A simple Fix to the SWF problem
This has been a ongoing issue for a while now about survivors in groups. Objectively playing in comms is stronger than playing solo, so how do you balance around this? After countless nights doing math and research and many lost nights of sleep i've conducted a solution.
- For each survivor in the trail that is in a group decrease Generator repair speed by %75
Note this will only affect those players in the group ( If you are a 2 man, only the 2 stack would have the change affect them, the other players are not changed)
Now thats a simple fix for 2 and 3 man squads, how do you fix a sweaty 4 man bully SWF sweat squad?
- When playing in a 4 man SWF Generators completed to power exit gates increased to 7 (from 5)
Thank you for reading, if you have any feedback I would be glad to hear!
Comments
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Get more sleep... reducing gen speed by 75%?
fixing 7 gens out of 7? Killer can just stand in front of one gen
18 -
No killer would want to sabotage the game like that. Obviously this won't happen.
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It will happen. I don't play swf, or just with one friend. It will make people play only solo. And swf will play another game, how to destroy a game.
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I'm all for trying to find a solution to the swf bully squads. But I can tell you even if a 4 man swf all red ranks we still get stomped every once in a while. I truly believe everything would be ok if MM was a little better
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Now imagine this with 1 person gen.
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Should the matchmaking match stronger killer with you when you are in a swf or should it ignore that?
Could the matchmaking time increase for swf with a fair matchmaking because there are not many killers who are good enough?
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Easiest Fix To The SWF Problem;
- Voice chat
- Show who's SWF in end game screen
- Bonus Bloodpoints for Killer after facing SWF
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What about people who don't want to talk with the others ? Friday the 13th did that : fail.
What about bonus bloodpoints for solo survivors ?
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Thats the wrong way to balance swf. In theorie its easy to balance swf: summarize what makes swf strong and add that to solo survivor.
So what makes a swf strong?
I know two points:
1. Information
2. you know the skill level of your team
To fix that:
1. Information game mechanics (like kindred), Communication system (Chat, Ping-System, etc)
2. A working MMR
Did i miss something?
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So a 4man would have 3 times the work needed to finish a gen? Am I understanding that correctly, 240 seconds base per generator before any additional slowdown? Not that mechanical debuffs like this will ever happen in the first place, but that's a new record. Prior to this the most extreme modifier I can remember seeing proposed for this was 50% per player.
And for the other idea, I'd like to assume that if they had to do 7 generators that means 9 generators would spawn. Because there's a reason the game spawns more generators than the survivors need to do to power the gates.
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There is no game mechanic to fix for SWF. Play better. Prevent good plays. Have situational awareness.
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The easiest fix to the "SWF Problem" would be to accept that 4 good Players would give the Killer a hard time as well when playing Solo.
And well, this includes stopping to complain about SWFs and focussing on getting better at the game. Seeing OPs proposal shows me that not SWF is the problem he is losing games. Let alone that his proposals dont make sense at all.
Just some thought (which should be obvious IMO): If you reduce the Repair time of the SWFs, how are Solos not affected? They play with teammates who are slow on Gens (and I am not talking about the "not doing Gens" slow).
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- Mute options obviously.
- It's bonus BP for the Killer not the Survivors.
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... 4 man SWF does play a lot better than 4 Solo's. That's just common sense.
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Did I say anything else? I just said that 4 Solos who are good at the game will give the Killer a hard time as well.
4 Solos who are good at the game will be harder to beat than a Potato 4 man SWF. Really, stop blaming your losses on SWFs.
But I guess someone who does not want to play when Bloodlust is disabled, blames SWF a lot.
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1 - Do you know how many languages exist in this world ? If everyone mute the others, this is ridiculous.
2 - Killers get many points by just playing. How many times did I get 30K with 0, 1 or 2 kills ? As solo survivors, it's boring to gain less than 10K.
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on3 -
No, slowing down gens because of a 2/3swf punishes the solo players.
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I think the only nerfs I want for swf is locking map offerings and OoO.
Idc about comms, Idc about anything else just those things.
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There are some perks, like hex: the 3rd seal and knockout, that have greatly reduced effect since a group on coms can just tell each other where they are most of the time. I'm fine with challenging matches, but people have a point when they complain about swf.
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Nobody would run those Perks if they know they go against Solos. Bringing those up is a pretty weak argument. If someone checks all the profiles and sees that they are all Solo, they dont go like "Oh boy, I can finally play my Knockout!"...
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Casual solos are an automatic loss against a decent killer because they can't rush the gens fast enough. If it is a good killer it is game over when everyone has spawned. Too many killer perks telling killer where everyone is located. Perks like Ruin and Undying are too oppressive against casuals. Distortion needs a buff.
Voice chat is not really the issue because most good SWF plays together in groups which gives the illusion that SWF is unbalanced to killer because they didn't 4K. Solos are being slaughtered with 5 gens still up with all of the killer perks, killer later encounters a SWF and one or two sneaks out and the game is now unbalanced. I think it is over-exaggerated. Is it harder to play against SWF? Definitely, but not unwinnable.
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They do lol. Your's didn't make much since.
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Not wanting certain maps against SWF, or in general as killer, is more a reflection of balance issues on them imo, that coordinated and/or good survs can work to their advantage.
Also preventing map offerings to one role but not the other will lead to survs wanting to prevent say a wall-hack build killer from putting up an indoor map offering for instance.
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While I agree on OoO (also for Solos, this Perk is too good for Solos as well, at the very, very least they get a massive head start against a approaching Killer), I disagree on Map Offerings.
Over time Maps will be more balanced. None of the reworked Maps is really imbalanced for one side, the latest, good example is Ormond. And sometimes even SWFs want to burn a normal Map Offering, I have seen SWFs burn stuff like Autohaven or MacMillan on me, which looks for me like they want to go on one of the "normal" Maps (aka no Indoor-Map by random).
And overall, I am also fine that survivor-sided and killer-sided Maps exists, it is just that the survivor-sided Maps are currently TOO survivor-sided. But having an advantage because of Maps is fine, as long as it is not that massive like it currently is.
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I agree, wish there were more maps like coal tower and father's chapel, both are great for both sides.
But for the maps, I just hate ormond with OoO, it's almost impossible to win unless they mess up a lot.
For now I think disabling map offerings is good, but once they all get reworked put map offerings back.
It's just imagine playing a trapper in ormond against OoO, that is very hard.
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I think a better fix is to let the killer have a weak helper with comms. If the killer has a friend, then matchmaking prioritizes SWF matches. Solo killers are prioritized with solo survivors.
Quite honestly, this helps to balance the game for every single player, SWF, solo, and killer!
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Can we just get better matchmaker so:
a) survivors wont have to play swf to have at least decent teammates (that can unhook you, wont sit in map corner or selfcare vs legion)
b) big groups wont play vs baby killers
Also when im talking about better matchmaker it would be great to not have 50% of survivors playerbase to be in red ranks because its close to impossible to derank.
Next, bonus info would be nice: totem counter, kindred, pings (like "im in chase" or "i need healing")
As we all know getting 1st chase is most important i would add small speed boost for killers (before starting 1st chase) (that would be even stronger for killers like trapper or hag because their set up would be much faster because of that).
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I hear what you are saying. But honesty solo que is horrendous right now.
Swf is what makes the game competitive. Solo is almost always 4ks.
True balance would be make coms standard for solo que as well. Then balance around that.
Because currently solo que is just 1v1v1v1v1. There is very little teamwork. It is survivors competing against each other for the opportunity to pip before dieing.
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Wow... are SWF groups usually toxic enough to make gen speeds go down 75% and have 7 gens to repair? I have played with my friends a few times and we were pretty tame, and I remember one time when my friends left and the nurse main that got 0 hooks was standing there I dropped my item and made her hook me. Not all groups are out to deck you. I've had my share of mean teams but in the end I just gave in and thought 'well, if they're gonna win, may as well be a good sport about it' and we all teabagged at the gates,,,, my babies I miss them everyday!!! I guess what I'm trying to say is, if they are one of the mean groups, either accept your defeat and have fun, or go to the Corner of Shame™ Good luck in your next matches, and I hope you encounter a nice SWF soon! They can be charming :)!
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I'm with you. 7 gens, that is excessive. I mean who is OP facing a full 4 man of the top streamers.
Swf is still beatable. It is a small minority of superior teams. The rest aren't even that good, let alone 7 gens good.
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In a SWF I'm barely good at 1 gen because I get distracted so easily lol! But seriously, I have faced some SWFs that are quite nice and don't all swat team me as Plague because I'm super new to her, but I have faced some as GF where they run around me in circles while I carry someone and then flash their light at me over and over again to get my attention. Not too fun, but I'll take it over a DC haha :)
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- English is considered the worlds primary language. The game already has dedicated servers which will benefit keeping people with similar languages playing together. Hundreds of other games do just fine with voice chat features. Stop copying/pasting the same dismissive comments on good ideas.
- Then play Killer. As survivor you already have a much less stressful game even as solo, and you have the oppurtunity to play with friends. This thread is about balancing SWF, not for the Dev's to feed Survivors more candy.
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1 - I can write in english, but people may won't be able to hear me with my accent. Spanish is the most spoken language before english, so should we all speak in spanish ? No, you won't. Some people will insult the others in vocal, Behavior won't have the capacity to ban people for that. In some games (like Deceit), if 3 players are playing together, they won't talk with the other one. So what's the point ? I clearly don't understand. Vocal in game will create more and more problems.
2 - I play killer, so what ? I also play survivor and I prefer to play as solo. I think you didn't understand. Yes, it's about balancing SWF, but you're not trying to find a solution without problems.... And what about candies for killers as you said ?
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1 - You are going to be matched with mostly spanish speakers anyways, and again English is the worlds universal language. Stop making me repeat myself.
2 - Don't really care to be honest dude. Stop begging for more for the strongest role in the game. Who cares if Killers get even more bloodpoints, it would only encourage more people to play more Killer - which is what the game needs right now.
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1 - You are closed-minded to the point of not understanding that Spanish is the most spoken language and that not everyone speaks English very well with a specific vocabulary on video games.
2 - You care about nothing. And the game need people to play solo as survivor, no ?
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Maybe that's too much but something is needed to play against SWF, it's not only maybe they are 3-4 full swf, it's that they are playing WITH VOICE CHAT. Thats op and unfair for the killer. For many killers the match get super hard, also when those SWF have got thousands and thousands of hours.... but with killers like TRAPPER... c'mon, they can dodge traps, they can bait trappr again and agan making u go to the corner and the other...
A few weeks ago i get tired after i played against 4 consecutive full SWF playing trapper and i didn't get any single kill. Since that i always look steam profiles, and if they are SWF of 3-4 I go yes or yes pink mori and start killing all people. If not, it's impossible.
And the sad thing is later i being bulled and insulted for go with perks like NOED or mori, full SWF wich only died 1 guy, insulting and flaming me for play mechanics of the game, while they are 4 and playing with voice chat, wich wait, it's not a mechanic of the game.
SWF are hard to play against, and VOICE chat are OP, unfair for the killer.
As i said, maybe something needed to deal with that, but maybe 75% less or do 7 gens it's too much XD
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So ur fix it's just give more blood points? what kind of fix it's that? XD
Anyway i can know if im playing against SWF just looking their profiles... as i always do since i get tired XD
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If Killers know they are against SWF in the end game screen, then would have an easier time learning from that - since they can better track when they are actually against SWF. Even more BP for Killer is needed as an incentive to play Killer, which the game is lacking right now.
Jesus it's almost like they just let anyone comment on the forums, even the people with 0 idea of marketing or game development. Oh wait they do. That's why you don't understand what I'm talking about.
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I'm L8 but nice b8 m8
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Not read everything said here cus thats a lot of words and I cba but heres my 2 cents. SWF is not a problem. Its pisses me off to see people refer to it as that. Its the way the game is intended. Thats the level of difficulty the game is designed for. Thats why solo queue sucks so much. If you can't handle SWFs at all at your rank, then you need to derank. If you are just losing a few games every now and then, then you have no problem here. You can't win them all. Sure, sweaty 4 man SWFs are annoying, but they are playing for their own fun. Do your best to beat them and if you lose, move on to the next. sweat squads arent that common, you cant find that so bad when you see like 1 a day. You probably get 80% of your games with all solo queue. When I play SWF I dont bring 4 DS, 4 Iron will, 1 OoO, etc. We just play for fun. I usually kill myself at the end just for the meme too. Why should the people who play like me be punished so harshly? If I had to do 7 gens to play with my friends I would never play. Thats absurd.
SWF isnt a problem, changing the game works for them isnt a solution. The problem is killers not being able to counter it. Its the way the game is designed, you need to learn.
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Actually SWF was never intended. BHVR didn't even want the game to have SWF. They added it because players found a work around through lobby dodging.
I am pretty sure at this point I am the only player still on the forums from when this game first was released.
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One of the best idea would be to stop :
- daily rituals and challenges : "escape" as a survivor. It should be "play x times as [Insert name of one survivor]".
- daily rituals and challenges : "escape with an item"
- daily rituals : "open an exit gate"
It will create a huge difference. Survivors won't gen rush, and killers won't think about "SWF" all the time.
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It might not have been originally intended, but its the biggest attraction to the game. Most people get this game to play with their friends. People start solo queueing when their friends arent on after a few games of SWF. If you got punished so harshly for playing with friends then people who were attracted to the game to play with their friends (the majotity of people) would not want to play it anymore.
Might not have been the original intention, but it certainly is the main intention now.
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I do agree with you though. This game should let you play with your friends, and it's the most appealing part of the game. The problem is that you shouldn't be this strong because you play with friends. The game should be balanced around that. By balancing the Killers to be strong enough to face SWF, and then giving Solo the option to use Voice Chat if they desire, would balance the game out.
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hahahahah i understand what u are talking about, but as u said, it's an incentive, not a fix. It's not bad, but something more needed. Not just BP.
Maybe, a good fix under here:
Maybe they can make a NORMAL MATCH QUEUE, where u can play full SWF, and people can play also more chill there, and test perks/addons/killers.... but then, in 'RANKED MODE', YOU CAN ONLY PLAY WITH ONE MORE FRIEND, SWF OF 2.
As others games do, like LOL, because it's not the same thing win a match alone as survivor.... as win a match going full SWF. In full SWF you don't show all ur real skill, u have got other 3 friends, and u are playing with VOICE CHAT.
Do u really think im going to play again and again with Traper against full SWF just because they give me a little bit more BP? Im tired of play 4 consecutive matches with Trapper against full SWF and don't get a single kill, because they are SWF with thousands of hours, they cover all the hits, they bait me, they know where all my traps are, they all know where am i al lthe time..... no sense. It's hard with many killers, but with Trapper it's impossible, for the moment the only chance it's to take mori all that matches. I check profiles, if they are full SWF, i go mori 100%.
And the bad thing it's not SWF as VOICE CHAT IS. Voice chat it's the unfair and OP thing here. Also, it's not a mechanic of the game, because there are no Voice chat in-game, people need to use, for example, Discord.
Anyway this is just my opinion.
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I thought the devs admitted long ago SWF was intended for launch but wasn't ready at the time. I might be mistaken, but I'll look around for links...
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Now how to fix sweaty killers?
(As a survivor) I use to be a heavy advocate of nerfing swf but from two whole days worth of play solo queue with killers that have done at least two of the following (and in the purple and red ranks how shameful to guise themselves with ranks as if they had skill):
1) camping hooked survivors.
2) tunneling hooked survivors.
3) camping and tunneling basement hook survivors (seems like the new meta).
4) holding the game hostage by camping (and waiting till) last generators reach 0% progression (in order to then go after last survivors).
5) over kill gameplay:
Pig: tunneling a survivor that just got unhooked (although the survivor already has a reverse bear trap, and was rescued by two other survivors that could've been chased).
Plague: plague touched generators, refusing to take corrupt purge- all fountains corrupt (which sounds like a bug because i thought plague automatically is given a corrupt purge state after a pool of devotion reaches a its automatic cleanse time (which is supposed to be a long time anyways but it was balance.
Ive always considered myself a just person but this game is starting to get boring, im starting to feel like it might only be fair to swf
Which sucks because i like playing solo
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