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Those killers that have no counter

maderr
maderr Member Posts: 251
edited November 2020 in Feedback and Suggestions

What is the project here BHVR ?

I mean, creating killers that you can't counter at all.

  • The Hag
  • Gunslinger
  • PH
  • Stridor Spirit

Every other killers are fine but those are impossible to counter, nothing is working. If the killer is decent it's a 4k all the time without even using mindgame.

The only counter is gen rush which is not really the way i like to play the game.

Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on
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Comments

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772
    edited November 2020

    Ghostfaces 99% stalks are bullshit lets not beat around the bush. Especially with how broken reveal is.

    PH is one I'm weird on. Its really only 50/50 while the pallet is up, if he begins flinging out projectiles thats when the 1v1 counter play comes into effect. But good PHs dont allow you to drop without a trade so eh.

    I'm surprised you didn't mention Slinger where the only 1V1 counter is the Slingers own lack of skill.

    Iron Will is irrelevant as 99% of Spirits use Stridor, because Iron Will pretty much counters her entire power. Bad design.

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772

    This. In the rare case I see her solo if someone is being chased far away I'll quickly run around the nearby loops if she's been there to mess with her mobility.

  • Piwatte
    Piwatte Member Posts: 162
    edited November 2020

    Fun, now we have to play DS to counter tunnelers, iron will to counter spirits and play with flashlights to counter hags. #########.

    Some killers cry about these survivors playing like that, so I don't understand...

  • sQuAde
    sQuAde Member Posts: 32
    edited November 2020

    the fact that you can choose how a chase will go shows how bs these killers are. Also, where's the fun in that ? Survivors will go down based on their mistakes and killers won't get kills based on THEIR mistakes. Spirit, Deathslinger and ph - they'll take all of you knowledge and throw it in the trash because haha 50/50 mechanic go brrr

  • 1nsignia
    1nsignia Member Posts: 306

    I would also recommend a unknown and really good counter to hag, is to look behind you constantly while running.

    When baiting the trap, with the quickly run in the range and turn and run strat. It only works on some hag players. unlike the good hags that know when to press the button or mash it, you can avoid there lunge by looking back abusing the camera flick. Forcing your survival to turn around and dodge, even if she instaports.

    Trust me it works, I've used it and lost against it lol.

  • PanicSquid
    PanicSquid Member Posts: 655

    DS doesn't counter tunneling. It can only be used once...


    Iron will is generally a good perk against all killers. If you can break line of sight, your groans of pain don't give you away.


    You don't need a flashlight to deal with hag, but it helps. You can crouch walk over the traps, or make sure the hag is either too far to teleport, animation locked, or is too busy to warrant a teleport, then set off the traps.

  • notlonely
    notlonely Member Posts: 391

    Spirit should get her "bug nerf" reverted to finally make her balanced.

    Deathslinger is okay for me, he's just Huntress x Legion but give it a penalty.

    PH is fine now. I don't have trouble against him personally.

    Hag needs an entire rework. Her power is awful to play against, and incredibly boring to use too.

    Freddy could use a numbers nerf (slight) and he needs a SEVERE add-on rework. Like dream pallets and similars are fine but slow down add-ons are absolutely op. With his mobility and other slow downs like Ruin and Thana gens are literally impossible to do.

  • notlonely
    notlonely Member Posts: 391

    So, I just need to bring specific perks and items to "enjoy" playing against certain killers? Why is Hag's only basekit counterplay not moving or moving as slow as a snail? Why do I need to bring DS to every single match? I want to play obsession-less games where no survivors get tunneled or facecamped to death lol. I want to have fun playing against the most boring killer to play as without having to use a flashlight,

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772
    edited November 2020

    The problem there is that its outright stating that the survivors skills and attempts at mindgaming/juking should have no effect on the chase. Which is a good way to get people to drop survivor considering this game is all about the chase and generators are boring as hell to do, and stealth has been heavily nerfed in the last 2 years with the devs outright stating it isnt their intended playstyle.

    Survivors aren't complaining that they "can't just loop" the problem is that a lot of these killers outright counterthe survivors main form of defense but didn't add any new form of counterplay.

    These killers aren't considered "healthy" for the game by a lot of people because they remove survivor agency. Sure, I can win against a bad Spirit or Slinger, feel good? No, I only one because they're actively bad, not because I outplayed them with smart decisions or good gameplay. I'd rather just quit and get a match against a killer that's actually dynamic and fun, I don't care if I win or lose. I want my input to matter.


    Spirit actively shits all over the "meaningful interaction" that the devs claimed was the entire crux of DBD (the back and forth of the chase). There's nothing wrong with strong killers. I LOVE playing against a good Oni or a curve Billy, it's actually tense and terrifying. Heck, even Blight is incredibly strong and scary but the type of people that pick up these killers for free wins don't want to put the time in.

  • JBWarrior
    JBWarrior Member Posts: 29

    So, as a rank 2 survivor main I disagree on PH, slinger has some, hag sucks but random phantasms you’ll have to live with and then just crouch by hooks. Spirit though, has no real counterplay aside from a perk you will only really need against her. Spirit sucks and if put up against a SWF will still do really well. ######### spirit

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772

    Thats weird I don't hate playing Trapper even though he requires me to go out of my way to disable his traps and can counter looping. Weird. Almost like there's actions I as a player can take to play against him and him putting down his traps isn't just an instant win.

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772

    Tell me the counter to Spirit in a chase and if you say "just stop running" or "do something random" there's no discussion to be had.

  • notstarboard
    notstarboard Member Posts: 3,903
    edited November 2020

    How do you use stealth against Deathslinger without Spine Chill or Premonition? Every Deathslinger under the sun runs M&A and his unique TR effectively reduces his TR because it spins up so quietly. As a result the Deathslinger is probably going to be right on top of you by the time you know he's there.

    Similarly, how do you break line of sight against a killer that starts chases from so close? You pretty much need to be running Sprint Burst. Otherwise you basically need him to miss a shot, or you need to use the speed boost from getting hit the first time and hope like hell you're near favorable tiles.

    The other killers that can be countered by breaking LoS actually give survivors the opportunity to do this. You can break line of sight against Ghost Face and Myers because they have reduced movement speed while they stalk. You can break line of sight against Huntress because she needs to move slowly to charge her hatchet. You can break line of sight against Nurse because she is slower than survivors without using her power and she has a fatigue state after blinking. Deathslinger is roughly 110% throughout and there's basically no tell he's going to use his power, unlike Nurse or Huntress, who both have to loudly and visibly charge theirs. He just quickscopes.

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772
    edited November 2020

    I get what you're saying but with how much the developers routinely nerf stealth and add new perks that counter it (some of which are dependant on your teammates for crying out loud), its not a solid form of play and never will be. Their excuse of "Nurse is hard to play so it's fine that she disregards entire game mechanics" arguament is silly and I've never actually seen someone who put the time in to learn Nurse actually defend that statement.

    'Just don't get found' might have been good advice 2 years ago but now it means literally nothing. You can literally be found by auras by running too close to a wall that might have by chance had a totem on the other side right now.


    Also your Iron Will arguament means nothing. All Spirits outside of maybe 2-3% that play loud enough to actively damage thier eardrums use Stridor thanks to how widespread IW already was. And scratch marks load in so quick and breathing is so loud that "don't run near grass".... what does that even mean?

  • gibblywibblywoo
    gibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,772

    "Ree developers stop forcing me to use slowdown perks nerf gens"






    "just use iron will lol" - Boosted Spirits

  • Mister_xD
    Mister_xD Member Posts: 7,669

    its called map awareness.

    he is a tall guy, you should have no problem spotting him.


    you should always be on guard whenever the killer isnt chasing someone else.

    if you are not, the killer gets the jump on you and shoots you before you get enough time to react.

    dont forget: in order to use the Redeemer, a direct LoS to the target is required.

  • maderr
    maderr Member Posts: 251

    Hag you can't play a game being crouched all the time

    GS, not working, you can't loop more than 30 sec, even in building

    PH, he can spam his power and fake it as much as he want without loosing enough speed and without being stun long enough to not directly hit after the fake

    Spirit, bug or not, it's now months to not say years that we have a problem with her

    There are no counter at all. Pallet looping demands mind game, a lot. Killers have a way to loop to make the chases shorter.

  • maderr
    maderr Member Posts: 251

    There is no 5 gens pallet loop anymore, if it happens, the killer doesn't know how loops are working. Any good killer main knows when to chase, when to control map and how to end chases in 30 sec.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    That's why I put it in quotes. It was meant as a hyperbole to express the mechanical differences.

  • JustHeretoHaveFun
    JustHeretoHaveFun Member Posts: 86

    "You can't play a game being crouched all the time."


    Urban Evasion. Or, flashlights. Or, look at the ground and avoid traps.

    All of these killers have counterplay. Their counterplay is just different than other killers.


    Also people trying to say that Deathslinger has no counterplay are ridiculous. If you see him lining up a shot, or you think he might be, or if he exists, find a way to break LoS. It ain't that hard.

  • maderr
    maderr Member Posts: 251

    Your survivor rank ? Platform you play on ? How many hours of gameplay in the game ?

    Saying that some perks counter a killer is useless as you don't know the killer you will face. A good hag it's 4K all the time. Say otherwise and everyone will laugh about you on this forum.

    Deathsling is quickscope, you can' predict when he will shot. Also you can't break line of sight in between pallets/loops. So he will hit you between pallets. There is no counterplay against him.

    Counterplay is not made with a perk or an add on. Counterplay is a game mechanic, always present in every games, that can counter a killer.

    By counter i don't mean 100% counter, but that you can still hold the killer in some way of playing, not falling down in 15 seconds...

  • JesseJH28
    JesseJH28 Member Posts: 483

    Don't mistake being forced to play differently with a killer not having any counterplay. If you have to stealth, then stealth. If you have to fake vaults, fake vaults. If you have to become less predictable in chase, play less predictably. When I play killer, I'm anticipating the survivor's next move constantly, and since so many people play almost identically, it's usually not hard to guess what their next move is. It's the survivors who are able to hide when they need to, able to trick me at windows, able to lose me in chase rather than run straight to a pallet that get me. Because of that, I mix it up with these strategies as survivor (especially against the killers you listed) and tend to have much better luck

  • HollowsGrief
    HollowsGrief Member Posts: 1,497

    There is only one killer with no counter and she is the Nurse. If a Nurse player is top tier with her then she has no counter, all other killers have counters so the OP is talking like a rank 12. Nothing else to see here people, move along.

  • Sluzzy
    Sluzzy Member Posts: 3,130

    Add Huntress please.

    Any killer played well enough has no counter when you think about it. The only counter is a SWF genrush. I think every killer rework buff was overtuned and unfun. Can't wait to see a teleporting Clown coming up or some godly power of his that you can't counter.

  • DeliciousFood
    DeliciousFood Member Posts: 464

    There is a reason why Nurse and Spirit were the all-star killers in the recent DBD tournament against the sweatiest teams ever conceived in this game. They both have the ability to completely rob survivors of any means they have to defend themselves.


    Now, people aren't complaining about Nurse here because little to no nurse in queues are actually good enough to make anything lower than optimal SWF's completely hopeless. Nurse is unstoppable with no counterplay at peak performance. But ultimately, it's so rare and 'fair' to the extent that her power can still be read that no one's really going to complain. That and she's pretty much a glitch anyway, you're not even playing DBD anymore vs a nurse, which is fine.


    Spirit, on the other hand, barely telegraphs her power and doesn't have nearly as high of a skill cap as nurse. So, any pleb with a headset can wreck teams that aren't that strong (usual solo queue) with minimal effort. This is why people hate her so much, because of just how accessible she is. Freddy is also oppressive, but he doesn't rob you of your chase gameplay even if his kit is asinine. You can still see what Freddy does and do interesting plays to work around his snares. With Spirit? Sure, you can do that on the boosted turds that think she's the only viable killer at high ranks, but any Spirit that has many hours in will NOT be duped by these half-baked suggestions proposed in this forum. She has no counterplay, that's why she's tournament viable, because super SWF's are just that ridiculously strong.


    But the game should not be based around people who take a party game way too seriously. Spirit is a problem, and I hope the bug she had comes back.

  • BubbaMain64
    BubbaMain64 Member Posts: 546

    The only one I disagree on is PH. Whenever you hear his grunt when going into POTD just cut corners wide and don't be predictable. If they fake it then you can tell by listening for the dragging noise (which is bugged rn but this is assuming the game works like normal). Outside of that don't step into his trails unless you think you can loop him long enough it won't matter. Never choose dying over being tormented because I see a lot of survivors do that for some reason. Also don't unhook your teammates while in his terror radius. He doesn't know where the surv is until they're unhooked. His biggest strength is his ability to take people out of the game fast. Which ######### your whole team, so PLEASE DO NOT UNCAGE SOMEONE WHILE IN HIS TERROR RADIUS.

  • MeltingPenguins
    MeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,742

    If you think the sole way to play this game is getting into chases you might genuinely wanna deinstall it and play something else.

  • TheClownIsKing
    TheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    This is what annoys me about the mentality of many players: the killers are MEANT to be a threat. There are killers in this game where it’s INTENTIONAL for a survivor to have next to no chance against in a chase.

    The “counter” to killers with a strong chase ability is STEALTH!!!

    I.e. these are killers you’re SUPPOSED play cautiously against, and do what’s necessary to try and avoid getting into a chase with them in the first place.

  • GiEcruteak
    GiEcruteak Member Posts: 2

    Listen. Mad respect for those who take it all in stride.

    I have been playing this game since 2017, got to Rank 1 in Survivor, and 8 in Killer. 1,200 + hours. I'm not the greatest in the world, by any means, but I do know what I'm talking about. I have had EXCELLENT matches and I've had BULLSHIT matches. It happens kiddos. That's life. Literally everywhere.

    You complain too much.

    This game is nerve and instinct.

    Certainly, there are tried and true techniques out there that people use, but guess what? This game is about you. Every Killer/Survivor main worked to get where they are, but some scattered few, get ahead of the game because of their natural inclinations to nerve and instinct.

    If you don't have it? You need to bust your ass until you get there. Don't want to? Think the game singles you out specifically? Then go away. You're annoying. We don't need you.

    Do I get mad at passive aggressive players? Hitting me over and over and over on the hook? Of course I do. I know these keyboard warriors wouldn't do it in person because I'd hook my fingers in their eye socket, so there's that. With that said, it's a game. It's part of the culture. Piece of ######### people are everywhere, kids.

    I have won against incredible killers (Every single one), and I've had my ass handed to me. Oh well.

    EVERY killer has counters. It's YOUR job to figure it out. Read. Watch. Listen. Learn. Pay ######### attention. I play with people who gripe about this perk and that perk..so what? Get over it. Use your head. We who play this know, once we see the killer, we know what we have to do to succeed.

    Will we always make it? No. Do some make it often? Yes. They're using their heads.

    Instinct kids. That's an acquired skill.

    You want it given to you? Go play something else, we don't do that here.

    Not going to hold your hand. You lose because you suck at this, and don't see your checks and counters.

    Your whining gets you nowhere. So quit your bitching and go be amazing.

    Or ######### off.

  • DeliciousFood
    DeliciousFood Member Posts: 464

    You are quite dramatic and writing a lot to essentially say "don't cry baby surv/killer and git gud".


    People 'whined' about infinites, and those got fixed. People 'whined' about nurse being absolutely ridiculous. She got nerfed, and while still ridiculous, at least something was done. People 'whined' about DS, while many, many people said extremely similar platitudes that you are displaying now, and DS eventually got changed (whether for the better or not is up to opinion).


    Maybe people do complain a lot. But it doesn't mean every complaint is invalid. In this case, there are gripes with certain killers that affect all levels of play and that's likely why you're hearing a lot of 'whining'. Some complaints here are indeed just massive crying, but some others are things the devs should certainly look into.

  • notstarboard
    notstarboard Member Posts: 3,903

    I certainly have no problem spotting him when I have line of sight. Most generators have significant obstructions to your vision, though, so the TR is very important for knowing when a killer is nearby. If it's that easy to just spot the tall guy walking to the gen, how is Tinkerer meta?

  • XombieRocker
    XombieRocker Member Posts: 324

    The Killers you mentioned are the counter to all the safe, unmindgameable pallets littering the map.

  • Wesker
    Wesker Member Posts: 339
    edited November 2020

    2 Survivors holding the game hostage by hiding in big maps has still no counters (apart Doctor);

    4 Survivors playing with Discord and OoO have still no counter;

    OoO has still no counter and it destroys the purpose of many stealthy killers;

    The keys have still no counter.

  • GiEcruteak
    GiEcruteak Member Posts: 2

    No, that vernacular doesn't belong to me.

    "Git gud". How silly.

    I mean exactly what I said, nothing more or less. My opinion doesn't matter any more than yours.

    None of it matters. Stop whining.

  • Kbot22
    Kbot22 Member Posts: 96

    Ahh yes holding m1 on gens is very fun gameplay. Let's be honest chases are the most fun part of the game and when killers just ignore your loops it is frustrating considering it is why most people play the game. Hag is pretty much uncountable unless you know before hand it's hag or are in a swf bc solo teammates are trash. Deathslinger can just suck you around loops and hit you. Ph can still just fake his power and puts you in the lose/lose scenerio and I don't need to talk about spirit because she's almost universally considered anti-fun

  • Stealth
    Stealth Member Posts: 123

    So basically you want all killers to have the same counterplay?

  • Hamburgerlar
    Hamburgerlar Member Posts: 58
    edited November 2020

    See when I read the title and then the post I thought to myself "I think he meant to say viable"