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So 100 bugs aside, Victor is OP? your thoughts?
im not listening all the bugs and shadow changes this chapter has brought as id be here all day. but playing against and as the twins i feel Victor is OP but here is why...
So he can pounce faster, this is fine as it allows you to actually hit people at smaller loops. His range is huge, honestly its surprising how far he can go but sure im okay with it However this is the part i have the issue, when victor is killed, destroyed, removed whatever you wish to call it. HE RESPAWNS IN A FEW SECONDS. avoiding his hits is pretty hard especially if the killer is good/patient which id be okay with but the fact he can respawn so fast means you have this very strong and fast killer which nearly 0 cooldown. while people can take him hostage it means the game is a 3v1 making is so much easier to win especially if ruin is up (ruin and undying are fine) but 3 people trying to unhook, chase and do gens with ruin is near impossible. Oh and did i mention if you dont heal victor can slug like a MF, he should despawn after a down or force you to play charlotte for X long before you can swap back.
Two changes: up the cooldown, when downing with victor he remains in location but unplayable for X seconds.
Comments
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I’ve actually found it incredibly difficult to successfully land pounces, even using the cat thingy add on that gives a pounce location indicator.
40/60 land/miss. Survivors seem to be able to dodge it just as easy as Blights rush and Demo’s shred. And I’m punished as severely as Legion missing during FF. I know he respawns quick, but being crushed after one miss feels way too punishing. I’m also having a frustrating time figuring out how to pounce over/through vaults/dropped pallets.
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To be honest I think it’s another killer that is much easier to use with mouse and keyboard. Like Demo’s Shred, as you mentioned - I rarely ever miss on PC but with a controller it’s harder to land. Same with Victor.
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Too early to say even when I'm playing twins so much and wining even more I still can't say if they're really strong or mid tierish relatively weak as most other killers, for now I consider them around higher B tier so pretty good, possibly better once I meet enough good survivros.
Also your changes are horrible, more CD and literally beiing forced to stay stuck in a spot. That's never going to happen.
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Possibly, but I have little trouble getting direct hit accuracy with Clowns bottles. And that’s only improved since the switch to PS5 because of the better performance making it easier to track survivor movements. Go figure. I can get a bullseye with something that travels in an arc, but can’t hit much with something I’m using moving in a straight line.
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I think he's gonna be very difficult to balance once they lower the pounce charge time. He's essntially gonna be a frenzy legion that can down you.
On the other end, in his current form, some objects can neuter his attack.
I really have no idea what they can do with it. He's broken now and he's probably gonna be broken in the future in some way or another.
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just get closer and try taking your time, id say its rare id miss when doing that but im on a new console so maybe better frames? alot easier to hit than the other killers though as you can distance and get full control. but being killed he respawns instantly and hes super fast so you lose very little just take your time to land the hit. as for getting over you need to be about a half a killer lunge away and look up slightly. have the top of the pallet under your fingers, just finished a game as survivor, easy 4k after iv killed victor 10times they just camped and used victor to get hits and downs and respawned him every 5seconds
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they just need to add a longer cooldown, this ######### is stupid strong. camp with charlotte and use victor to pressure, he`s 150% speed and respawns in 5 seconds. every match so far has been a 4k you can camp and pressure meaning you get so many free hits and downs with 0 negative... honestly stronger than nurse now, and im not even joking
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I haven't played as the killer yet, but what I can say is that the Victors that hit me are the ones that go for animation locked hits lr close-range hits. For close range they back up and wait for me to lock myself into a juke like Billy or Huntress. I don't know if that helps, but another thing I've found is that the hitbox is kind of like Blight's lethal Rush - short, but wide.
And I totally agree with the punishment thing, I just stick to a teammate like glue and even if Victor downs one of us the other one punts him out of existence. Well played, have a foot. And I'm usually running WGLF for bloodpoints, so... fair and balanced gameplay.
Side question for anyone reading this, do you have the option to recall Victor when I kidnap him? I've done it twice today and both times Charlotte just ran around being m1 killer.
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It seems like you have to wait for about 45 seconds before you get victor back (if anyone kidnaps him)
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Yeah, but is that confirmed working or is it bugged? Both times I ran around with a screaming undead gremlin on my back for about five minutes and I forgot to ask in the post-game chat
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It might be that you have to call him back manually and some killers just didn't figure that out
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I just tried playing them for the first time and I didn't see an option to recall Victor.
Also, I didn't find the pounces that hard to land even with survivors out of animation lock. Played with one perk, no add-ons & didn't have a hard time.
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I think the penalty for getting Victor killed is simply that you basically lost the chase or at least lost a lot of ground in the chase (unless it happened right by Charlotte).
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Victor is actually insane and i don't know how more people don't see it. He's a demogorgon with a pounce double the range, the ability to go over pallets and windows and low obstacles, 150% movement speed, no terror radious and practically a stealth hunter AND an insanely large hitbox.
I think the only way to balacne him is nerf his movement speed. Currently if your at a pallet as survivor, you drop it you get hit over it, you don't drop it you don't have enough time to make it around cause he rushes you at 150%.
Once you get the hang of it, it's not hard to end even the best survivors career and absolutely annialate them as Victor. Nothing stops you.
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Bugs aside I think the twins are fine. And when people figure out good strategies with them they will seem even stronger.
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I think this Killer's gonna be buggy for a while, but I'm still optimistic that they'll get everything sorted out in time. Victor's fun to use, and switching between the Twins provides a different level of strategy that I'd love to tinker with...
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I disagree with that, i played a good ten games at least as the twins and while i won the majority of them it was simply because survivors don't know when they can crush victor or how to properly play against the twins. I went against a few teams that knew what they were doing and kept up on healing and even didn't bother to take off victor and it made using victor almost always a time loss besides a few times i followed up with a down with him.
Once survivors get used to victor and figure out how to play against him the twins will become way weaker, the pounce is very simple and there isn't much else to it other than poncing over some objects and that isn't good enough as a skill to make them good. All twin players can really improve on is being more accurate/predict better for pouncing and know when to use the power. there simply isn't much else to learn.
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I think it's too early to tell how strong the killer truly is. What I can say is that I won most of my games on day 1 without any slowdowns, but I can do that with any killer.
I think there will be a difference between PC and console players here. I've had no issues landing pounces, but I play on a high DPI mouse and have a lot of experience on Demo and Billy. The concepts are the same.
Victor isn't lethal from a healthy state and he's not immediately available for a follow up, so I really hesitate to say OP.
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assuming they are injured, if a team keeps up with healing and doesn't take victor off you barely can do anything with him. also unless your slugging simply using him to down survivors and then switch to charlotte is a big time loss compared to other killers so you have to down them near charlotte.
also survivors are barely using lockers once they start doing that more even after you can hold them in it will put a stop to your pressure especially if you can't punish them if they get out of the locker.
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Agree. Victor could be in a good place if they just nerfed his speed. Once lockers don't completely counter him, he will be too much. Even now, in situations where you don't have a locker at the ready, you are just heavily struggling to get away from him. Legion is irritating to go against simply because Frenzy is nigh uncounterable in a chase, but at least Legion can't down you in frenzy.
I've only gone up against bad Twins since they were released, but I had the displeasure of playing against good players in the PTB. Victor was extremely oppressive in a lot of spots. The hitbox for him is surprisingly large. A few players set up chases in a really smart way, with Charlotte completely blocking a resource while Victor chased.
We're not even gonna talk about how horrifyingly annoying it is to get camped by them, either. If it comes down to 2 survivors, they don't have a fighting chance against a competent killer- at least not from what I've seen so far. Perhaps better counterplay will be developed; I'm not ruling that out. But Victor is definitely extremely difficult to deal with if you don't have a locker nearby.
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I still think the twins are weak overall. At best they're a pub stomper against ppl who have absolutely no clue what they're doing against the twins. Yes there are strategies the twins can try to use and you're very smart for somehow being the only one to theorycraft these amazing plays. It's just like how I've managed to realize that trapper is truly the most op killer in dbd if he just put traps everywhere. /S
Even the camping potential is overstated. Here's something I really don't understand... If a killer wanted to camp and tunnel but takes extra steps and is weaker at camping/tunneling than other killers then you're really just complaining about camping/tunneling You have a better chance at saving a survivor against a Charlotte or Victor standing afk watching from 10 feet away than just having a killer face camping. It's the PH cage all over again. Oh he's such a strong camping/tunneling killer. He cages survivors and runs across the map straight to them. If PH just face camped it would be way harder to deal with.
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Couldnt be bothered to rewrite this so this is what i wrote on another forum page:
- (If the killer has half a brain they won't allow a survivor to do that. That's like saying obstacles like those prevent billies and bubbas from getting downs.
- You know he can hit ppl in lockers right? That's not stopping him anyday now
- Good twin players will either use him to go for injured ppl or go and down them if they keep hold of him. You also know that if someone has him on them they are out of play in that match for the next 45 seconds right? I more often leave him on ppl rather than recall him because I know that I don't have to worry about what that survivor could be doing and only have to manage 3 others, especially when one of those may be on the ground or hooked. Talk to me once you've spent almost a minute out of play in a game unable to do anything and see if you enjoy it.
- You shouldn't be running crossmap with victor. If you know a survivor is on a gen, get closer to the gen maybe 30 metres, swap to victor for no terror radious, hit the survivor with victor then swap to charlotte and its a pretty easy down.
- That's on you if you miss someone, either you were outplayed or you messed up. Look at the room for improvement.
- Just walk off if you land on terrain? Do you know how busted that would be if he could just climb on top of things and loops? Then you couldn't destroy him at all.
If you think the twins or victor himself are weak, then come 1v1 me with victor and see if you can last more than 20 seconds without being hit by him.
There are so many other strengths and insane points about the twins which I could go into as well. The fact that Victor is a 150%, stealth demogorgon with a lunge that can go over pallets and windows, double the length of his and with an insanely large hitbox bigger than huntress's hatchets. Then theres the ability to camp hooks, slugs and gens with eachother. If you put Victor next to a slug or a gen or a hook, then the survivors can literally not go to those things without the killer spotting them and them taking a hit. Can you imagine the strength if you had sloppy, everyone was injured and victor was near a hook or slug? You literally would not be able to save them. Also victor has great map pressure having no terror radious and a base 150% movement speed.
Stop focusing so hard on their weaknesses, which every killer has and must have btw, and look at their strengths, achknowledge them and play to that ability. )
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This post just demonstrates that someone will always say a killer is somehow OP. The twins are quite likely one of the weakest as worst at the moment. The locker bug is the only saving Grace right now.
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Yea definitely nerfing his speed would be the best thing to do because currently his insane speed can negate pretty much any loops effect.
ATM it seems like all you can do is hope that he misses you so you can kick him or maybe get a pallet stun if possible, although that's hard considering his speed.
Also you can actually hit ppl in lockers if you just pounce at the locker. Idk if that's a bug or intended.
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That's a bug.Not intended
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Oh wow, I didn't know about that past part. In the PTB lockers just completely countered Victor. I haven't used lockers against him since Twins were added to the live game.
Victor has a little bit of that Pyramid Head chase disease- you either get hit, or you get hit. Maybe not as bad as pre-nerf PH, but it really is the speed that makes him so oppressive. You don't get away from him until he misses, and good players don't really miss too easily. Also, a decent amount of the time, Victor misses so far that you can't even reach him in time to kick him. In that case, it's better to run away, but he catches up to you so quickly that it barely matters.
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Yea, I'm hoping time will prove this wrong and he will have counters but I guess we might have to wait and see where the devs go from here. Find it so weird how they design pretty awful killers like PH and then killers like blight who I personally think is one of the funnest and most balacned killers in a long time.
Speaking of PH, have you seen his most recent visual bug? Wondering if other ppl r experiencing it or not.
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Look I agree that ppl shouldnt jump to nerf or buff conclusions and i dont want any nerfs or buffs or anything just yet, I'm just trynna point out some of the strengths cause ppl seme to be ignoring them heavily.
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Ah ok. Actually kinda liked it ngl.
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didn't know that about lockers but it will change within a week so whatever. Also being a total m1 killer for the same duration as a survivor not doing anything isn't equal the survivors have the advantage when the killer has nothing up their sleeve in a chase. Also as said i HIGHLY doubt you are not missing any pounces it's like demo shred your right but by saying that you acknowledge it is dodgeable unless your on top of them and like it or not survivors can still use objects it doesn't matter how good you are don't be unreasonable they will waste your time by running between them/around them. As for focusing on their strengths i know them but the amount of counter play outdoes their strength. also never mentioned terrain i thought that was obvious that you could just walk off i was simply saying how easy it is to crush victor.
I just copied pasted this list but Im going to keep updating it and then post it after a week but this is what i have so far.
- Prioritizing healing your team, victor isn’t very threatening when all he can do is put a survivor in an injured state with oblivious. If you keep up with healing he can’t apply pressure well and when they switch to Charlotte the killer has to go all the way to your location to continue the chase.
- Don’t take off victor instead get away from where you got hit and your team and go do saves if someone is hooked. Keep your eyes open and avoid the direction victor came from as Charlotte probably will come from there. Without victor she has no power for at least 50 seconds.
- Stick together in pairs especially if a survivor is injured, if victor misses a pounce or downs the injured survivor make sure to crush him as he is stunned then heal the survivor. Taking a hit for the injured survivor is an option but it’s better to let them get downed if you have a healing perk active and can pick them up before the killer reaches you. Wglf is a god tier perk at this.
- Use lockers even when victor can hold you in lockers unless charlotte is near you can’t be punished for it. This simply puts a stick in the killer's pressure and Charlotte has to go all the way to you and gets a hit/down/ or grab which is better then getting downed by victor then him going over to latch onto another survivor. (after hotfix)
- Get good at crushing victor if victor misses a pounce from a distance toward you you can easily crush him. If victor misses from a short range/ on top of you don’t go for him unless he hits an object and is close enough to crush him.
- Don’t be afraid to do a gen charlotte on when she is controlling victor, just pay attention to her and when she is being controlled run. You will gain plenty of distance due to her long slow down even with addons to speed up her recovery. Also if you are near and Charlotte is switched to you can run and crush victor before she can switch back if you are close enough.
- If Charlotte blocks a pallet, if she can be stunned, consider doing it. it will force her out of her power but only do it if you're injured and at risk of getting downed. If you get hit by victor and you are healthy just run and gain as much distance as possible. Don’t bother taking off victor it will stun you and isn’t necessary since you can still use vaults/pallets.
- If the killer camps, saves are still possible to pull off unless it is in the basement. The twins are good at this if you let victor have the power to do so, keep yourself healthy, don’t take off victor, let your team do gens. There is no winning unless victor is camping the survivor but if charlotte is camping you can make it so they either commit to the camp or leave since you're holding onto victor. This alone doesn’t make them good, not at all in fact, simply staying away from the basement is enough to take away that power. It's the same situation as hag doing it since she basically does the same thing with her power.
No other killer is like this and whether you agree or not using the power is a time loss if you just injuring a survivor or even downing them, good killers do it in the same amount of time and potentially faster, even if you do down a survivor with victor you have to add the time it takes to get to them with charlotte which is no different than lasting just as long in a chase against a normal killer.
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Another "new killer is op, please nerf"... Just kick victor if you're going to a downed survivor who Is next to viktor.
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I don't really agree this killer has to many gimicks and it's pretty difficult
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YES basically if you injure all survivors the twins are just a 150 speed killer and can patrol the map insanely fast looking for survivors who may be healing, which would also be busted if nurses worked on victor (I don't actually own them yet)
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It hasn't been two full days yet nobody knows if Victor is overpowered.
Give it some time figure out some counterplay
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Not even close..the killer is too slow at everything
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The Twins have potential, but it’s difficult to say how much because of the glitches. Half the time when I unleash Victor he seems to get stuck in place. Just discovered at the end of the last match that you can leap out of it, but still, it shouldn’t be happening. The controls are a bit wonky, and honestly the wait time between switching between characters is way too long. It should really be as simple as a click like a split screen. Also it should be as easy to see Victor on someone as it is to see him just standing there. It should feel a lot more like you’re really controlling two different people and not just using a weapon of some sort.
Also, when Victor is on someone they’re not supposed to be able to do anything, not even escape. However, people are still throwing down pallets and what’s the point of not allowing people to escape if they can just lean into the barred exit gate until you come along and hit them, at which point they can crawl out? They should make it so that at least ten seconds elapses before they can do that otherwise the ability is worthless. Or maybe make it so you can grab them like an interupting a gen repair or pallet jump. Also, give them skill checks while victor is latched on. Do these things and maybe we’ve got something. Maybe.
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That is a pretty accurate title you got there
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Only if you hit every single pounce, just like nurse is op if she hits every single blink. But if you don't and not making it as it can be on paper he's balanced. Missed pounces followed by a kick to the face are pretty devastating in terms of pressure. You just lost all that distance and survivor already rotated if he's smart. Looping him around long walls with pallets down or jungle gyms works great against him.
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Strong killer, need to reduce the hostage time
Their slug potential is almost Oni level
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