Would you mind if DS was base kit if it was 100% balanced and fair for both killer and survivors?
I am asking because I think that a balanced DS should be base kit for survivors, what do you think?
Comments
-
it depeneds on how it is balanced also i think BT and kindered are more worthy of being base kit than DS
10 -
i wouldn’t if corrupt was base kit
14 -
I think it is fine to use a Perk Slot for this. Otherwise you can start to talk about so much stuff Basekit...
I dont think that any Perk should be Basekit. The only thing I would like to have as Basekit would be the Aura Read of Buckle Up to see if the Survivor on the ground actually recovered or not.
Of course Kindred would also make sense, but Devs stated that they dont want to do that, so I guess thinking about any Perk being basekit will not lead to anything.
13 -
Ds for sure, maybe bt, but anything else would be a nightmare.
I don't run meta, and I rarely get tunnelled with SB and inner strength.
I've got this mindset where, "if the killer plays dirty, it's because he's more afraid than I am"
Also, he's the killer, he's pretty much entitled to play as dirty as he wants.
He ain't tryna make fiends yo.
3 -
It would be a bit odd having it base kit, it wouldn't really fit into the game.
Assuming they got it 100% balanced however id be down. Issue is, that will never happen.
1 -
So long as it cannot be used aggressively, I think that'd be the best change since they decided to rework the maps.
0 -
This. I was thinking (it'll never happen) but, base kit, 45 second timer, pauses in a chase OR down. However, disables when touching a gen or changing a health state. But I think that would be too complex and weird to be basekit.
0 -
Now that you say this, how come Buckle Up's aura reveal thing isn't base kit? It's perfectly fine for both killer and survivor to have it as base kit...
0 -
Nah, it'd be too easy to play around in that case which would just allow killers to easily eliminate someone from the game early and I say that as someone who plays both sides.
0 -
BT in the current state of just rewarding unsafe unhooks shouldn’t be base kit imo. Kindred 100% should be though.
3 -
If decisive strike was basekit, some killers would just try to chew through it instead of being afraid of it
0 -
I wouldn't if Ruin was basekit for Killers.
1 -
Is that a joke? Cause if it is then I laughed lol.
1 -
It's reasonable suggestion. DS is prob strongest perk of the whole game currently, much stronger than ruin actually. Ruin rewards killer for putting pressure on survivors, DS rewards survivors with 60 second immunity for getting hooked. But i think some form of base BT or kindred would be better than just slapping DS on every survivor.
0 -
Someone would find a way to abuse it since no perk is 100% fair especially when you consider bhvr is balancing it
0 -
If they managed to balance it well then I am absolutely for ds being base kit. Thing is that if they balanced ds so that its only for anti tunnelling then the perk would be really bad I think. If the killer doesn’t tunnel then you’ve just wasted a perk slot. Whereas if it were base kit then you wouldn’t have to use a perk to y’know, play the game without being killed 2 minutes in. Plus I personally think that a bandaid fix to tunnelling in the form of a perk is especially insulting considering that it’s hidden behind an unavoidable paywall (Laurie is licensed). Sure there’s the shrine but there’s no guarantee you’ll ever get the perk from there in a timely manner.
0 -
No, there are better ways they can fix tunneling and camping.
My general idea is.
Fix camping by giving every other survivor a 100% bonus to repair speed (40 seconds to repair a gen) if you are camping a hook and there is no other survivor nearby. Give killer and survivors a notification that this is happening. Should behave similar to how the emblem currently works for camping detection.
Also, make kindred base kit.
Also, after reaching the second hook stage while the killer is camping and the other survivors have the repair buff (if 1 hooked then camped) you automatically unhook yourself and become "Ethereal" (details below) This means you will die on your next hook. This effect does not happen after all the generators have been repaired.
Fix tunneling by creating a new status/buff effect called "Ethereal" which works as follows:
While you are "Ethereal" you make no noise, no scratch marks, and are completely invisible to the killer. You are also unable to be hit and receive 100% bonus movement speed for 10 seconds. For the next 20 seconds, you are unable to exit the trial through the gates. If you perform any action, or are healed by another survivor during this time, the effect is cancelled.
After you do these 2 things, you rework DS and BT to do this:
DS:
Works exactly the same as it does now, EXCEPT:
- Lasts 30 seconds
- While in the killer's terror radius, or in a chase, the timer freezes.
- If you perform any action (repair gen, heal, do totem etc.) or are healed for one full health state, the perk deactivates.
- You are now able to use this perk more than once.
BT:
Completely reworked.
When unhooking another survivor while in the killer's terror radius, they gain "Borrowed Time". 10 seconds after being unhooked (after the ethereal effect ends passively), the survivor unlocks the "self-heal" option and are able to heal themselves at 150% healing speed.
0 -
No, because you'll never be able to balance DS in the eyes of a killer.
DS should not be touched because any change will never be enough.
1 -
I want to desperately believe this is a shitpost but you put too much time into this.
0 -
rewarding safe unhooks? how? do they get more points for having the unhooked survivor taking a hit? more like punishing face camping with most killers
0 -
Basically the usual punishment for an unsafe hook is the first hit while you attempt it and the second after the unhook to trade hooks. With BT the unhooked will just body block giving both a free escape. It rewards unsafe hooks. Not every reward is BP lmao
0 -
Id be okay with that, just make it deactivate if you hook someone else.honestly it should just be an anti-tunnel perk anyway having 60seconds of not being able to be picked up again is insane when youre high level and everyone has DS abusing the fact they dont need to worry about the killer downing them. Any other perk shouldnt be, but i do believe at base a killer kicking a gen should remove X% progress because at default it can be pretty pointless kicking gens
1 -
it is a deep wound you have to mend so its not really free also its pretty rare in my games at least
0 -
Bruh deep wound is the least threatening thing in the game so I wouldn't consider it a punishment. It's one of the reasons legion is such a joke.
2 -
maybe as a method to get downs but it is still taking time more time away from survivors which is worth something
0 -
Would you mind bbq being basekit for killers, as it is already 100% fair with all the counters it has?
0 -
Survivor yes Killers no
0 -
Yes it would be fine
0 -
I wouldn't mind but if you're going to make it based kit you have to severely reduce it's effectiveness.
I'm not talking about just take its timer down to 45 seconds or something.
If you're adding it to the basekit it has to be a prevention for immediate tunneling.
20-30 seconds
It must deactivate if the killer hook somebody else whilst it's activated or if the survivor in question touches a generator or Totem
1 -
I say yes for survivors because it's good in general especially in matches with multiple slugs to know who's the person you should go for.
It's bad for Killers because of time efficiency if the killer slugs one survivor and chases another what's the point of me immediately rushing over there when I could just stay on my generator until the Slugged survivor is ready to be picked up.
This way I put more time into my objective and only leave when I absolutely need to.
Not saying that it would be bad to make it basekit just saying that it wouldn't be fine for both parties
0 -
I'm struggling to comprehend taking a perk which requires a perk slot, and then giving it to everyone for free, and how that could ever equate to being "100% balanced and fair for both killer and survivor." What does that even mean? It's just a blanket buff for survivors, there's no way to balance it "for killers" because you've opened up a free perk slot for anyone who ran it and just gave a free perk to anyone who didn't. In what world would the killer gain equal benefit to make it "100% balanced and fair?"
Just imagine the same question with Ruin, Corrupt, etc, any meta killer perks. How would the killers getting something for free ever be fair for you?
The only potential balance would be that it'd be weaker since it's no longer a perk, and so you never have to deal with "bad" DS again, you just have to deal with 100% of all survivors having it.
Mind you, I'm not against anything becoming basekit, just that in doing so, the only way to make it "100% balanced and fair" is to make something for the other side basekit as well.
So survivors can have DS, and killers can have territorial imperative.
2 -
It doesn’t take time. It’s paused when survivors are running and they can work on gens/heal others before even bothering to spend the 12 seconds to heal it. Can we stop pretending like deep wounds is actually useful for getting downs or as slowdown?
0 -
Remove being in the killer's terror radius as a condition for the perk to stay active. Survivors could abuse this.
0 -
I would mind, yes. Can you imagine giving the small pp build a new perk slot?
0 -
That's what it should've been from the beginning. Not a "look at me while a I do this gen or hop in a locker because I'm %*&$ing invincible" perk. It should activate twice after the first hook stage with 1 minute timer and 30 seconds after struggle. Every time a survivor is hooked after you've been unhooked it deducts 30 seconds from your timer. Touching a gen or a hex totem disables it until the next time you are hooked. Ds disabled in egc or after 5 generators have been completed
0 -
Nope, not as long as it's a stun Perk.
0 -
im saying go ahead and assumed the deep wound timer will never reach zero and you will never get a down from it. it still takes extra time to mend that could be used working on gens. deep wound never gets downs unless your using that one legion add on or are in rank 20's.
but the extra heal time does help
0 -
I wouldn't mind if Make Your Choice was basic for killers lol. At least you would avoid camping and DS would also be helpful in this scenario.
0 -
If it's for the whole purpose of not being tunneled, yeah I think basekit would be great.
If it can be used with the intention of free stunning the killer when not tunneling then no.
0 -
without it, killers could abuse it by moonwalking.
0 -
I think DS need to be heavily nerfed so it disables when the survivor does like literally anything like gens totems sabos healing etc. Sure it can become basekit then. Also imo unbreakable needs to be basekit without the recovery speed boost. By default you sohuld be able to pick yourself up once per match.
0 -
Camping is already as weak as it can be without the game breaking.
Devs have tested multiple times trying stuff like increasing repair speed during a camp or slowing the hook timer. What that does is create a situation where the killer literally can't win any interaction with the hook so they just win via slugging. If you tried to hook in those tests a survivor would just stare you down at the hook or be really overtly ready to rescue because if you stuck about you were auto-losing the game, and leaving immediately meant you were giving up basically any pressure the hook got you.
Survivors have gotten as many anti-camping concessions they can get. If you want your teams to be tunneled less at this point, work harder to not be the first down, and get better at doing late rescues.
Basically, hooking is already only marginally better than slugging already. Any weaker and the game just becomes... toxic and awful. So... no. No base BT. Make a sacrifice for a perk that gives you something you don't technically need unless the rescuer is sloppy.
1 -
Deep wound is 12 seconds and you have as long as you want to mend it because it pauses while sprinting. It’s not comparable to getting a trade from someone unhooking in front of you. The only person it will ever be of any benefit to is slinger and only if he stacks sloppy and the extra mend time addon and that only works when he hits someone with a shot.
It rewards hook rushing and unsafe unhooks.
1 -
Who wouldn't?
0 -
the time to mend is 12 seconds or the timer until you go down is 12 seconds?
i am just saying hitting a survivor for them to got from healthy to injured is only mildy better than hitting someone to go from injured to deep wound the difference is relatively minor
0 -
Personally I'd implement something much more complex but would encourage a more proactive dbd game that encourage spreading hooks out, punishes tunneling and rewards killers who can apply pressure fast and consistently.
Battered and Lively states.
Spending an extended period of time uninjured grants a survivor the active trait increased action speeds for all activities. Upon being injured there in the surviving state. A survivor cannot reach the active state whilst injured. Battered state is a condition where you action speed is reduced and is inflicted upon being hooked/downed (downed might be to strong). The trait wears off once healed to full or upon spending a extended period of time without being hit. Obviously it would be a big undertaking but I always find too many of these ideas people have for tunneling and camping fixes are too simple to work or are prone to abuse. Its a much more complex issue that requires a different approach to fix its core issues. IT would also help killers apply pressure that can slow down gen speeds if they play well.
0 -
Perfect balance game for me:
Survivors:
All infinity must be removed
DS as basekit (work twice in a match, after each hook, but DS canceled if do Objective)
Dead hard as basekit
2nd objectives must be applied (Gas to Gen, collect Scrape to Gen...)
Gen time decreased by half
Killers:
Bloodlust removed
After 5 Gen done, Killers have 3 Raging tokens: hit a healthy Survivor will use 1 token, cause instant down /// kick a complete Gen to regressing it to 90% which can depower Gates, use 1 token.
30sec Blood warden right after a Gate open as basekit
Both:
Hook works exactly like PH cage mechanic (change into Entity alike cage). Hook removed, Killers can call Entity to cage survivors.
Perks removed
0 -
I believe the only change to Decisive Strike that I would deem fair would be if the Survivor collects a piece of a Pallet broken by Killer. I would keep the original pallet burning away animation only if D.S is not in play.
It gives the Killer knowledge that the Perk is actually in the game when the Pallet pieces stay in map. So there is counter play on the Killers part. And it makes it more Skill based on the Survivor side other than just ******* off the Killer enough to tunnel them.
0 -
DS is only balanced because it uses a perk slot. Once it's base kit, it's a straight buff for survivors. Like it or not, tunneling is a strategy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that there should be a free built in counter.
0 -
It’s not minor. Putting an already injured survivor into deep wound is insanely worse than putting a healthy survivor into injured. BT as it is shouldn’t be basekit. The time to heal deep wound is 12 seconds. It’s nothing lmao
0
