than her having a ranged attack, what's the big difference? She can throw hatchet from the map. Which most good huntresses don't really do because, well they like to make sure the survivor is actually there and know that most good survivors don't repair on the side that they can get hit by a hatchet from across the map.
Like I don't see your point of huntress running ruin that makes it different than any other killer running Ruin. Ruin is a useless perk, that you never see good survivors have a problem with.
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I get Rank 1 within the first two days of rank reset. Every month for at least six month in a row. I'm not sure why you're so desperate to invalidate me.
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"You're obviously not working on the generator next to the Killer"
Obviously. That doesn't mean killers don't normally check generators if they're worked on. Do you do this? You're that killer that looks at a gen from 20 meters and doesn't scope out the area aren't you? Terrible game sense.
"Which most good huntresses don't really do"
I've never played against a single Huntress that didn't. In fact, Huntresses and Clowns are the two most detective esque killers I've played against. I don't know what causes that but what you're saying hasn't been true for me and the opposite has been the case.
"well they like to make sure the survivor is actually there and know that most good survivors don't repair on the side that they can get hit by a hatchet from across the map."
Exactly (LOL)! So your suggestion of just hiding behind the gen sounds pretty dumb now that you've admitted you know this.
Ruin and Undying are amazing perks and they're the sole reason I can play Huntress now.
*"Like I don't see your point of huntress running ruin that makes it different than any other killer running Ruin."
So it's pretty simple: Because she has a passive threat identifier out to forty meters it makes rookies and people who have already been hooked or currently injured extremely skittish about staying on a generator. This means that they will leave their gens and activate Ruin much more quickly. This isn't that hard to figure out.
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false, hexy BOTB everyone would run hex ruin + undying. good survivors wont waste time healing they will do gens. also snowballing? good luck when they bring unbreakable, DS and play very safe to prevent that in the first place
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Again ranks don't matter. I get rank 1 on both on the 13th, what's your point?
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Good post, strong points. Can't agree more. Running sloppy butcher and nurse's calling was fun for a while until I'd go up against anyone with a medkit, those healing perks, or inner strength. When it works it's hilarious (as a Ghostface). It didn't work often.
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His point is that he can consistently get success with Ruin and Undying, obviously. If he's doing it regularly then that means it's working overtime for him. It's a good idea too because they elongate the game which enhances the chances of getting pips.
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I think this player is another perfect example of players that don't know enough about the game to be commenting on the games balance...
Not only do you constantly misread what i've said (I think?), but you go on without even making any sense
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Playing the same build every game is very boring. Especially because someone told you it's "meta".
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I wouldn't take BBQ if i was going to go for the strongest build
the bloodpoints are nice but imo the aura reading is kinda mediocre once survivors start playing around it.
Infectious Fright allows you to keep up pressure, avoid pallet/flashlight saves and stops people from cleansing your totem if you down someone near them while they were working on it.
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Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem. :)
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What do you mean with my Iron Maiden, Monstrous Shrine, Beast of Prey, Zanshin Tactics Build isn't viable?
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Firstly, hex builds rely heavily on things that don't depend on killer like totem placement. If you think that "strongest" build is a build with colossal risk of collapsing, then idk what I can advise you.
Secondly, hexy tournament hasn't showed effectiveness of other builds. It only showed that killers there considered undying combo their best choice and as I can remember, this combo failed miserably multiple times.
Thirdly, current anti heal builds will either force survivors into -20% repair speed or heal endlessly. Both of these situations are lose-lose to survivors.
Lastly, combination of antiheal and snowballing builds, for example forced penance+thana+infectious+any other perk (for example pop because of consistency) gives effective and consistent result on a killer like blight through damage spreading and forcing survivors to waste a lot of time or risk being instantly snowballed. Such builds also suck out things like unbreakable and perform well at triangles or squares of gens.
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There you go
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Freddy with Tinkerer, Corrupt, Pop, Thana, and a rope is pretty devastating.
Also Spirit with Mother Daughter Ring, Amulet, and Stridor is beyond god tier.
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